Network Rail industrial action suspended

[Sleepy]

Unless TOCs are going to make a revised offer too this will just mean limited routes that do operate can do so for longer hours on strike days. Don't know how many office bods will be thrilled to be forced into Saturday working as guards or dispatchers on those TOCs that attempt to ramp up services.

 

[Bald Rick]

Unless TOCs are going to make a revised offer too this will just mean limited routes that do operate can do so for longer hours on strike days. Don't know how many office bods will be thrilled to be forced into Saturday working as guards or dispatchers on those TOCs that attempt to ramp up services.

But those TOCs who aren’t involved in the strike action - who between them carry 40-50% of all passengers on the network - will run a normal service. And the freight industry can start to recover some significant losses.

 

[Watershed]

Unless TOCs are going to make a revised offer too this will just mean limited routes that do operate can do so for longer hours on strike days. Don't know how many office bods will be thrilled to be forced into Saturday working as guards or dispatchers on those TOCs that attempt to ramp up services.

I doubt any TOCs will seek to run more services on the upcoming round of strike days, unless the RMT TOC strikes are pulled (and even then, there is a very small window of opportunity for those timetables to now be reverted).

It's possible there might be a slightly longer service on future RMT TOC strike dates, if the NR strike dates aren't reinstated following the new deal being rejected. But the primary beneficiary of the NR strikes being pulled is those operators that aren't in dispute - the OAOs, FOCs and non-DfT controlled TOCs.

 

[Bald Rick]

It's possible there might be a slightly longer service on future RMT TOC strike dates, if the NR strike dates aren't reinstated following the new deal being rejected. But the primary beneficiary of the NR strikes being pulled is those operators that aren't in dispute - the OAOs, FOCs and non-DfT controlled TOCs.

The NR strike date can’t be reinstated, it’s too late. The first week of Action Short of a Strike is also timed out now. The second and future weeks could, but the clock is ticking. I can’t imagine the referendum on the deal will be done before the end of next week, and that puts any future announced action back to April.

But lets Hope the membership accepts.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Mar 2023 ==

I doubt any TOCs will seek to run more services on the upcoming round of strike days

As above, the TOCs not involved in the dispute will almost certainly revert to a full service.

 

[Watershed]

The NR strike date can’t be reinstated, it’s too late. The first week of Action Short of a Strike is also timed out now.

As above, the TOCs not involved in the dispute will almost certainly revert to a full service.

On both fronts, that is what I meant but evidently didn't say very clearly!

 

[CapabilityB]

Equates to an extra £340 which isn't good enough quite frankly.

The union should have waited until next week to decide so that the train service couldn't be reinstated in time. In addition I was confident the overtime ban was going to cause total chaos. I will be voting no if it's as speculated above. Had my fill of the company now and looking for the exit like many others

If you're looking for the exit then why are you voting given it won't impact you?

 

[Annetts key]

email from Network Rail to employees (hence no hyperlink):

Message from Pauline Holroyd
Tuesday 7 March

General grades, bands 5-8

This email is being shared with all employees

Dear colleagues,

We have had further discussions with the RMT to resolve the dispute for general grades and bands 5-8, and this has resulted in a revised offer.

Our offer was discussed at a meeting of the RMT Executive Committee earlier today and they have confirmed that they are suspending Network Rail industrial action and intend to put this offer out to their members to vote in a referendum. More information will be shared in the coming days.

We are relieved for our people, passengers and freight customers that industrial action in Network Rail has now been suspended and that colleagues will have the opportunity to vote on our offer.

Thanks,

Pauline Holroyd

Group HR Director, Network Rail

 

[Sleepy]

But those TOCs who aren’t involved in the strike action - who between them carry 40-50% of all passengers on the network - will run a normal service. And the freight industry can start to recover some significant losses.

Please can you advise which TOCs aren't involved in the action ? I thought only open access companies plus Scotland & Wales aren't involved ?

 

[Snow1964]

Is bringing a pay increase forward by a few months which amounts to a £340 lump sum really enough to buy out the changes to terms and conditions for maintenance workers that have been discussed before?

Each individual will see it differently

Some might see it as better than losing more money continuing action, which isn't really getting anywhere (the extra concessions are minuscule in big scheme of things).

Others might see it as just deferring the inevitable, the staffing modernisation will not go away permanently

Some will just move forward and will look at what is likely to happen and replan their career path to something works for them.

