Network Northwest discussion

[Transilien]

Network Northwest was a very short rebranding exercise by BR in the Northwest in the late eighties. What was the idea behind this project, was it supposed to become a sector like NSE or just a brand like ScotRail? Why did it last such a short time?

 

[Helvellyn]

I believe it was a sub-brand within Provincial. I remember a number of 150/2s had the pale blue band if their Provincial livery replaced by a grey/red band. The branding appeared on timetables and stations as well, including co-branding with PTE sponsorship existed. I've a feeling it may have been an attempt to given a commin feel to the North West services whilst allowing for PTE sponsorship without needing DMUs with dedicated liveries that could end up on non-PTE services.

I can’t recall if the sub-brand disappeared before or because of the Regional Railways brand launch, which also saw GMPTE and Merseyrail get new PTE liveries based on the way the RR one was laid out.

https://dt565gqrz3z7y.cloudfront.net/ce/image/ZUOOHRi8isvL9_W7yrYHmw.jpg

 

[sprinterguy]

Having dug out the April 1989 issue of RAIL Magazine that describes the planned launch with that year's May timetable change, it was essentially a branding exercise intended to unify Provincial sector services across the North West in a manner that aped Network Southeast.

It was a partnership between Provinicial, GMPTE and Lancashire County Council, and was quite geographically expansive, covering all Provincial services within an area bounded by Barrow, Blackpool, Chester, Crewe, Buxton, Littleborough and Colne.

The key intention was to take advantage of the new Windsor link (opened in May 1988) and rationalisation of the Piccadilly station track layout that autumn with a new timetable that better integrated services across Manchester, while also improving the provision of customer information and the station environment.

From May 1990, Blackpool North to Man Vic services were diverted to Piccadilly and ran through to terminate at Stockport. Services into Manchester from Blackburn and Buxton were increased to half hourly off peak and timings accelerated through use of Sprinters. Oxford Road to Chester services were extended back to start at Warrington and run via Piccadilly and Stockport to rejoin their former route at Altrincham, and Barrow and Furness line stations gained a 2-hourly through service to Manchester.

According to 'The Regional Railways Story' by Gordon Petitt and Nicholas Comfort, the brand's downfall came quickly in the second half of 1990 as a result of the complexity of this timetable, due to unreliability of the Pacers, Sprinters being away for modifications, unavailability of parts for the remaining heritage DMUs, tight turnaround times and more workings being diagrammed than there were crews to work them.

As a result, I don't think the brand actively survived beyond the public launch of the Regional Railways rebrand in 1991: The original intention was for 26 class 150/2s and 8 class 156s to receive the red and grey stripe on their Provincial livery (with the potential for the 156s to be delivered new in the scheme), but ultimately only 7 class 150/2s received the stripe, and a number of Newton Heath based 142s had the red and white 'NNW' insignia applied to their Provincial Railbus blue livery. A couple of the 150/2s had been repainted in the new GMPTE dark grey/red/white livery by the end of 1992 (that scheme having been launched in early January of that year), and the remainder were in Merseytravel livery a year later.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

In some ways it wasn't "short lived"- there are still traces of the branding at some stations around Lancashire, and the logo survived on the side of some 142s well into the privatisation era.

 

[KevinTurvey]

The launch of Network North West coincided with the withdrawal of pacers for gearbox replacement, meaning much loco haulage introduced during this period on various routes, mainly diagrammed for 31/4s and later 37/4s, but in reality almost anything could turn up including 20s 31/1s 37/0s and 47s on routes that had not seen them before, and 104s 101s and 108s lingering on. The loco hauled diagrams lasted until about 1995 and the dmus until 2003.

As 61653 states NNW branding did linger on for quite a while.

Interesting times.

