Network Rail looking at how it could bring in 24 hour train service

[Railwaysceptic]

What tax is this that car drivers are 'required' to pay to spend on the roads?

Most cars on the road attract VED based on CO2 emissions - with electric and other ultra-low emissions cars and motorbikes paying nothing. Many other low-emission cars and motorbikes pay a nominal £20 or £30. Cycles don't emit CO2.

Some cars and motorbikes on the road pay fuel duty. Cycles don't use fuel, that's provided by the rider.

Electric car drivers will pay VAT at 5% on the electricity purchased to power the car. But that can be negated by using some of the many free charging points to be found. Cyclists will pay VAT on chips and bacon butties purchased to power their ride home from work.

So if you drive an electric car; you pay no VED, you no fuel duty and can pay no VAT on your free fuel. And in any event; VED, fuel duty and VAT are not ringfenced for spending on roads.

Most motorists do not drive all-electric cars.

 

[BluePenguin]

Maybe not throughout the night, but later services from say London Euston up the WCML would be popular so people could actually stay in the capital into the evening and be able to travel home by train instead of having to pay for expensive overnight accommodation. It's been crazy that it's been impossible for people living in the North West and further north not to be able to use the train to see football matches at Wembley for example.

I agree the WCML should have more services at night. Wembly is very very far away from the North West. It feels unreasonable to me to add this to the argument for. Looking at it from the other perspective how many people from the South would travel to Manchester to watch the football and back in a day? 5 hours return journey with an early start.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I agree the WCML should have more services at night. Wembly is very very far away from the North West. It feels unreasonable to me to add this to the argument for. Looking at it from the other perspective how many people from the South would travel to Manchester to watch the football and back in a day? 5 hours return journey with an early start.

The issue is primarily on Saturdays and for Liverpool and Preston onwards - there is a 2300 to Manchester on weekdays and it's not very busy.

I'd almost guess that it's the kind of business the railway doesn't want...

 

[Clip]

Well trains from Reading skip certain stations on Friday and Saturday nights and it isn't to speed up the journey. Is that poor provision?

I wasnt talking about skip stopping stations so ive no idea what you are on about

 

[Clip]

In that case, see my above post.

The Whitby line is one which has both need and can be rectified to a reasonable cost.

but then where would the money come from for the overly large train shed that you think boro should have?

But its good to see the old north v south posts come out in force again which is so far off topic it pretty much hurts my eyes reading it again for the umpteenth time

 

[infobleep]

Would there be demand for national rail services to call 24 hours to railway stations which serve airports?

First Great Western ran overnight buses from Reading to Gatwixk Airport. They eventually stopped doing that which I guess shows the level of demand.

Whether with an increased popularity of the railways it won't .e viable now, I wouldn't know.

They did reduce the Sunday frequency and then increase it again last December, so there is evidence of increased popularity - assuming the decrease was actually to do with lack of custom.

 

[Deerfold]

Does the GWR Thames Valley and TPE really count as night services when they're so sporadic and infrequent? The only TOC who I know operate an actual night service is ThamesLink doing the 2tph from Bedford to Three Bridges daily and the London Overground from Highbury to New Cross Gate.

Until 2001 or 2002 the GWR services ran hourly throughout the night (except Saturday night). They certainly seemed to be busy on a Friday night. I used to catch them to Slough or Maidenhead, though I lived between Burnham and Taplow, as it saved a small fortune on a taxi from central London.

 

[SamYeager]

What tax is this that car drivers are 'required' to pay to spend on the roads?

Most cars on the road attract VED based on CO2 emissions - with electric and other ultra-low emissions cars and motorbikes paying nothing. Many other low-emission cars and motorbikes pay a nominal £20 or £30. Cycles don't emit CO2.

Some cars and motorbikes on the road pay fuel duty. Cycles don't use fuel, that's provided by the rider.

Electric car drivers will pay VAT at 5% on the electricity purchased to power the car. But that can be negated by using some of the many free charging points to be found. Cyclists will pay VAT on chips and bacon butties purchased to power their ride home from work.

So if you drive an electric car; you pay no VED, you no fuel duty and can pay no VAT on your free fuel. And in any event; VED, fuel duty and VAT are not ringfenced for spending on roads.

VED based on CO2 emissions is merely the latest method of deciding how much VED someone has to pay. Because too many people started getting low emissions cars the nominal rate of £20 no longer exists for new cars but is now a minimum of £140 per annum. It's pretty much guaranteed that once the amount of electric cars rises above a certain level then VED rates will change again to encompass electric cars. In all cases a majority of car drivers will always be "required" to pay VED unless the government comes up with some new way of raising that income.

 

[BluePenguin]

In all cases a majority of car drivers will always be "required" to pay VED unless the government comes up with some new way of raising that income.

You're probably right. Would you say that buying an electric car to avoid paying this for the foreseeable future is a good move then?

 

[transmanche]

Most motorists do not drive all-electric cars.

And?
.

 

[transmanche]

Looking at it from the other perspective how many people from the South would travel to Manchester to watch the football and back in a day? 5 hours return journey with an early start.

About 50% of the 'home' supporters at Old Trafford?

 

[700007]

Until 2001 or 2002 the GWR services ran hourly throughout the night (except Saturday night). They certainly seemed to be busy on a Friday night. I used to catch them to Slough or Maidenhead, though I lived between Burnham and Taplow, as it saved a small fortune on a taxi from central London.

