NET Extension

[LowLevel]

Kangaroo rail boundaries are Carlton, Netherfield, Bulwell and Attenborough.

That and the citycard cause all kinds of issues with them being valid to Hucknall on the tram but not the train and it would make my life much easier if it was extended !

 

[howittpie]

Kangaroo rail boundaries are Carlton, Netherfield, Bulwell and Attenborough.

That and the citycard cause all kinds of issues with them being valid to Hucknall on the tram but not the train and it would make my life much easier if it was extended !

I have also noticed there is no way of checking the kangaroo seasons on a city card by train staff you just have to wave it at the guard or station staff to be let through the gates.

 

[tramdan]

The former Station Street scissors crossover was used yesterday to turn some trams north to south.

On another note, I used the turnback at Clifton Centre for the first time today, with the part time signals. All works very well indeed.

 

[duffield]

Former Station Street tram stop steps and lift now back in use after refurb, so there's now a lift at both end of the tram bridge.

 

[P156KWJ]

Former Station Street tram stop steps and lift now back in use after refurb, so there's now a lift at both end of the tram bridge.

Does the lift actually function this time?

 

[edwin_m]

Does the lift actually function this time?

At least there's now an alternative route for those that can't use stairs/escalators if either of the lifts is out of order. Although if not able to use the stairs on the centre station footbridge it is quite a long way round!

 

[spinba11]

Don't forget there are 2 lifts in the car park next the station stop as well.

 

[duffield]

Does the lift actually function this time?

It does have a long history of breakdowns. At least with two lifts, one at each end, there's a good chance one of them will be working at any given time!

Edit: Plus the ones in the car park, so that improves the odds even more...

 

[theblackwatch]

There was disruption this afternoon owing to a power outage on the southern part of the network, with nothing running south of Nottingham Station for a while. Then, once power was restored, Tram 228 decided it wouldn't play which meant no trams to Clifton for nearly an hour after. One consequence of this was that my tram got turned back at Queens Walk and I travelled over the crossover there which I guess is quite rare.

 

[howittpie]

These power outages are becoming common a couple of weeks ago there was 4 in 5 days all on the southern part of the network. I seem to remember hearing NET say they are bringing technicians from France to sort the problem.

 

[paul@skegby.org.]

Car took wrong turning this morning, more delays for NET

http://www.nottinghampost.com/Trams-delayed-car-track-Nottingham/story-28025499-detail/story.html

 

[tramdan]

Quite incredible just how far he made it up the bridge!

 

[Mitch in Notts]

Another car on the Gregory Street tram track bridge at 1800hrs tonight. According to other users the signs indicating 'tram only' and 'no cars' are unlit........

 

[Domh245]

Another car on the Gregory Street tram track bridge at 1800hrs tonight. According to other users the signs indicating 'tram only' and 'no cars' are unlit........

Sorry, but unless the signs absorb all light, it would have been illuminated by the driver's headlamps! Absolutely no excuse. Perhaps some stinger devices need to be embedded into the road surface everytime the road becomes tram only to stop this.

 

[kevjs]

Another car on the Gregory Street tram track bridge at 1800hrs tonight. According to other users the signs indicating 'tram only' and 'no cars' are unlit........

They are lit (normally), and there are bright red cat's eye's in the road all the way across the entrance to the bridge too.

However there are also roadworks at that point at the moment, which are unlit, and those do catch me out at the end of the cycle track as you can't see the crossings closed until you've passed the last dropped kerb.

 

[nottinghamcity]

I noticed on a recent trip to Marseilles, they addressed this problem by having a piece of roadway missing a short distance before the ballasted section. This I suppose brings the offending vehicle to an abrupt (and probably expensive) stop, but doesn't trap it.

 

[kevjs]

Just to confirm, the no entry signs are lit, and even if they weren't the street lighting illuminates them very well, and the cones are still there from construction...

 

[nottinghamcity]

This one comes from left field Nottingham-to-Derby tram link backed by economic leaders
Nottingham to Derby via Toton and East Midlands airport (and presumably Clifton) at a maximum speed of 70kmh must make this the slowest possible way of getting between the two cities.