 

[Ashley Hill]

Is this Northwest Express tie anything to do with Network Northwest?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Is this Northwest Express tie anything to do with Network Northwest?
View attachment 194217

NorthWest Express was a later post-privatisation brand which started in Regional Railways days. The North West 156s got a green bodyside stripe instead of the blue and seat covers to match (blue background with a small version of that chevron logo on them) with the brand being applied to Manchester Airport-Barrow/Windermere/Blackpool fasts, plus it was also used on the North Wales Coast loco hauled services for a period but without the livery.

 

[Ashley Hill]

NorthWest Express was a later post-privatisation brand which started in Regional Railways days. The North West 156s got a green bodyside stripe instead of the blue and seat covers to match (blue background with a small version of that chevron logo on them) with the brand being applied to Manchester Airport-Barrow/Windermere/Blackpool fasts, plus it was also used on the North Wales Coast loco hauled services for a period but without the livery.

Cheers.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Cheers.

Sorry, corrected it slightly, it was pre privatisation - started by Regional Railways.

 

[L+Y]

Still plenty of NNW branding about: here's St Annes station yesterday!

 

[6Gman]

Still plenty of NNW branding about: here's St Annes station yesterday!

I think I've got the matching tie!

 

[pdeaves]

Is this Northwest Express tie anything to do with Network Northwest?
View attachment 194217

This is the Network NorthWest one:

 

[Elecman]

Still plenty of NNW branding about: here's St Annes station yesterday!

That’s the Lancashire Lines project funded by Lancashire County Council from the late 1980s l. Not Network Northwest I was the local BR project manager for it in Preston Area Managers office. Only stations within the Preston AMO were dealt with like that.

 

[Bletchleyite]

That’s the Lancashire Lines project funded by Lancashire County Council from the late 1980s l. Not Network Northwest I was the local BR project manager for it in Preston Area Managers office. Only stations within the Preston AMO were dealt with like that.

The Lancashire Lines were secondarily branded Network NorthWest, as you can see on the bottom of the pictured totem.

The brand can be seen in lots of places, eg some of the Cumbrian Coast.

 

[Transilien]

According to 'The Regional Railways Story' by Gordon Petitt and Nicholas Comfort, the brand's downfall came quickly in the second half of 1990 as a result of the complexity of this timetable, due to unreliability of the Pacers, Sprinters being away for modifications, unavailability of parts for the remaining heritage DMUs, tight turnaround times and more workings being diagrammed than there were crews to work them.

It’s a shame that BR never managed to keep the brand as north west England could have benefited from a NSE style upgrade to the service.

 

[Strathclyder]

This is the livery the 156s discussed above recieved, this pic was taken post-privatisation in the First North Western era with the livery rebranded to reflect this. 18 156s in total got this livery, going off of the 'madasafish' 156 site. Only 10 of these units recieved the following First Barbie livery before Serco/Abellio got the franchise in December 2004; the livery itself lingered until April 2005 when 156461 was repainted.

156452 Garstang 16 May 2002

The handful of 309s transferred to the North West eventually got this livery as well after spending their first few years in the region still in their wholly inappropriate NSE livery.

309613 Slindon 15 May 1997

(both photos by Martin Loader)

 

[Djgr]

It’s a shame that BR never managed to keep the brand as north west England could have benefited from a NSE style upgrade to the service.

As few years after this, NSE was abandoned anyway due to privatisation.

 

[pdeaves]

This is the livery the 156s discussed above recieved, this pic was taken post-privatisation in the First North Western era with the livery rebranded to reflect this. 18 156s in total got this livery, going off of the 'madasafish' 156 site. Only 10 of these units recieved the following First Barbie livery before Serco/Abellio got the franchise in December 2004; the livery itself lingered until April 2005 when 156461 was repainted.

156452 Garstang 16 May 2002

The handful of 309s transferred to the North West eventually got this livery as well after spending their first few years in the region still in their wholly inappropriate NSE livery.

309613 Slindon 15 May 1997

(both photos by Martin Loader)

Are those Network NorthWest, or North West Regional Railways? Different brands/names, in my book.