I definitely can see the demand for it without a doubt. The whole service to Reading is within the London commuter belt and opening up that line provides great travel opportunities. It's something they could consider with the Elizabeth line and make it part of the 'night tube' (even though it isn't part of the tube). It'd be difficult however in the sense that the Central line which is already part of the night tube operates a similar route between Ealing Broadway and Stratford and I can't imagine TfL want to have duplicates running throughout the night where necessary.

They could do a Liverpool Street to Shenfield and Paddington to Heathrow Airport / Reading split with passengers changing at Ealing Broadway onto the Central line to Liverpool Street and then back on the Elizabeth line.

 

[yorksrob]

but then where would the money come from for the overly large train shed that you think boro should have?

But its good to see the old north v south posts come out in force again which is so far off topic it pretty much hurts my eyes reading it again for the umpteenth time

I was thinking more of the operational service in this case.

The trainshed was part of a discussion concerning the regeneration of the station site. I've already said on that thread that the additional East facing bay should take priority over any redevelopment plans because of its potential for the enhancement of the service.

 

[A0]

I'd be nice if they could run a service from (say) Birmingham to Stansted Airport overnight (and the other way)...

Currently, here in Peterborough:-

The last trains on the Stansted to Birmingham route leave at roughly the same time (2021 Stansted & 2025 B'ham) and then that's it until (0519 from B'ham & 0516 from Stansted)

Unless of course, you want to travel via London!!!

It's a bit of a trek, if you've got either a early/late flight @ Stansted!!!!

NR website says there is a 21:16 to Stansted from Peterboro?

 

[Deerfold]

NR website says there is a 21:16 to Stansted from Peterboro?

That's the 1922 from Birmingham New Street. The train at 2025 from Birmingham only gets as far as Cambridge - though it's possible to leave BHM at 2110 to get to Stansted, but it involves 2 changes.

 

[Clip]

I was thinking more of the operational service in this case.

The trainshed was part of a discussion concerning the regeneration of the station site. I've already said on that thread that the additional East facing bay should take priority over any redevelopment plans because of its potential for the enhancement of the service.

Ahh so the railways money tree must come into effect then for something that is not necessary no matter how many times you say it should have one - just waste that money on a trainshed where it could be used elsewhere - Brilliant idea.

 

[yorksrob]

Ahh so the railways money tree must come into effect then for something that is not necessary no matter how many times you say it should have one - just waste that money on a trainshed where it could be used elsewhere - Brilliant idea.

I'm sure you're deliberately obfuscating, however someone clearly has funding to tart up Middlesbrough station. Some of this is likely to be from NR, a lot is probably from elsewhere, however that funding seems to be primarily earmarked to improve the passenger environment at Middlesborough station. I personally don't see how building a train shed is any more a 'waste of money' than putting glass frontages everywhere, however I accept that there will be differences of opinion on that.

The operational effectiveness of the station should take precedence over any aesthetic improvement of the station building, and since reinstating a bay platform has the ability to transform a currently inadequate train service in a way that aesthetic improvements won't, it should obviously be top priority for NR's funding over aesthetic improvements. That may not be the case for other sources of funding, but Middlesbrough council must surely have an interest in a fit for purpose Whitby service as well.

 

[A0]

That's the 1922 from Birmingham New Street. The train at 2025 from Birmingham only gets as far as Cambridge - though it's possible to leave BHM at 2110 to get to Stansted, but it involves 2 changes.

The OP was commenting that from a Peterboro perspective the last train to Stansted was 20.21 - that's not correct.

 

[Deerfold]

The OP was commenting that from a Peterboro perspective the last train to Stansted was 20.21 - that's not correct.

Indeed.

 

[Clip]

I'm sure you're deliberately obfuscating, however someone clearly has funding to tart up Middlesbrough station. Some of this is likely to be from NR, a lot is probably from elsewhere, however that funding seems to be primarily earmarked to improve the passenger environment at Middlesborough station. I personally don't see how building a train shed is any more a 'waste of money' than putting glass frontages everywhere, however I accept that there will be differences of opinion on that.

The operational effectiveness of the station should take precedence over any aesthetic improvement of the station building, and since reinstating a bay platform has the ability to transform a currently inadequate train service in a way that aesthetic improvements won't, it should obviously be top priority for NR's funding over aesthetic improvements. That may not be the case for other sources of funding, but Middlesbrough council must surely have an interest in a fit for purpose Whitby service as well.

Whilst I agree a more improved whitby service would be the beat use of money we have to admit that boros still looks awful and certainly now out of place with the college down the road and anything to may it look nice and welcoming is also a good use of the money as it should bring in more development around there where as a big horrid looking trainshed would bring nothing to the place and is a far bigger waste than tarting up the outside

 

[yorksrob]

Whilst I agree a more improved whitby service would be the beat use of money we have to admit that boros still looks awful and certainly now out of place with the college down the road and anything to may it look nice and welcoming is also a good use of the money as it should bring in more development around there where as a big horrid looking trainshed would bring nothing to the place and is a far bigger waste than tarting up the outside

I don't see how you can say that Middlesbrough looks awful. Architecturally it's a fine looking building, albeit one that looks as though it needs some repairs.

Infact, the only thing that looks out of place on it are the 1950's style platform canopies.

Anyway, it's a joke having a thread about a "24 hour" railway given that NR can't even manage a train back from Leeds to Wakefield at 23:30.

 

[route101]

Glasgow to Edinburgh could sustain a hourly service during the night i feel .