 

[edwin_m]

This one comes from left field Nottingham-to-Derby tram link backed by economic leaders
Nottingham to Derby via Toton and East Midlands airport (and presumably Clifton) at a maximum speed of 70kmh must make this the slowest possible way of getting between the two cities.

I assume the story has been corrupted in the telling and they are actually thinking of a network rather than a single route trying to connect everywhere to everywhere else. But yes, considering the amount of rail expertise they have based within their areas the East Midlands councils do sometimes seem remarkably inept when setting rail policies - witness for example the hoo-ha about HS2 access. Faster tram (or tram-train) designs exist but I doubt they could easily be adapted to NET's narrow body width and tight radii.

 

[Mitch in Notts]

Just to confirm, the no entry signs are lit, and even if they weren't the street lighting illuminates them very well, and the cones are still there from construction...

There was a statement from more than one member of the public in the area at the time that the signs weren't lit. Sounds like there was a lighting outage in the area at the time then...... and that's been quite common with regards to trams since August!

 

[kevjs]

I noticed on a recent trip to Marseilles, they addressed this problem by having a piece of roadway missing a short distance before the ballasted section. This I suppose brings the offending vehicle to an abrupt (and probably expensive) stop, but doesn't trap it.

There's no roadway here, and no ballast section either!

There was a statement from more than one member of the public in the area at the time that the signs weren't lit. Sounds like there was a lighting outage in the area at the time then...... and that's been quite common with regards to trams since August!

That's last night, the cones have been there for ages, and there are also cats eyes below the Tram Only paint that even my bike lights were illuminating well.

Even if all the lighting had failed there's still plenty of signs which would reflect headlights too..

{EDIT} Ignore those comments, just realised Gregory Street was mentioned, of course as this is south of the canal it's Lenton Lane so it much be the QMC junction where they have somehow managed to get confused.. Don't pass that bit so can't comment on it..

 

[Mitch in Notts]

I haven't cycled round that area for months. But the article said 'Gregory Street Bridge'. Many people don't realise that Gregory Street crosses Abbey Street and only becomes Lenton Lane at the railway bridge. (Even Google maps shows it incorrectly). But I must admit I'm completely puzzled as to where they mean, so you may have the correct location!

 

[tramdan]

The car on the 9th November was at the location pictured.

 

[Jordeh]

This one comes from left field Nottingham-to-Derby tram link backed by economic leaders
Nottingham to Derby via Toton and East Midlands airport (and presumably Clifton) at a maximum speed of 70kmh must make this the slowest possible way of getting between the two cities.

What on earth is this Light Rail Transit Association? I'm getting quite tired of the utter nonsense they seem to spew at every opportunity.

The recent obsession amongst some people to extend the tram to East Midlands Airport is bordering on idiotic and detracts from many good ideas to improve public transport in Nottingham and Derby. It is a waste of time in the devolution negotiations. I can't imagine many people would use it nevermind want it. The airport doesn't even support a commercial bus route straight into Nottingham, I'm excluding Skylink from this as it goes via Long Eaton and Beeston.

 

[kevjs]

What on earth is this Light Rail Transit Association? I'm getting quite tired of the utter nonsense they seem to spew at every opportunity.

The recent obsession amongst some people to extend the tram to East Midlands Airport is bordering on idiotic and detracts from many good ideas to improve public transport in Nottingham and Derby. It is a waste of time in the devolution negotiations. I can't imagine many people would use it nevermind want it. The airport doesn't even support a commercial bus route straight into Nottingham, I'm excluding Skylink from this as it goes via Long Eaton and Beeston.

The thing to remember is that, while currently it might not make a lot of sense, there are quite a few developments, which if all come to fruition, suddenly make it seem a lot more sensible, especially if you can combine construction (e.g. build a lot of the milage with HS2) and especially if tram-trains are considered. You also don't grow a city without thing what's outside the current boundaries.

1. Fairham Pastures

A new housing estate (about the size of Clifton) west of Clifton - taking NET Line 2 to either Gotham or Ruddington then becomes doable with a gap no larger than Bulwell Forest to Hucknall

2. High Speed 2 at Toton.

An obvious no-brainer to extend the tram to this station (as it's pretty much already there anyway).