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

NorthWest Express was a later post-privatisation brand which started in Regional Railways days. The North West 156s got a green bodyside stripe instead of the blue and seat covers to match (blue background with a small version of that chevron logo on them) with the brand being applied to Manchester Airport-Barrow/Windermere/Blackpool fasts, plus it was also used on the North Wales Coast loco hauled services for a period but without the livery.

Those 156s also saw very regular use on Southport-Manchester Airport services.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Are those Network NorthWest, or North West Regional Railways? Different brands/names, in my book.

The green stripe 156s were NorthWest Express, by NorthWest Regional Railways (yes, without the space), the "shadow TOC".

 

[Ashley Hill]

This is the Network NorthWest one:

View attachment 194408

Cheers for that. I can’t remember seeing one of those before.

 

[BeijingDave]

Oxford Road to Chester services were extended back to start at Warrington and run via Piccadilly and Stockport to rejoin their former route at Altrincham

I don't remember that at all, but it's intriguing.

Please does anyone have further details such as stations served, or even better, a timetable?

 

[sprinterguy]

I don't remember that at all, but it's intriguing.

Please does anyone have further details such as stations served, or even better, a timetable?

Looking at the Summer 1992 timetable, they actually started back from Wigan Wallgate, rather than Warrington, so not sure whether the latter was a misprint on RAIL's part or whether the origin had been altered by that time.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Looking at the Summer 1992 timetable, they actually started back from Wigan Wallgate, rather than Warrington, so not sure whether the latter was a misprint on RAIL's part or whether the origin had been altered by that time.

I forget when but at one point the Southport service was to Chester via Altrincham.

 

[6Gman]

I forget when but at one point the Southport service was to Chester via Altrincham.

And, indeed, offered the prospect of a Class 31-hauled coaching stock set at one point.

 

[Leyland Bus]

Still plenty of NNW branding about: here's St Annes station yesterday!

Whats even more comical with this totem, is that its a modern day repro! Clearly when the totem was being replaced, someone at the sign makers was told to reproduce the original, so they did (largely!) complete with Network NorthWest branding, long after it was disbanded! The clues to it being newer than the 1980/90s, the Chonky Northern era Double Arrow and lack of Rail Alphabet for the text!

 

[BeijingDave]

Looking at the Summer 1992 timetable, they actually started back from Wigan Wallgate, rather than Warrington, so not sure whether the latter was a misprint on RAIL's part or whether the origin had been altered by that time.

Thanks. I was pretty sure I didn't remember any Chester services from Warrington Central, ever, and if from Warrington Bank Quay it would have caused a very intriguing situation of passengers potentially accidentally boarding a Chester train that took 2 hours as opposed to the conventional service via Frodsham which took 30 minutes.

Also the possibility of Chester trains booked around the same time on opposite sides of the station, travelling in opposite directions!

 

[Tester]

Whats even more comical with this totem, is that its a modern day repro! Clearly when the totem was being replaced, someone at the sign makers was told to reproduce the original, so they did (largely!) complete with Network NorthWest branding, long after it was disbanded! The clues to it being newer than the 1980/90s, the Chonky Northern era Double Arrow and lack of Rail Alphabet for the text!

I thought the double arrow looked wrong!

 

[nw1]

I forget when but at one point the Southport service was to Chester via Altrincham.

Certainly was the case later in the 90s, around 1996/97 or so. What I do remember is a half-hourly cross-Manchester local service, alternating Buxton/Chester at the southern end and Southport/Blackpool to the north.

 

[Barnsley]

Certainly was the case later in the 90s, around 1996/97 or so. What I do remember is a half-hourly cross-Manchester local service, alternating Buxton/Chester at the southern end and Southport/Blackpool to the north.

As a 15 year old I used to change at Stockport from Sheffield to get the 1115 to Southport, 0954 ex Chester, booked a 101! arrived at 1232 in Southport!