Need some help

[birjay]

Hi there

I boarded a train in Bristol to Newcastle. I had my Ticket also my railcard and my Seatfoog upgrade, all good at this point.
the train guard came and checked my tickets for travel all correct so I thought. Until reaching Birmingham New street.
as the train pull out the voice all tickets please so got my phone and everything was okay until he got to the SeatFrog ticket which was not valid for the day I was travelling which was unbeknown to me as the ticket were cheated the beginning of my journe in Bristo. The person did not introduce him he told me that I was travelling in the wrong carriage and I had to move, the train was packed and with having disabilities to do with my knees I said your kidding me.
Then asking me for my details an id which gave him willing he came with a and my Id saying if you stopped use this ticke.
im now about to re dispute this with the company.

Got letter this saying that




The information was aware that it was for the wrong day is totally incorrect yes I did say I wouldn’t pay for a new upgrade and I didn’t say I wouldn’t move just how impossible it would be to get to wherever my seat was.
any ideas how to proceed with this would be mushroom appreciated. Thanks for reading my predicament

 

[AlterEgo]

Please show us the full letter with your details removed. We also need to see what you have sent to the train company to figure out what's going on.

 

[WesternLancer]

A walk up first class Bristol to Newcastle ticket is going to be pretty eye watering. I assume that’s what they are asking payment for.

Assume this is IRCAs / ITAL on behalf of Cross Country trains?

 

[Spaceship323]

To get an upgrade with seatfrog you would have to book on a specific train. Is there any reason the seatfrog ticket didn't match your train ticket? Could we see both your train ticket and the seatfrog upgrade please

 

[John R]

So simplifying this, I think what happened is you didn’t have a valid First Class upgrade, it was spotted, you were asked to move to Standard, and you refused. Is that it?

If so, I think you are going to have difficulty arguing your case successfully, but if you can provide more information as posters above have asked for then we can give a more considered view.

 

[birjay]

To get an upgrade with seatfrog you would have to book on a specific train. Is there any reason the seatfrog ticket didn't match your train ticket? Could we see both your train ticket and the seatfrog upgrade please

That is correct

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 26 Sep 2025 ==

So simplifying this, I think what happened is you didn’t have a valid First Class upgrade, it was spotted, you were asked to move to Standard, and you refused. Is that it?

If so, I think you are going to have difficulty arguing your case successfully, but if you can provide more information as posters above have asked for then we can give a more considered view.

Not quite I was given the chance to move my seat, he didnt give me time to move, before asking for my ID and coming back with ticket saying if I get stop again show this ticket. I was very naive to what was happening as I’d never been in this situation before.

 

[Haywain]

Not quite I was given the chance to move my seat, he didnt give me time to move, before asking for my ID

That's not quite true, is it? You said earlier:

he told me that I was travelling in the wrong carriage and I had to move, the train was packed and with having disabilities to do with my knees I said your kidding me.

Once you've reacted in that way you aren't going to be given a second chance.

 

[WesternLancer]

That is correct

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 26 Sep 2025 ==


Not quite I was given the chance to move my seat, he didnt give me time to move, before asking for my ID and coming back with ticket saying if I get stop again show this ticket. I was very naive to what was happening as I’d never been in this situation before.

I think it's pretty important you also upload the correspondence (from them and your reply) as asked for in post #2 - remove your personal details form anything you upload and any ref numbers.

The bottom line is that sitting in a 1st class carriage without a valid 1st class ticket or upgrade is something they are able to prosecute you in court for. They can also clearly state in court you were offered the choice of moving to standard class or paying the upgrade price on the train - but did not opt to do so - i appreciate that you may not fully have understood what you were being offered or the consequences of not doing this on the train or that it may not have been easy for you to move - but they won't care about that and I fear if it went to court the court probably would not be able to take it into account - so you would end up with some sort of court fine and a criminal record - albeit for a relatively minor offence. Whether that court fine would be more then they are asking you to pay now I don't know. You didn't have the right ticket, didn't check it carefully enough when you bought it or when you took your seat and they don't care about the customer service aspects of making a genuine mistake.

It's actually further bad luck that when your ticket was checked earlier int he journey the member of staff was not paying close enough attention to your ticket to raise the matter with you then.

So I suspect you are being offered the option of an out of court settlement for what has happed - ie you pay them the sum they are demanding or they will take you to court.

