Network Rail card validity

[Fred99]

Hopefully a simple question for someone clever!
At my station the train to London is supposed to leave at 9:58 which means we have to wait until the next train at 10:28 to use our network cards.

But quite often the train doesn’t leave until 10am.

Is the network card validity attached to the notional departure time of a specific train or is it triggered by the actual time, the reality?
Thanks

 

[Bletchleyite]

Notwithstanding that you might get arguments, the relevant term is:

"6. Network Railcard discounts only apply for travel after 10.00hrs Monday to Friday (excluding public holidays) and any time on weekends."

I don't see anything in that saying the train has to be timetabled to depart after 1000, simply that you travel after 1000. Some ticket restrictions (not all), by contrast, say "trains timed to depart..." in which case the timetabled time is relevant.

That said, it's badly worded to start with - the precise wording of that term says to me that there is no validity on public holidays at all...

 

[PG]

Hi @Fred99 , welcome to the forum
EDIT : See post above from @Bletchleyite
as it appears my advice is incorrect - apologies

In answer to your question the scheduled departure time is what the validity of the Railcard is based on and therefore you'd need to get a train timed to depart at or after 10:00

There are however exceptions to this rule from some stations, see this list at https://www.network-railcard.co.uk/using-your-railcard/travel-times/

Althorne (Essex) 09:45 Greater Anglia service to Wickford To all destinations
Ascott-U-Wych 09:36 Great Western Railway service to London Paddington To all destinations
Ashurst (New Forest) 09:40 South Western Railway service to London Waterloo To all destinations
Banbury 09:39 Great Western Railway service to London Paddington To all destinations
Battle 09:42 Southeastern service to London Charing Cross To all destinations
Bedhampton 09:37 South Western Railway service to London Waterloo To all destinations
Bedwyn 09:39 Great Western Railway service to London Paddington To all destinations
Bletchley 09:52 London Northwestern Railway service to London Euston To all destinations
Brading 09:28 Island Line service to Ryde Pier Head For travel to destinations beyond Portsmouth Harbour. Departure from Portsmouth must be at or after 10:00
Brading 09:48 Island Line service to Ryde Pier Head For travel to Portsmouth Harbour only
Branksome 09:57 South Western Railway service to London Waterloo To all destinations
Broadstairs 09:59 Southeastern service to London St Pancras International To all destinations
Bures 09:40 Greater Anglia service to Marks Tey To all destinations
Burnham-on-Crouch 09:40 Greater Anglia service to Wickford To all destinations
Chappel & Wakes Colne 09:46 Greater Anglia service to Marks Tey To all destinations
Charlbury 09:41 Great Western Railway service to London Paddington To all destinations
Cranbrook 08:36 South Western Railway service to London Waterloo To all destinations
Dorchester South 09:33 South Western Railway service to London Waterloo To all destinations
Dovercourt 09:30 Greater Anglia service to Manningtree To all destinations
Downham Market 09:58 Great Northern service to London Kings Cross To all destinations
Elsenham 09:49 Greater Anglia service to London Liverpool Street. To all destinations
Evesham 09:05 Great Western Railway service to London Paddington To all destinations
Exeter Central 08:27 South Western Railway service to London Waterloo To all destinations
Exeter St Davids 08:23 South Western Railway service to London Waterloo To Exeter Central, Pinhoe, Cranbrook, Whimple and Feniton only
Feniton 08:47 South Western Railway service to London Waterloo To all destinations
Great Chesterford 09:34 Greater Anglia service to London Liverpool Street. To all destinations
Hanborough 09:48 Great Western Railway service to London Paddington To all destinations
Harwich International 09:33 Greater Anglia service to Manningtree To all destinations
Harwich Town 09:28 Greater Anglia service to Manningtree To all destinations
Hastings 09:29 Southeastern service to London Charing Cross To all destinations
Hastings 09:50 Southeastern service to London Charing Cross To all destinations
Heyford 09:53 Great Western Railway service to London Paddington To all destinations
Hilsea 09:32 South Western Railway service to London Waterloo To all destinations
Holton Heath 09:56 South West Trains service to London Waterloo To all destinations
Honeybourne 09:11 Great Western Railway service to London Paddington To all destinations
Honiton 09:55 South Western Railway service to London Waterloo To all destinations
Hungerford 09:44 Great Western Railway service to London Paddington To all destinations
Kelvedon 09:52 Greater Anglia service to London Liverpool Street. To all destinations
Kingham 09:31 Great Western Railway service to London Paddington To all destinations
Kings Lynn 09:44 Great Northern service to London Kings Cross To all destinations