Others will think we are still in 1970s and 1980s and Government will capitulate (even though no sign of that yet) so carrying on action is way forward.

Clearly sensible to let individual members vote.

 

[evotista]

Please can you advise which TOCs aren't involved in the action ? I thought only open access companies plus Scotland & Wales aren't involved ?

The non-strike TOCs (beyond TfW, Scotrail and the OAOs) I can think of are - MTR (Elizabeth line) .... Arriva Rail London (London overground) and Merseyrail.

 

[Bald Rick]

Please can you advise which TOCs aren't involved in the action ? I thought only open access companies plus Scotland & Wales aren't involved ?

Elizabeth Line
Arriva Rail London
Merseyrail
Scotrail
TfW
Caledonian Sleeper
all the open Access

 

[YorkshireBear]

Elizabeth Line
Arriva Rail London
Merseyrail
Scotrail
TfW
Caledonian Sleeper
all the open Access

Open access operators will be making a bob or two!

 

[yorksrob]

Elizabeth Line
Arriva Rail London
Merseyrail
Scotrail
TfW
Caledonian Sleeper
all the open Access

Fat lot of use around here then, as usual.

 

[weeklycommuter]

Elizabeth Line
Arriva Rail London
Merseyrail
Scotrail
TfW
Caledonian Sleeper
all the open Access

GTR, Greater Anglia, c2c and Southeastern are all involved but the trains are all driver controlled and in most cases one person (driver) operation so not sure how effective RMT industrial action would be at these train operators. I do not know if any stations run by these operators would have to close, only the RMT will be involved, other unions are not involved. SWR trains all have guards but SWR still operated many services on previous RMT strike days.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Mar 2023 ==

Elizabeth Line
Arriva Rail London
Merseyrail
Scotrail
TfW
Caledonian Sleeper
all the open Access

I do not think the Island Line (Isle of Wight) is involved in the RMT action as for industrial action it is separate to SWR

 

[chris11256]

In the case of c2c the most that normally happens is 12 carriage trains not stopping at Limehouse depending on staffing. Otherwise it's pretty much a normal service.

 

[43066]

Greater Anglia, c2c and Southeastern are all involved but the trains are all driver controlled

GA and SE aren’t all driver controlled by any means.

 

[LAX54]

And yet the TOCs are not allowed a vote on their offer…make it make sense

They are not part of this dispute, theirs is seperate, just running at the same / similar times

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Mar 2023 ==

Equates to an extra £340 which isn't good enough quite frankly.

The union should have waited until next week to decide so that the train service couldn't be reinstated in time. In addition I was confident the overtime ban was going to cause total chaos. I will be voting no if it's as speculated above. Had my fill of the company now and looking for the exit like many others

Have the details been released, or is that guesswork, I have seen two variations !

 

[Bald Rick]

GTR, Greater Anglia, c2c and Southeastern are all involved but the trains are all driver controlled and in most cases one person (driver) operation so not sure how effective RMT industrial action would be at these train operators.

Station staff are an issue, especially for Southeastern who have several hundred required for dispatch.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Mar 2023 ==

Have the details been released, or is that guesswork, I have seen two variations !

Details being published today.

 

[LAX54]

Each individual will see it differently

Some might see it as better than losing more money continuing action, which isn't really getting anywhere (the extra concessions are minuscule in big scheme of things).

Others might see it as just deferring the inevitable, the staffing modernisation will not go away permanently

Some will just move forward and will look at what is likely to happen and replan their career path to something works for them.

Others will think we are still in 1970s and 1980s and Government will capitulate (even though no sign of that yet) so carrying on action is way forward.

Clearly sensible to let individual members vote.

There is a gathering wave, that is getting bigger by the week, of people wanting the RMT to accept the offer, know a couple of really long term RMT members, who left after the last 'vote' thhat they saw as a bit selective in how it was viewd by the Union

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Mar 2023 ==

The NR strike date can’t be reinstated, it’s too late. The first week of Action Short of a Strike is also timed out now. The second and future weeks could, but the clock is ticking. I can’t imagine the referendum on the deal will be done before the end of next week, and that puts any future announced action back to April.

But lets Hope the membership accepts.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Mar 2023 ==



As above, the TOCs not involved in the dispute will almost certainly revert to a full service.