Once you've done that you may as well extend the tracks into Long Eaton itself to link the town to HS2, and then trough either reserved rails or tram-trains connect HS2 to East Midlands Parkway - they by linking the two stations

3. East Midlands Gateway
A new rail freight terminal to be built North of East Midlands Airport, pretty much filling the space surrounded by EMA, Castle Donington, Lockington, A453. The Railfreight Terminal and transport interchange will be where the road between Kegworth and the Airport cross the M1/A453...

4. New Housing West of Kegworth

North of the road mentioned in 3 new housing is due to be built, extending Kegworth right up to the M1

5. GNCR Extension to Leicester and Ruddington Lane

The GNCR want to extend to Ruddington Lane (to allow a link between Nottingham and there Railway) and will be extending all the way to Leicester. They also want to provide a South Facing curve at Ruddington Country Park.

Now, if it's possible for the various organisations to work together it might then becomes possible to link Loughbourgh (and potentially even Leicester) to the Greater Nottingham tram network via tram trains, connecting to Line 2 and either Ruddington Lane or Fairham Pastures. As the line is only single track you also have the option of dual-track tram trains or 2xsingle track (one NET, one GNCR) to allow both the GNCR and NET to run side by side

http://kjs.me.uk/3rdparty/skyscraper/S-NET.png shows the major development sites (red outlines), HS2 (purple line) and my suggestions.

As for the Airport not supporting a commercial bus service, until very recently the A453 was a major bottleneck massively effecting the punctuality of any service running down it, and over the next couple of years the area around the Broadmarsh is due to undergo significant changes, until that's all sorted a bus getting stuck in traffic is going to seem rather unattractive.

 

[Warbo44]

I live in Long Eaton close to the NET terminus at Toton but i really don't think a tram line between the 2 East Midland cities will come about. For one the NET extension line 2 to Toton was only built to reduce the amount of cars going into Nottingham. Nottingham i believe is / was the most traffic congested city in the East Midlands region and the new tram line was built to eleviate this. Then a workplace parking levy was then introduced in the Nottingham city area to pay for the new tram extensions but which i believe will be there for a long long time after they've paid for it. Just like income tax which was introduced in 1799 by the then Prime Minister William Pitt the Younger, as a temporary measure to cover the cost of the Napoleonic Wars. Not so temporary was it. Any Nottingham city workers can now drive and park up at either Hucknall, Phoenix Park, Toton or Clifton straight off the M1, A453 and A610 and travel into the city easily. Thus saving themselves time and possibly money as they would've usually have had to pay for parking.

The Toton terminus was intended to provide a park & ride option to Nottingham city workers much like line 1 north to Hucknall. The only thing is that the new NET line is competing directly with a bus service to Beeston and Long Eaton that runs every 7 minutes during the week that was very good indeed but obviously which did also suffer with traffic congestion problems now and then. There are bus lanes into the city but this only added to traffic congestion for car drivers when they were finished.

When i travel into Nottingham it can take between 30mins, good day, upto 1 hour to get into the city. Whereas with Derby it takes half that time. The reason being the A52 to Derby has a maximum speed of 70mph, being dual carriageway, virtually right into the city centre up to what is called the Pentagon island. Whereas going into Nottingham you get reduced down to 40mph a good 4 miles outside the city. At peak hours the A52 into Derby does start to back up from Pentagon island at "rush hour", from 7:30am, every week day but nowhere near as bad as Nottingham. The new NET line i'm sure has helped plus the new dual A453 that's now been finished from junction 24 off the M1 but the extension line 2 out to Clifton also serves as a park & ride option for workers who travel into Nottingham from the south and come off at M1 junction 24 as well.

The only reason that this story has come about are the plans of building a HS2 station at Toton but that won't be happening for another 15-20 years yet if it happens at all. That far ahead why can't a leasing company have some more units built for East Midlands Trains or whoever runs the franchise in this area to run services from Nottingham, Derby and Leicester to the new HS2 station at Toton. EMT already run an hourly service from Nottingham - Matlock which could easily be routed to the new HS2 station and then back out to Derby and Matlock anyway.

