• Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Network Rail confirmed plans for CP5 and aspirations for CP6

Status
Not open for further replies.

northwichcat

Veteran Member
Joined
23 Jan 2009
Messages
32,692
Location
Northwich
Network Rail have today announced their CP5 plans in the form of a glossy brochure and website which doesn't give a lot of detail and says things we were expecting anyway. http://betterrailway.co.uk/

However, they do also state potential plans for 'beyond 2019' which are as follows:

Network Rail said:
London-

London needs a healthy, effective railway – for our passengers, business and the economy. Demand for rail transport – both passenger and freight – continues to rise dramatically. But major investments can take years to deliver. We must plan now for the railway we will need in the future.

That’s led us to change the way we plan the network, introducing a new Long Term Planning Process. For the first time we’re starting with our aspirations. What would be the ideal railway?

In the first stages of planning we’re thinking about the best possible output, unconstrained by the existing network, current service patterns or even what is feasible or affordable. The second stage of the planning process then takes these aspirations and, on a route by route basis looks at what is possible and offers the best value for money.

Looking at the wider economic role of rail better enables us to identify where step change improvements could deliver significant benefits for the country.


Yorkshire/North East/East Midlands -

Fundamental to that study will be the need for further improvements to journey times and capacity between our major towns and cities. Forecasts show the increase in peak passenger demand could be as high as 62 per cent into Leeds and 56 per cent into both Newcastle and Sheffield by 2029. All day passenger demand by 2029 is forecast to increase by 38 per cent to 52 per cent between Leeds/Manchester/Sheffield.

Our priorities include further electrification links, for example between:

Hull and Selby
Harrogate and York
Bletchley and Bedford
Completing an electrified route through to Oxford

The case for extending the East-West link, connecting to Cambridge, Oxford and Milton Keynes.

Integrating the opportunities offered by HS2 to benefit passengers and freight on both networks.

And of course continuing an unremitting focus on safety and performance – improving the railway – every day


North West/West Midlands -

Birmingham will have a railway station it can be proud of that is equipped to handle future passenger growth. The redevelopment will also play a major role in the regeneration of Birmingham city centre and create hundreds of new jobs. The western section of East West Rail will be complete, opening up new journey and economic opportunities for Bedfordshire, Buckinghamshire, Oxfordshire and beyond.

The WCML will be approaching capacity, with a few remaining pinch points along the route. Some relief will be provided by the project at Norton Bridge and Stafford, and there is also some potential to further lengthen trains.By the mid 2020′s the line would be full.

HS2 will transform services on existing lines by boosting commuter capacity, providing more space for freight and creating huge opportunities for connectivity and growth. It also has significant benefits, especially in its second phase, by improving connectivity between several major cities in the UK.

A study undertaken for the Department for Transport estimated an increase in economic output of £8bn – 15bn per year. There are limited alternatives to HS2. Any incremental work to provide enhancement in capacity would be highly disruptive as the WCML is already Europe’s busiest mixed use railway. Experience tells us that disruption would be significant, with impacts not only on the railway, but also to the economies of the West Midlands and the North West.

The timetable for services using HS2 and WCML post 2026 will be determined much closer to the time – but now is the time for detailed consultation and study of a range of options and possible solutions for train services post 2026.


Scotland -

With passenger numbers predicted to continue to grow strongly in the years ahead, increasing capacity and connectivity will continue to be a key priority across Scotland.

Schemes already under consideration for CP6 include:

Further enhancement of the Aberdeen- Inverness and Highland main line routes to improve infrastructure, capacity and journey times
Continued expansion of electrification across the network in Scotland, building on EGIP
Capacity enhancements at Scotland’s busiest station, Glasgow Central.

And of course continuing an unremitting focus on safety and performance – improving the railway – every day.


Wales -

After many years of underinvestment in the railway, the last 10 years have seen much work carried out to reverse the symptoms of neglect.

We’re continuing that process, but we’re looking beyond 2019, planning the right investments so that our railway runs better and safer in the years to come.

This investment has helped drive demand for rail travel and we forecast that this will continue to grow strongly over the next 30 years.

The Long Term Planning Process (LTPP) is led by Network Rail in close collaboration with our train and freight customers, government and other funders. This involves assessing future demand, identifying gaps where additional capacity or capability will be required, identifying efficient and affordable solutions and, finally, presenting these solutions as choices for funders.

The LTPP will inform the future direction of the railway in Wales and we are completing the activity by summer 2015 so that it can inform the specification of the next Wales and Borders franchise.