Think in our local area, well its not that local ! If its put to a vote, it will be almost a 100% acceptance

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Mar 2023 ==

Really? Major London boxes closing on Sundays and much of the north non-passenger all week?

NR now in a nice tight spot as they havent offered the strike plan so will need to provide some TOC KRS plans on top of other TOC WTTs...

It would only be extra Sundays that are not worked, and a big PSB/IECC/ROC can still run normally with a few staff down, any staff asking for the Sunday off, woukd just get declined, and they would have to work it (another reason to get Sunday within the working week)

 

[Sleepy]

LAX54 I take it you're talking about Network Rail people that want to accept the offer ?

 

[Annetts key]

LAX54 I take it you're talking about Network Rail people that want to accept the offer ?

I’m assuming they mean Network Rail operations staff.

The Network Rail maintenance staff still want big changes to the modernising maintenance plans that the company are trying to force in.

 

[fgwrich]

I do not think the Island Line (Isle of Wight) is involved in the RMT action as for industrial action it is separate to SWR

Yes, Island Line seems to sometimes do the opposite - during the main strikes last year, they were running a normal ish service (not hard for them). During the later strikes in the year and earlier this year, SWR ran a fairly normal service while Island Line were on strike.

 

[alxndr]

From what I've been hearing there's a bit of a geographical split in the NR maintenance staff as to whether to accept it or not. In Scotland it's still strong against it, but we're hearing reports from down south that people are going back to work. Similarly I'm hearing people down south talk about a north/south divide so there might be some truth in that.

I think modernising maintenance is universally disliked, but there's a lot of confusion over whether voting against the paydeal will do anything to stop modernising maintenance. It's got very muddied between the two issues with a lot of poor communication over the past year from both sides.

 

[Mag_seven]

What is the issue with "modernising maintenance"? Is it purely a matter of less staff or is there more to it?

 

[387star]

What is the issue with "modernising maintenance"? Is it purely a matter of less staff or is there more to it?

My understanding is shifts can be changed at short notice with the possibility of working longer during disruption and there will be a maximising of anti-social shifts. Furthermore job roles will be merged with staff being forced to undertake additional duties

 

[LAX54]

LAX54 I take it you're talking about Network Rail people that want to accept the offer ?

Yes, Ops Staff AND Maintaiance staff some of which also want to settle

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Mar 2023 ==

From what I've been hearing there's a bit of a geographical split in the NR maintenance staff as to whether to accept it or not. In Scotland it's still strong against it, but we're hearing reports from down south that people are going back to work. Similarly I'm hearing people down south talk about a north/south divide so there might be some truth in that.

I think modernising maintenance is universally disliked, but there's a lot of confusion over whether voting against the paydeal will do anything to stop modernising maintenance. It's got very muddied between the two issues with a lot of poor communication over the past year from both sides.

It was also a North / South divide in 89/90 Sundays in the working week was a big issue, sadly we missed the boat on that, and are lumbered with the unsatisfactory rule we have now.

 

[Dan G]

What happened to the RMT demand for an unconditional pay offer?

I can only think that the RMT leadership realised that their "consultation" had not given them objective information, and faced with shrinking desire among the membership to carry on, have realised a proper vote is needed. A small fiddle with the offer gives them a (marginally) face-saving opportunity.

And yet the TOCs are not allowed a vote on their offer…make it make sense

Quite!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Mar 2023 ==

My understanding is shifts can be changed at short notice with the possibility of working longer during disruption and there will be a maximising of anti-social shifts. Furthermore job roles will be merged with staff being forced to undertake additional duties

How short is short? What indications of the circumstances and frequently this might have been given?

From what I have read around merging some roles, smaller more flexible teams, those parts all seem very sensible.

 

[DDB]

Has the timings of ballot been announced yet and therefore when a result one way or the other might be known?

 

[PM77]

How short is short? What indications of the circumstances and frequently this might have been given?

48h notice for "business needs". No limit to the maximum amount of shifts that could be changed. It's 2h either way so you could be starting earlier or finishing later

 

[Sleepy]

If RDG & DfT took the "zero hours" t&c changes out of the TOC offer it would be very likely be approved by members, some semblance of work life balance is needed with the anti-social start and finish times on the railway. Recruitment is becoming challenging for many lower paid roles in same way hospitality industry has found after Covid.