 

[edwin_m]

The thing to remember is that, while currently it might not make a lot of sense, there are quite a few developments, which if all come to fruition, suddenly make it seem a lot more sensible, especially if you can combine construction (e.g. build a lot of the milage with HS2) and especially if tram-trains are considered. You also don't grow a city without thing what's outside the current boundaries.

Tram-trains are irrelevant unless it is proposed to run on existing lines, which is pretty unlikely for these extensions as most don't follow railways.

1. Fairham Pastures

A new housing estate (about the size of Clifton) west of Clifton - taking NET Line 2 to either Gotham or Ruddington then becomes doable with a gap no larger than Bulwell Forest to Hucknall

Fairham Pastures is pretty obvious - doubtful whether it would then extend to either Gotham or Ruddington as both are much smaller than say Hucknall and the only obvious park and ride potential would have to pass through Ruddington and tap the A60 somewhere beyond.

2. High Speed 2 at Toton.

An obvious no-brainer to extend the tram to this station (as it's pretty much already there anyway).

Once you've done that you may as well extend the tracks into Long Eaton itself to link the town to HS2, and then trough either reserved rails or tram-trains connect HS2 to East Midlands Parkway - they by linking the two stations

I agree Toton is pretty obvious and Long Eaton is possible although the route would be a bit indirect. I can't see any case to go to EM Parkway because there's nothing there other than the railway station and the power station, and access to the rail network would also be available at Long Eaton and Toton (which would probably have connecting classic trains as well as HS2). It would also involve an expensive extra crossing of the Trent - tram-train isn't really viable on this busy section of railway and even combined with the HS2 crossing it would be costly.

3. East Midlands Gateway
A new rail freight terminal to be built North of East Midlands Airport, pretty much filling the space surrounded by EMA, Castle Donington, Lockington, A453. The Railfreight Terminal and transport interchange will be where the road between Kegworth and the Airport cross the M1/A453...

A railfreight terminal isn't a big generator of employment or visitors, basically just warehousing. The route from Parkway is either a couple of miles of nothing (which would have to be elevated over the flood plain) or a slightly longer route to take in the fairly small village of Kegworth.

4. New Housing West of Kegworth

North of the road mentioned in 3 new housing is due to be built, extending Kegworth right up to the M1

A fairly small expansion, and an indirect tram route at 45mph maximum isn't going to be competitive with a bus service along the A453 which can do 70mph all the way to Clifton. Yes I know there is no such bus service now, but any development that would generate enough traffic to justify a tram would justify a bus first.

As for the Airport not supporting a commercial bus service, until very recently the A453 was a major bottleneck massively effecting the punctuality of any service running down it, and over the next couple of years the area around the Broadmarsh is due to undergo significant changes, until that's all sorted a bus getting stuck in traffic is going to seem rather unattractive.

QED. A fast bus service from the airport will be perfectly possible long before any tram connection could be built.

5. GNCR Extension to Leicester and Ruddington Lane

The GNCR want to extend to Ruddington Lane (to allow a link between Nottingham and there Railway) and will be extending all the way to Leicester. They also want to provide a South Facing curve at Ruddington Country Park.

Now, if it's possible for the various organisations to work together it might then becomes possible to link Loughbourgh (and potentially even Leicester) to the Greater Nottingham tram network via tram trains, connecting to Line 2 and either Ruddington Lane or Fairham Pastures. As the line is only single track you also have the option of dual-track tram trains or 2xsingle track (one NET, one GNCR) to allow both the GNCR and NET to run side by side

Again a 45mph tram or even a 60mph tram-train isn't going to be competitive with existing bus or train services. The only community between Ruddington and Loughborough on the GCR(N) is East Leake, which has frequent buses to both Nottingham and Loughborough, and the intermediate stations on the main GCR are poorly sited for the villages they were built to serve. Having done a feasibility study some years ago into tram-train on a heritage railway I have to say there are a lot of technical and organisational difficulties and it would be very difficult to provide an attractive service without seriously damaging the heritage operation.

 

[Jordeh]

Tram-trains are irrelevant unless it is proposed to run on existing lines, which is pretty unlikely for these extensions as most don't follow railways.