Western -

By the end of the decade, we want to significantly transform the mainline to become the most advanced intercity railway in Britain. We’ve an investment programme currently worth £6bn to help us achieve that ambition.

This is only a highlight of our plan for the Western route. All of this work will be taking place around the train timetable, the National Stations Improvement Programme and the maintenance and track renewals that we need to do to keep Britain moving.

The Western route is privileged as it enjoys a railway built by one of the finest engineers in the world. We are still relying on Brunel’s engineering feat nearly 180 years later but much has changed, especially the way we use the railway. Looking into the future we saw a phenomenal growth in passenger numbers and therefore a congested
Western route. Here in this future lies an enormous challenge but mostly, an exciting opportunity for Western route and to make Brunel’s masterpieces even bigger and better.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

Stats

Member
Joined
27 Sep 2009
Messages
943
Network Rail have today announced their CP5 plans in the form of a glossy brochure and website which doesn't give a lot of detail
The detail is in the Enhancement Delivery Plan in the usual place on their website: http://www.networkrail.co.uk/publications/delivery-plans/control-period-5/cp5-delivery-plan/
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Sheffield to ECML electrification in included as part of the Electric Spine development. Was that there before?

A number of the schemes in the Electric Spine scheme give an objective of "It is also an important step towards enabling ‘Cross Country’ passenger services and freight operating electrically in the future"

Is this the first time electrifying the XC route has been mentioned as an aspiration in an official document?
 

LNW-GW Joint

Veteran Member
Joined
22 Feb 2011
Messages
21,951
Location
Mold, Clwyd
The detail is in the Enhancement Delivery Plan in the usual place on their website: http://www.networkrail.co.uk/publications/delivery-plans/control-period-5/cp5-delivery-plan/

Well spotted.
Further retreat of the Electric Spine project (Nuneaton-Oxford, Reading-Southampton) - no delivery milestones, just a development project.
Guide Bridge-Stalybridge completion is now Dec 2018.
NW phase 4 (Euxton-Manchester, Nov 2014) starts before phase 3 (Preston-Blackpool, Dec 2014).
GW electrification to Bristol via Bath is now May 2017 (via Badminton Dec 2016).
Thames Valley branches also Dec 2017.
GOBLIN electrification has crept in with a Dec 2018 completion date.
MML electrification reaches Sheffield in Dec 2020 and the ECML in June 2021.
 

swt_passenger

Veteran Member
Joined
7 Apr 2010
Messages
34,318
Ah they've updated it now. It will still the draft plans from last year earlier.

It only got added mid afternoon, I think. Now that detailed 2014 - 2019 info is available and being discussed, could I suggest that you amend the thread title? That will possibly avoid someone else starting another thread about the 2014 onward period...
 

WatcherZero

Established Member
Joined
25 Feb 2010
Messages
10,272
We are currently discussing the output, scope and milestones of a number of additional projects with DfT. As these requirements are agreed we will seek to change control the projects into our plan. These projects include:
 Ely – Soham double tracking;
 Syston – Stoke gauge enhancements;
 Windermere branch electrification;
 Wigan – Bolton electrification; and
 Stratford station (development only).

Seems still a few things not programmed in as of March this year. North West platform lengthening project has no completion date either.
 

LNW-GW Joint

Veteran Member
Joined
22 Feb 2011
Messages
21,951
Location
Mold, Clwyd
This says it all about NR's attitude to the Electric Spine:

Electric Spine: DfT has expressed concern that the description of the Electric Spine in the
Enhancements Delivery Plan as a development programme is inconsistent with the HLOS.
Network Rail has, through discussions with DfT, prioritised some elements of the Electric
Spine works for delivery in CP5, whilst stating that a number of elements would undergo
development work in CP5 to inform delivery in CP6. This was deemed to be a more
deliverable scope of works. In its response, DfT has reiterated its original HLOS
requirement for full delivery in CP5. We are working with DfT and ORR to understand the
remit for the Electric Spine works and will then need to assess the deliverability of the
specification. We will then update the definition of the Electric Spine if necessary, through
the change control process.

NR basically don't want to do it, especially the DC-AC conversion west of Basingstoke.
They have prioritised their pet project (MML) and extended it to the ECML.
East-West Oxford-Bletchley is also OK, as new construction.
But Bletchley-Bedford and Nuneaton-Leamington seem to be troublesome. 
And now we find the sole shareholder and funder says (twice): "Do it, in CP5 please".
Should be fun watching the fallout.
 
