Need some advice

[col123]

Hi

Last week I boarded a train into moorgate and the train station which I boarded from a station that does not have a ticket office just the ticket machine.

I got to moorgate and I got stopped by a fraud officer. I have a valid monthly zone 1-5 oyster but it does not cover the station which I boarded from. I don't live there. I stupidly tried to lie that I boarded from a station within zones 1-5. Anyway this was taken down and I had to sign a document by the fraud officer saying that I had lied etc which I fully admit i did do. He had read my oyster card as well which has shown that I have tapped in at moorgate a few times coming from the same direction.

I also have probably made it worse as he was aggressive towards me and I suffered a panic attack afterwards which I had to seek medical assistance for. I did put in a complaint which I probably shouldn't have.

I know that I am going to be prosecuted but what I want to understand is if they would be willing to accept an out of court settlement of over a couple of hundred pounds or will i get a worse punishment. Thanks

 

[Stigy]

Hi,

It's strange, a lot of people say the staff were aggressive towards them when they ask for advice. I'm sure that that is the case at least some of the time, but can't help but feel that some people confuse staff being assertive, with aggression. Also, some staff from different cultural backgrounds can come across as aggressive, where this isn't the case all the time.

You are correct that they'll possibly seek to prosecute you, however this isn't always the case, so let's not count our chickens just yet. You can't do anything until the TOC writes to you, and this could take several weeks depending on their workload etc. When you do receive their letter, you should give them what they ask for in terms of confirming your details. Some operators offer to remain out of court by way of a final warning, plus an admin charge (around £80 to £100 usually). They'd usually only consider this for a first offence and where no more than one offence occurred with the same incident.

Of course, you did lie about the station, which would be frowned up on, but you confessed during questioning nonetheless. If they don't mention a final written warning etc, you should ask them if they'd be willing to settle the matter by meeting any reasonable admin costs in order to remain out of court. You should apologise and confirm it was a one-off, first offence and you will never do it again. They don't have to accept your offer, but you really have nothing to lose in asking. You can offer to settle up until and including the court date, but the acceptable amount will vary depending on admin costs etc in brining a case to court.

Of course it might not come to anything, as the RPI's report could be sub-optimal or something, so play it by ear.

 

[col123]

Thank you

 

[Deerfold]

Hi,

It's strange, a lot of people say the staff were aggressive towards them when they ask for advice. I'm sure that that is the case at least some of the time, but can't help but feel that some people confuse staff being assertive, with aggression. Also, some staff from different cultural backgrounds can come across as aggressive, where this isn't the case all the time.

Whilst that's true, I've encountered a very agressive staff member at London Bridge who refused to believe my ticket was valid there because it was not valid on any SouthEastern services (which was true). He was quite unpleasant and refused to check its validity. Fortunately he passed me onto another member of staff who was also unsure of the ticket's validity but who did not act unpleasantly and was willing to check it.

 

[34D]

This is unusual. Why bother to buy a z1-5 ticket when the cost for the station you boarded at (Crews Hill or Bayford I guess) isn't much more?

 

[Clip]

This is unusual. Why bother to buy a z1-5 ticket when the cost for the station you boarded at (Crews Hill or Bayford I guess) isn't much more?

For some people a saving is a saving no matter how much it is

 

[MikeWh]

This is unusual. Why bother to buy a z1-5 ticket when the cost for the station you boarded at (Crews Hill or Bayford I guess) isn't much more?

Because the OP said he didn't live where he boarded I took that to mean he lives in zone 5.

 

[Clip]

Because the OP said he didn't live where he boarded I took that to mean he lives in zone 5.

If so then why does the Oyster show many journeys as only touching out at Moorgate? I thought all FCC stations were barriered in zone 1- 6??

 

[yorkie]

I thought all FCC stations were barriered in zone 1- 6??

I may not have been to many that recently, but based on my travels I would have thought that most are not barriered.

 

[Clip]

I may not have been to many that recently, but based on my travels I would have thought that most are not barriered.

To be honest Yorkie, I was under the impression that they done a mass roll out of them on their stations but then this begs the question as to why the RPI then stopped them at Moorgate if they do not have barried stations up the line?

 

[yorkie]

To be honest Yorkie, I was under the impression that they done a mass roll out of them on their stations

Quite possibly. I was at Harringay not so long ago and that wasn't gated though.

I'd be shocked if there were barriers at Hadley Wood, and the likes of New Barnet, Alexandra Palace and other stations I've used were all non-barriered.

Further out, a couple of years ago Welham Green didn't have barriers (and I can't imagine it would be cost-effective so I bet it still doesn't), though Hatfield & Welwyn both did. I once had to get off at Welham Green because part of our GroupSave group abandoned us and I didn't want to have a 'discussion' with gateline staff (who may have blamed us!).

but then this begs the question as to why the RPI then stopped them at Moorgate if they do not have barried stations up the line?

They may have stopped people acting suspiciously, or checked Oyster cards that had not been touched in (which isn't a problem in itself, but if the explanation doesn't make sense...) and it's also possible that the OP's Oyster card was specifically targeted as part of a 'sting' operation (this could happen to someone legitimately using Condition 19(a) or 19(c) but anyone doing so would be able to present the additional ticket(s) validating their journey).

 

[Clip]

Quite possibly. I was at Harringay not so long ago and that wasn't gated though.

I'd be shocked if there were barriers at Hadley Wood, and the likes of New Barnet, Alexandra Palace and other stations I've used were all non-barriered.

Further out, a couple of years ago Welham Green didn't have barriers (and I can't imagine it would be cost-effective so I bet it still doesn't), though Hatfield & Welwyn both did. I once had to get off at Welham Green because part of our GroupSave group abandoned us and I didn't want to have a 'discussion' with gateline staff (who may have blamed us!).

They may have stopped people acting suspiciously, or checked Oyster cards that had not been touched in (which isn't a problem in itself, but if the explanation doesn't make sense...) and it's also possible that the OP's Oyster card was specifically targeted as part of a 'sting' operation (this could happen to someone legitimately using Condition 19(a) or 19(c) but anyone doing so would be able to present the additional ticket(s) validating their journey).

I must be a roll a roll of sillyness tonight because not once did any of those stations spring to mind when I was thinking about it. I think I need a lie down

I guess you're right tho - there must have been something the OP did or had done that made the RPI suspicious as he couldve got on anywhere so I wonder what it was.

 

[jon0844]

They often do checks from FPK to MOG, especially Highbury & Islington (to cross over to the Victoria line) and I presume they question those that haven't touched in somewhere.

I bet a fair few people have a travel card loaded on Oyster (maybe just zones 1-3) but then travel in from further out. On really busy peak trains, they might avoid checks quite easily.

Or they doughnut and have a ticket at the start, for one station only.