Kings Sutton 09:45 Great Western Railway service to London Paddington To all destinations
Kintbury 09:49 Great Western Railway service to London Paddington To all destinations
Lake 09:21 Island Line service to Ryde Pier Head To all destinations
Lake 09:41 Island Line service to Ryde Pier Head To all destinations
London Liverpool Street 09:48 Greater Anglia service to Braintree To all destinations
London Liverpool Street 09:58 Greater Anglia service to Cambridge To all destinations
Lymington Pier 09:44 South Western Railway service to Brockenhurst To all destinations
Lymington Town 09:46 South Western Railway service to Brockenhurst To all destinations
Margate 09:53 Southeastern service to London St Pancras International To all destinations
Marks Tey 09:56 Greater Anglia service to London Liverpool Street. To all destinations
Milton Keynes Central 09:47 London Northwestern Railway service to London Euston To all destinations
Mistley 09:45 Greater Anglia service to Manningtree To all destinations
Moreton (Dorset) 09:39 South Western Railway service to London Waterloo To all destinations
Moreton-in-Marsh 09:23 Great Western Railway service to London Paddington To all destinations
Newbury 09:56 Great Western Railway service to London Paddington To all destinations
Newport (Essex) 09:43 Greater Anglia service to London Liverpool Street. To all destinations
North Fambridge 09:51 Greater Anglia service to Wickford To all destinations
Parkstone 09:54 South Western Railway service to London Waterloo To all destinations
Pershore 08:47 Great Western Railway service to London Paddington To all destinations
Pinhoe 08:32 South Western Railway service to London Waterloo To all destinations
Rowlands Castle 09:46 South Western Railway service to London Waterloo To all destinations
Ryde Esplanade 09:40 Island Line service to Ryde Pier Head For travel to destinations beyond Portsmouth Harbour. Departure from Portsmouth must be at or after 10:00
Ryde St John’s Road 09:35 Island Line service to Ryde Pier Head For travel to destinations beyond Portsmouth Harbour. Departure from Portsmouth must be at or after 10:00
Ryde St John’s Road 09:55 Island Line service to Ryde Pier Head For travel to Portsmouth Harbour only
Salisbury 09:47 South Western Railway service to Exeter St Davids To all destinations
Sandown 09:24 Island Line service to Ryde Pier Head For travel to destinations beyond Portsmouth Harbour. Departure from Portsmouth must be at or after 10:00
Sandown 09:44 Island Line service to Ryde Pier Head For travel to Portsmouth Harbour only
Shanklin 09:18 Island Line service to Ryde Pier Head For travel to destinations beyond Portsmouth Harbour. Departure from Portsmouth must be at or after 10:00
Shanklin 09:38 Island Line service to Ryde Pier Head For travel to Portsmouth Harbour only
Shelford 09:23 Greater Anglia service to London Liverpool Street. To all destinations
Shelford 09:23 Greater Anglia service to London Liverpool Street. To all destinations
South Woodham Ferrers 09:56 Greater Anglia service to Wickford To all destinations
Southminster 09:36 Greater Anglia service to Wickford To all destinations
St Leonards Warrior Square 09:32 Southeastern service to London Charing Cross To all destinations
St Leonards Warrior Square 09:53 Southeastern service to London Charing Cross To all destinations
Stratford 09:55 Greater Anglia service to Braintree To all destinations
Sturry 09:58 Southeastern service to London Charing Cross To all destinations
Sudbury (Suffolk) 09:33 Greater Anglia service to Marks Tey To all destinations
Tackley 09:58 Great Western Railway service to London Paddington To all destinations
Totton 09:45 South Western Railway service to London Waterloo To all destinations
Tring 09:59 London Northwestern Railway service to Milton Keynes Central To all destinations
Upwey 09:24 South Western Railway service to London Waterloo To all destinations
Wadhurst 09:58 Southeastern service to London Charing Cross To all destinations
Wareham 09:53 South Western Railway service to London Waterloo To all destinations
Watlington 09:51 Great Northern service to London Kings Cross To all destinations
West St Leonards 09:57 Southeastern service to London Charing Cross To all destinations
Weymouth 09:20 South Western Railway service to London Waterloo To all destinations
Whimple 08:41 South Western Railway service to London Waterloo To all destinations
Wool 09:45 South Western Railway service to London Waterloo To all destinations
Worcester Foregate Street 08:26 Great Western Railway service to London Paddington To all destinations
Worcester Shrub Hill 08:38 Great Western Railway service to London Paddington To all destinations
Wrabness 09:39 Greater Anglia service to Manningtree To all destinations

The best advice I can give is to check with the ticket office staff at your local station before buying or using tickets or should your station be unstaffed to check with the guard on the train before boarding.