Last edited:

Cletus

Established Member
Joined
11 Dec 2010
Messages
2,399
Location
Dover
In the BBC South East news report just on, it reported on a possible upgrade of the Ashford to Hastings line to "High Speed" and then direct trains to "Kings Cross", also some sort of undertaking from a transport minister.

This is being pushed by the local MP, http://amberrudd.co.uk/rail/
 

yorksrob

Veteran Member
Joined
6 Aug 2009
Messages
44,439
Location
Yorks
This says it all about NR's attitude to the Electric Spine:



NR basically don't want to do it, especially the DC-AC conversion west of Basingstoke.
They have prioritised their pet project (MML) and extended it to the ECML.
East-West Oxford-Bletchley is also OK, as new construction.
But Bletchley-Bedford and Nuneaton-Leamington seem to be troublesome. 
And now we find the sole shareholder and funder says (twice): "Do it, in CP5 please".
Should be fun watching the fallout.

Perhaps NR have concluded that conversion of the whole SR isn't worthwhile, making conversion west of Basingstoke less desireable.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
In the BBC South East news report just on, it reported on a possible upgrade of the Ashford to Hastings line to "High Speed" and then direct trains to "Kings Cross", also some sort of undertaking from a transport minister.

This is being pushed by the local MP, http://amberrudd.co.uk/rail/

Good to see the local politicians taking a positive interest in rail. Would seem strange travelling high speed on Marshlink where thumpers once plied their trade !
 

user15681

Established Member
Joined
3 Jun 2012
Messages
1,354
In the BBC South East news report just on, it reported on a possible upgrade of the Ashford to Hastings line to "High Speed" and then direct trains to "Kings Cross", also some sort of undertaking from a transport minister.

This is being pushed by the local MP, http://amberrudd.co.uk/rail/

I saw this too, but what I read into it was not that there was a possible HS1 to Hastings (hence suggesting one is to come) but that an upgrade would be possible (hence suggesting it isn't coming, but would be possible if the benefits outweighed cost).
 

Haydn1971

Established Member
Joined
11 Dec 2012
Messages
2,101
Location
Sheffield
Hmm... Interesting ETCS on Class 91, platforms on MML To accommodate 10x 26m carriages (SEP), Sheffield to Doncaster and South Kirby to Swinton electrified... Didn't see Rotherham mentioned though
 

Chris125

Established Member
Joined
12 Nov 2009
Messages
3,272
Location
Isle of Wight
Good to see that NR are continuing to develop Carstairs remodelling and South Sub electrification:

In addition to the projects contained in the table above, Network Rail is currently progressing the development of two projects contained in the Strategic Business Plan not specifically required to deliver the HLOS or included in the Final Determination. However, Carstairs Junction remodel and the Edinburgh Suburban Electrification projects will contribute to improving journey times and reducing carbon emissions as required by the Scottish Ministers HLOS and are therefore subject to further discussions with funders to determine how they will be funded for implementation in CP5.

Chris
 

Haydn1971

Established Member
Joined
11 Dec 2012
Messages
2,101
Location
Sheffield
Also interesting about South and West Yorkshire Cross Pennine lengthing - mention of provision for 8x 23m units through Huddersfield
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Sorry... More, MML platform lengthening to include

- 12x Class 377 EMU's London to Corby
- 10x 26m Vehicles, and
- Electric Loco with 9x 23m carrigages and DVT

Kinda covering both bases on the long distance stock, looks like we have a logical home for the FCC 377's post Class 700 introduction, plus gives an insight into how the longer distance services could be strengthened in the interim before full electrification, i.e. Class 222 moved from the Corby services as 377's roll out
 
Last edited:

Class 170101

On Moderation
Joined
1 Mar 2014
Messages
8,664
LNW-GW Joint said:
This says it all about NR's attitude to the Electric Spine:



NR basically don't want to do it, especially the DC-AC conversion west of Basingstoke.
They have prioritised their pet project (MML) and extended it to the ECML.
East-West Oxford-Bletchley is also OK, as new construction.
But Bletchley-Bedford and Nuneaton-Leamington seem to be troublesome. 
And now we find the sole shareholder and funder says (twice): "Do it, in CP5 please".
Should be fun watching the fallout.

Personally I am disappointed about the lack of willingness to do Bletchley to Bedford especially since the line is currently closed on Sundays for much of its length it shouldn't cost NR lost of money to do particularly as Schedule 4 and 8 payments would be reduced, this will become more expensive once East West Rail starts, doubtless they will expect to run trains daily.

