Needless Eurostar Chaos?

[gordonthemoron]

most of the problems with ICEs in germany seem to be ICE1s & ICE2s in the north. The ICE3s & ICETs seem to be OK

 

[TGV]

My information says that any line over 200km/h with poor weather conditions is subject to restrictions to prevent train undersides being damaged by ice. Nothing to do with the train type. It's not traction specific. Same for LGV's in France.

 

[gordonthemoron]

ICETs rarely run faster than 200k in any case and ICE3s generally run in sourthern germany where the weather hasn't been so bad. They only do over 200k on the Köln-Frankfurt Airport and Nuremberg-Ingolstadt high speed lines

 

[EWS 58038]

From what I understand is that the HSL-Zuid in the Netherlands has NO speed restriction as it is a concrete slab-bed build railway, but from the Belgium border there is a 140 km'h speed restriction as the line there has a traditional track bed.

Fyra services are limited to 140 km'h due to the fact that they carry a dead engine at the rear both ways. (no need to split and join)

 

[Striker]

There is something I don't get.. why don't they let extra people on the trains when they've got massive backlogs like this. It's common on pretty much every other line in the UK for people to have to stand, so why not on Eurostar? Is there some kind of restriction due to speed?

The reason everybody has to have an allocated seat on all high speed trains is to avoid a train being overweight and it therefore affecting the braking performance.

 

[Failed Unit]

The reason everybody has to have an allocated seat on all high speed trains is to avoid a train being overweight and it therefore affecting the braking performance.

Let's hope they never fill a train with 20stone adults then.

 

[Multiple Unit]

I thoght ES had resoved all there problems with the trains. (sorry havent read all of this thread).

 

[gordonthemoron]

The reason everybody has to have an allocated seat on all high speed trains is to avoid a train being overweight and it therefore affecting the braking performance.

that may be the case with TGVs and their derivatives, but it certainly doesn't apply to ICEs. I've been on 200% loaded ICEs

 

[TGV]

The reason everybody has to have an allocated seat on all high speed trains is to avoid a train being overweight and it therefore affecting the braking performance.

What absolute rubbish. Take it from an engineer on TGV's - you should find the person that told you this and slap them.

gordonthemoron - it doesnt apply to TGV family trains any more than ICE.

 

[Striker]

What absolute rubbish. Take it from an engineer on TGV's - you should find the person that told you this and slap them.

gordonthemoron - it doesnt apply to TGV family trains any more than ICE.

Can't remember how I was told but it did seem plausible to me. It might not be true but I don't think it warrants a reaction like that calling it absolute rubbish and making out that anybody believing it is an idiot. Surely the TGV is certified to carry a maximum amount of weight to allow it to brake within a certain distance from high speed. Having twice the number of passengers on board, or indeed, an unknown number, must effect the performance.

So, why do you need a reservation for the TGV?

 

[Starfish Prime]

Can't remember how I was told but it did seem plausible to me. It might not be true but I don't think it warrants a reaction like that calling it absolute rubbish and making out that anybody believing it is an idiot. Surely the TGV is certified to carry a maximum amount of weight to allow it to brake within a certain distance from high speed. Having twice the number of passengers on board, or indeed, an unknown number, must effect the performance.

So, why do you need a reservation for the TGV?

The policy in most european companies is to have all seated in long distance trains.

 

[Greenback]

Can't remember how I was told but it did seem plausible to me. It might not be true but I don't think it warrants a reaction like that calling it absolute rubbish and making out that anybody believing it is an idiot. Surely the TGV is certified to carry a maximum amount of weight to allow it to brake within a certain distance from high speed. Having twice the number of passengers on board, or indeed, an unknown number, must effect the performance.

It might help if you didn't present as fact something you once heard from someone! You could preface such assertions with 'I once heard'!

 

[gordonthemoron]

The policy in most european companies is to have all seated in long distance trains.

not in germany it isn't

 

[Southwesttrain]

It seems a shame that despite experiencing similar problems with their trains and the weather last year that Eurostar have not thought to fix the problem and earn money. Oh well...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Can't remember how I was told but it did seem plausible to me. It might not be true but I don't think it warrants a reaction like that calling it absolute rubbish and making out that anybody believing it is an idiot. Surely the TGV is certified to carry a maximum amount of weight to allow it to brake within a certain distance from high speed. Having twice the number of passengers on board, or indeed, an unknown number, must effect the performance.

So, why do you need a reservation for the TGV?

Whilst i would agree with you on that, I don't think they do test the maximum load and breaking distance under maximum load and for the TGV pov it is easier for them to take the usual amount because if there is an accident or reports of problems, they'd loose a lot of money...

 

[Striker]

It might help if you didn't present as fact something you once heard from someone! You could preface such assertions with 'I once heard'!

I presented it as fact because it was presented to me as fact by someone I didn't think not to believe! It was several years ago so I can't exactly remember who it was, but I would have taken it with a pinch of salt if it wasn't coming from someone who I thought would know, or it didn't seem plausible, which it does. I'm not saying I heard it from some bloke in the pub! At some point, when somebody tells you something you have to trust them, otherwise we'd be saying "don't believe teachers, they're just somebody else"!

I would have prefaced the assertion with "I once heard" if it was a rumour I'd got off some bloke in the pub. But it wasn't.

 

[Greenback]

The golden rule on this forum is quote sources wherever possible, otherwise I find it best to put things like IIRC, or AFAIK, just to try and avoid the sot of reaction you encountered!

I still know quite a few people who work on the railways, and I take everything I hear with a pinch of salt unless I can verify it!

 

[TGV]

I'll do the honourable thing an apologise for any offence caused. This was not intended.

Greenback raises a valid point though. I read so many "facts" on this site that I either know or suspect are not true, and in most cases I leave them alone because it gains me nothing to challenge it, but something that I personally work on is different and I hope you understand why I said something.

As an example - a 373/2 (North of London Eurostar) has the same braking equipment (with minor differences that do not affect the brake force) as a 373/1 (3 capitals set). However it still requires all seated passengers on international services despite having 200 passengers less and four 30 ton carriages less than the 3 capitals train. The braking systems are not running on the limit of performance - anyone who has felt a TGV doing an emergency stop will testify to that - it's very impressive.

Also - when a train is used to rescue passengers from another train, it does happen that you get more passengers than seats - and the brakes work without even tickling the limit of performance.

Gordonthemoron - given it's the season of good will - I propose we should agree a ICE/TGV truce!!!

Merry Christmas everyone.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

The braking systems are not running on the limit of performance - anyone who has felt a TGV doing an emergency stop will testify to that - it's very impressive.

I can vouch for that - I have experienced a full emergency stop on a TGV-A between Montparnasse and Le Mans.