Without seeing all of the letters this is a guess based on how they typically operate however, and how much money they are asking you for (potentially a full 1st class fare for the trip and an 'admin' fee of maybe £150 is the sort of thing I'd expect them to do - so probably £500 or more?

I should say you have my sympathy with all this

Unfortunately cross country trains use a contractor for this that i suspect you are dealing with and they play hard ball and don't seem to care much about the consequences of this on people who make genuine mistakes - tho the other side of the coin is that the member of staff who spoke to you will regard the situation as one where you were given an option to resolve this at no cost to you (ie to move seats to your standard class seat even though you must have benefitted form first class for a chunk of the journey) but opted not to take it.

 

[birjay]

I think it's pretty important you also upload the correspondence (from them and your reply) as asked for in post #2 - remove your personal details form anything you upload and any ref numbers.

The bottom line is that sitting in a 1st class carriage without a valid 1st class ticket or upgrade is something they are able to prosecute you in court for. They can also clearly state in court you were offered the choice of moving to standard class or paying the upgrade price on the train - but did not opt to do so - i appreciate that you may not fully have understood what you were being offered or the consequences of not doing this on the train or that it may not have been easy for you to move - but they won't care about that and I fear if it went to court the court probably would not be able to take it into account - so you would end up with some sort of court fine and a criminal record - albeit for a relatively minor offence. Whether that court fine would be more then they are asking you to pay now I don't know. You didn't have the right ticket, didn't check it carefully enough when you bought it or when you took your seat and they don't care about the customer service aspects of making a genuine mistake.

It's actually further bad luck that when your ticket was checked earlier int he journey the member of staff was not paying close enough attention to your ticket to raise the matter with you then.

So I suspect you are being offered the option of an out of court settlement for what has happed - ie you pay them the sum they are demanding or they will take you to court.

Without seeing all of the letters this is a guess based on how they typically operate however, and how much money they are asking you for (potentially a full 1st class fare for the trip and an 'admin' fee of maybe £150 is the sort of thing I'd expect them to do - so probably £500 or more?

I should say you have my sympathy with all this

Unfortunately cross country trains use a contractor for this that i suspect you are dealing with and they play hard ball and don't seem to care much about the consequences of this on people who make genuine mistakes - tho the other side of the coin is that the member of staff who spoke to you will regard the situation as one where you were given an option to resolve this at no cost to you (ie to move seats to your standard class seat even though you must have benefitted form first class for a chunk of the journey) but opted not to take it.

Thank you, does this mean that even if they were checked just after the journey started and were found to be correct by this inspector means nothing as they must have made a mistake obviously this is not taken into account. As far as I was concerned I was in the place

 

[John R]

Thank you, does this mean that even if they were checked just after the journey started and were found to be correct by this inspector means nothing as they must have made a mistake obviously this is not taken into account. As far as I was concerned I was in the place

It doesn’t make a difference I’m afraid.

 

[WesternLancer]

Thank you, does this mean that even if they were checked just after the journey started and were found to be correct by this inspector means nothing as they must have made a mistake obviously this is not taken into account. As far as I was concerned I was in the place

well this is a bit of a theoretical point - but I suspect in reality that first inspector did not notice it was incorrect (which is not the same as "finding it to be correct" in my opinion). And are you geared up to arguing that in a Magistrates court if you need to?

A get out for these scenarios is if you were given what is called' authority to travel' by a member of staff - eg the guard - so the question would be did that person give you such authority?

My instinct is that them not noticing the wrong date on your upgrade does not count as 'authority to use first class' - but if they DID notice it and said - 'I see your upgrade is for the wrong day but I'm happy to let you sit there at no extra charge' that would count as an authority. Or better sill if you noticed that it was not valid and went to ask the guard if it was still OK to use it, and they said 'yes' then that would be an authority to sit in 1st class.

But I suspect none of that happened with the first guard?

And if it did can you prove it happened? Did that member of staff give you anything in writing or what is called 'endorse your ticket' in any way to allow you to sit in the at First class seat?

Again please show us the correspondence you have had so far and any replies you have sent to date.

 

[AlterEgo]

Thank you, does this mean that even if they were checked just after the journey started and were found to be correct by this inspector means nothing as they must have made a mistake obviously this is not taken into account. As far as I was concerned I was in the place

It isn't relevant. You didn't have a valid upgrade and you were correctly told to move by the guard.

Please show us every piece of correspondence if you want help with your situation.

 

[island]

As others say, we need to know the full story and see all correspondence. The current situation with information being drip drip dripped in won't get you useful advice.