As for Nuneaton to Basingstoke NR should be told to get a move on, if necessary using the wiring train. However I see little point at this time wiring up 3rd Rail areas, start with non-electrified lines before moving onto electrified lines.
 

swt_passenger

Veteran Member
Joined
7 Apr 2010
Messages
34,318
Kinda covering both bases on the long distance stock, looks like we have a logical home for the FCC 377's post Class 700 introduction, plus gives an insight into how the longer distance services could be strengthened in the interim before full electrification, i.e. Class 222 moved from the Corby services as 377's roll out

I'd read 377 as 'Electrostar type' 20m unit. When NR wrote that 387s were possibly still being referred to as 377/8. They still refer somewhere else to alterations for GW EMU services being based on 319s, yet other references quote 387s...

I think Class377/5 (the poster) has previously said most of the dual voltage 377s have homes to go to on the augmented WLL services, and other TSGN routes (non Thameslink).
 
Last edited:

Bald Rick

Veteran Member
Joined
28 Sep 2010
Messages
35,970
As for Nuneaton to Basingstoke NR should be told to get a move on, if necessary using the wiring train. However I see little point at this time wiring up 3rd Rail areas, start with non-electrified lines before moving onto electrified lines.

Which wiring train would that be? The one being used on GW, or the other one to be used on the MML?
 

LNW-GW Joint

Veteran Member
Joined
22 Feb 2011
Messages
21,951
Location
Mold, Clwyd
Which wiring train would that be? The one being used on GW, or the other one to be used on the MML?

That's a very pertinent point.
However, NR has recently appointed 4 contractors covering 6 areas.
Wouldn't they each have at least one wiring train each?
"ABC Electrification" (Alstom, Babcock, Costain) is supposed to be covering the south Midlands...
 

Bald Rick

Veteran Member
Joined
28 Sep 2010
Messages
35,970
That's a very pertinent point.
However, NR has recently appointed 4 contractors covering 6 areas.
Wouldn't they each have at least one wiring train each?
"ABC Electrification" (Alstom, Babcock, Costain) is supposed to be covering the south Midlands...

If they chose to drop £40m of their own cash on one, yes.
 

WatcherZero

Established Member
Joined
25 Feb 2010
Messages
10,272
This says it all about NR's attitude to the Electric Spine:



NR basically don't want to do it, especially the DC-AC conversion west of Basingstoke.
They have prioritised their pet project (MML) and extended it to the ECML.
East-West Oxford-Bletchley is also OK, as new construction.
But Bletchley-Bedford and Nuneaton-Leamington seem to be troublesome. 
And now we find the sole shareholder and funder says (twice): "Do it, in CP5 please".
Should be fun watching the fallout.

Also NR dont think they can do Sheffield by 2019, programming it for 2020 but the Government is insisting its done in CP5.
 

NotATrainspott

Established Member
Joined
2 Feb 2013
Messages
3,304
Personally I am disappointed about the lack of willingness to do Bletchley to Bedford especially since the line is currently closed on Sundays for much of its length it shouldn't cost NR lost of money to do particularly as Schedule 4 and 8 payments would be reduced, this will become more expensive once East West Rail starts, doubtless they will expect to run trains daily.

As for Nuneaton to Basingstoke NR should be told to get a move on, if necessary using the wiring train. However I see little point at this time wiring up 3rd Rail areas, start with non-electrified lines before moving onto electrified lines.

Since they will have to do some works to increase the max speed on the line from only 60mph I can see them doing much of the difficult pre-requisites for electrification as part of this upgrade. Once all the bridges and other difficult sections are electrification-ready, and all that is left is to run the normal electrification work gangs and trains, the line shouldn't take particularly long to do.
 

LNW-GW Joint

Veteran Member
Joined
22 Feb 2011
Messages
21,951
Location
Mold, Clwyd
Since they will have to do some works to increase the max speed on the line from only 60mph I can see them doing much of the difficult pre-requisites for electrification as part of this upgrade. Once all the bridges and other difficult sections are electrification-ready, and all that is left is to run the normal electrification work gangs and trains, the line shouldn't take particularly long to do.