Fairham Pastures is pretty obvious - doubtful whether it would then extend to either Gotham or Ruddington as both are much smaller than say Hucknall and the only obvious park and ride potential would have to pass through Ruddington and tap the A60 somewhere beyond.

I agree Toton is pretty obvious and Long Eaton is possible although the route would be a bit indirect. I can't see any case to go to EM Parkway because there's nothing there other than the railway station and the power station, and access to the rail network would also be available at Long Eaton and Toton (which would probably have connecting classic trains as well as HS2). It would also involve an expensive extra crossing of the Trent - tram-train isn't really viable on this busy section of railway and even combined with the HS2 crossing it would be costly.

A railfreight terminal isn't a big generator of employment or visitors, basically just warehousing. The route from Parkway is either a couple of miles of nothing (which would have to be elevated over the flood plain) or a slightly longer route to take in the fairly small village of Kegworth.

A fairly small expansion, and an indirect tram route at 45mph maximum isn't going to be competitive with a bus service along the A453 which can do 70mph all the way to Clifton. Yes I know there is no such bus service now, but any development that would generate enough traffic to justify a tram would justify a bus first.

QED. A fast bus service from the airport will be perfectly possible long before any tram connection could be built.

Again a 45mph tram or even a 60mph tram-train isn't going to be competitive with existing bus or train services. The only community between Ruddington and Loughborough on the GCR(N) is East Leake, which has frequent buses to both Nottingham and Loughborough, and the intermediate stations on the main GCR are poorly sited for the villages they were built to serve. Having done a feasibility study some years ago into tram-train on a heritage railway I have to say there are a lot of technical and organisational difficulties and it would be very difficult to provide an attractive service without seriously damaging the heritage operation.

Excellent post, completely agree with all your points, clearly someone very knowledgeable with the area.

Loughborough already has good connections to Nottingham (2 tph) and a quick bus service too, a tram train is slower and not needed on a capacity front either. Likewise, it has even better connections to Leicester (3 tph).

Nottingham railway station being particularly well sited (and connected) to the city centre is another nail in the coffin of tram-trains in Nottingham too.

 

[ashworth]

People are being encouraged to park and ride by using the tram to get into Nottingham rather than driving. However, for some time now the tram/station car park at Hucknall is full to overflowing even before 9.00 am everyday from Monday to Friday. It will be no use Christmas shoppers turning up mid morning to park and use the tram from Hucknall as there is never any room until later in the day when some people return from the city and leave empty spaces.

It is going to get even worse in the new year when major road works for the construction of the Hucknall inner relief road begin restricting parking on nearby streets. Also the bridge, carrying the main road over the Robin Hood Line, immediately north of the station is due to be replaced early in the new year resulting in a 4 month road closure. The car park at Hucknall, although large, is now totally inadequate for the amount of use it is now getting.

 

[kevjs]

Nottingham railway station being particularly well sited (and connected) to the city centre is another nail in the coffin of tram-trains in Nottingham too.

Surely that becomes an advantage - especially at the eastern side of the city (e.g. the Radcliffe-on-Trent, Bingham corridor) - the A52 is heavily congested at peak times and the obvious place for a P&R site would be at Saxondale, but you're then stuck in the same traffic as everyone else. With housing also planned to go all the way from Newton to Bingham there is the potential for that corridor to be massively overloaded in the coming years.


Also, one other point I forget, is that right next to EMP is the Radcliffe-on-Soar power station, which if government policy actually follows through will be wound down in the next decade or so, and that land would make an ideal location for an edge of city business / industrial park, and as we've seen up at Newton may well become a site for new housing.

While it might not make a huge amount of sense for either tram-trains, trams or some form of light rail to be extended to East Midlands Airport today it certainly seems sensible to look at sensible routings, reserving the land required to build them, and encouraging development along these corridors. As D2N2 is supposed to encourage investment and growth in the Nottingham-Derby area it makes sense to consider the future and encourage investment in the right areas. The city centre can't cope with any more traffic (unless you want to start bulldozing it) so areas further out need to be developed and linking them to a sensible well planned PT transport area is key