 

[Fred99]

Hi & thank you both for your replies. Very useful although I’m inclined to go with Bletchleyite’s answer.

For me the issues is less about how the station staff/rail company choose to interpret the rules, it is about the legal drafting. So often in life the actual legislation allows you to do much more than those interpreting the rules (often motivated to interpret them to their own advantage) will permit.

If it states that it is for ‘travel after 10am’ then it’s for travel after 10am and I suspect a court would interpret it in the same way.

 

[PG]

You're welcome - as @Bletchleyite points out the wording is ambiguous but I wouldn't like to test it out personally in court.

As far as I can make out a departure at 10:00 or after is fine - kind of begs the question that if everyone boarded a 9:58 train slowly such that the actual departure time was delayed until 10:00 would that make Network Railcard discounted tickets valid?

Not for a minute am I suggesting that anyone should actually do this as staff have a difficult enough job to do as it is without anyone deliberately interfering with the safe operation of the railway.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think they probably meant scheduled, but the thing is that that isn't what they wrote, and a Court would go with what it said, not what that wanted it to say.

 

[74A]

I think they probably meant scheduled, but the thing is that that isn't what they wrote, and a Court would go with what it said, not what that wanted it to say.

No they didn't mean scheduled. The rule was changed some years ago. If your 0958 train is running 2 minutes late then it is perfectly valid to use your Network Card ticket.

 

[yorkie]

I think they probably meant scheduled, but the thing is that that isn't what they wrote, and a Court would go with what it said, not what that wanted it to say.

I strongly disagree with this.

There is no doubt what the validity is, but if there was doubt then under consumer law the rule should need to be interpreted in a manner that favours the consumer.

No they didn't mean scheduled. The rule was changed some years ago. If your 0958 train is running 2 minutes late then it is perfectly valid to use your Network Card ticket.

Agreed.

It is the actual departure time that counts; a train scheduled earlier than 10am but departs at a valid time is perfectly valid to board.

See:

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/using-a-network-railcard-on-a-delayed-pre-10am-train.184201/

Was changed some years ago to any train leaving after 1000. Just to avoid this sort of issue.

Thats why it says as you quoted. Not valid for travel before 1000. Timetable time does not matter. Its the actual time that counts.

Condition 4.2 of the Railcard's T&Cs state "...discounts apply for travel at or after 10.00 Monday to Friday..."

https://www.network-railcard.co.uk/help/railcard-terms-conditions/

Therefore you are perfectly permitted to travel on the delayed 0952.

 

[MikeWh]

If catching the 0958 is important then you could buy the network railcard discounted return and a single to the next station. As long as the return doesn't prohibit break of journey then that is fine as you don't start using it until the next station.

 

[coxy]

In the past I've been refused sale of a Network Railcard discounted ticket until 10:00 - on the basis that the ticket isn't valid until that time so it can't be sold.

I've countered that the ticket office would be more than happy to sell me an advanced ticket for travel in several weeks time, so why can't they sell me a ticket with NR discount before 10:00 which I intend to use from 10:00.

 

[Surreytraveller]

The validity of the Network Railcard, and the Network Card before that, has always been explicitly valid for travel after 10am regardless of what the timetabled departure of the train is

 

[Surreytraveller]

In the past I've been refused sale of a Network Railcard discounted ticket until 10:00 - on the basis that the ticket isn't valid until that time so it can't be sold.

I've countered that the ticket office would be more than happy to sell me an advanced ticket for travel in several weeks time, so why can't they sell me a ticket with NR discount before 10:00 which I intend to use from 10:00.

When I used to work in ticket offices, it was usual to sell them after the departure of the train before 10am. If I knew that train was running late, and wouldn't leave until after 10.00, then I would sell discounted tickets for that train (this was in the days before the Internet, but booking offices used to tip stations up the line off by telephone in this eventuality)