I thought the problems were what to do with all the level crossings, and how to connect better to the MML at Bedford (or south of).
Historically it is a very low quality route.
Ditto Nuneaton-Coventry-Leamington.
 

telstarbox

Established Member
Joined
23 Jul 2010
Messages
6,390
Location
Wennington Crossovers
Apart from cash, is there a limit to the amount of electrification which can take place at any one time i.e. there are only so many qualified staff and equipment in Britain to handle the work?
 

swt_passenger

Veteran Member
Joined
7 Apr 2010
Messages
34,318
Under the Waterloo project, which has the usual stuff about platforms 1-4 and 20-24 full use, they've added an activity of "Mainline capacity enabling works (Woking area)".

I hope this turns out to be the long planned flyover at the junction, it is always quoted as being the key to running more trains once terminal capacity is available at Waterloo...
 

YorkshireBear

Established Member
Joined
23 Jul 2010
Messages
9,678
This says it all about NR's attitude to the Electric Spine:



NR basically don't want to do it, especially the DC-AC conversion west of Basingstoke.
They have prioritised their pet project (MML) and extended it to the ECML.
East-West Oxford-Bletchley is also OK, as new construction.
But Bletchley-Bedford and Nuneaton-Leamington seem to be troublesome. 
And now we find the sole shareholder and funder says (twice): "Do it, in CP5 please".
Should be fun watching the fallout.

It has nothing to do with them not wanting to do it. The scheme was in before GRIP0 development when it was announced by government. Therefore it is not ready to be taken forward and NR will not rush it when they that and everything else to do.
 

Chrisgr31

Established Member
Joined
2 Aug 2011
Messages
1,704
I see platform lengthening for the Uckfield Lins is in there with plans to extend all platforms from Hever to Uckfield to 10 cars for 170 and 171 stock.

Even more interestingly there is no start or completion date for the works however there is a note that completion should be considered by December 2016 in line requirements emerging from the TGSN franchise.

So now just need to find those surplus Class 170s and 171s to actually run the longer trains!
 

snowball

Established Member
Joined
4 Mar 2013
Messages
8,144
Location
Leeds
Apart from cash, is there a limit to the amount of electrification which can take place at any one time i.e. there are only so many qualified staff and equipment in Britain to handle the work?

From Modern Railways April 2014 page 49:
"The rail electrification sector will need upwards of 2,000 skilled linesmen by 2016, which is 10 times the current capacity."
 

Cletus

Established Member
Joined
11 Dec 2010
Messages
2,399
Location
Dover
In the BBC South East news report just on, it reported on a possible upgrade of the Ashford to Hastings line to "High Speed" and then direct trains to "Kings Cross", also some sort of undertaking from a transport minister.

This is being pushed by the local MP, http://amberrudd.co.uk/rail/

Some more comments about this
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-26832350

A high-speed rail link from London could be extended into East Sussex after the idea received backing from Network Rail and the government.

Conservative MP for Hastings and Rye, Amber Rudd, said there was an "absolute commitment" to support extending HS1 from Ashford in Kent to Hastings.

An extension would mean a 78-minute journey time from Bexhill to Kings Cross and 68 minutes from Hastings.

Transport secretary Patrick McLoughlin said it would be "transformational".

Following a rail summit held in Hastings on Monday he said the case had been made very strongly for HS1 and the Javelin trains.

"It is looking like a fairly positive case," he said.

"What we are seeing is a regeneration of how important the railways are to our country."

Local authorities and transport user groups were also represented at the summit meeting, along with Southeastern and Network Rail.

"We got an absolute commitment from Network Rail and the secretary of state to support bringing High Speed One to Hastings," said Ms Rudd.

"It is going to be a phenomenal change for the regeneration of the area."

The shortest current journey time from Hastings to London Bridge is 85 minutes.

Labour's Jeremy Birch, leader of Hastings Borough Council, tweeted that the rail summit was "upbeat".

Network Rail announced on Monday it had assigned £2.3bn of investment to increase the number of seats available and improve stations in the South East from 2014 to 2019.

Among the pledges were improvements to the line between Hastings and Ashford, but any extension of HS1 would be a longer-term project.

Ray Chapman, from East Sussex Rail Alliance, said: "I am extremely optimistic that Patrick McLoughin has given a seal of approval to take this forward from where the project is today to actual delivery in 2019 and beyond."
 

swt_passenger

Veteran Member
Joined
7 Apr 2010
Messages
34,318
MPs eh?

'improvements to the line between Hastings and Ashford' is probably about as far as this will ever get...
 

JamesRowden

Established Member
Joined
31 Aug 2011
Messages
1,762
Location
Ilfracombe
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top