National Routeing Guide

[OwlMan]

A new section E has been released.



Changes as below

DELETED
10007 Journeys via Cheltenham and Bristol may double back between Newport and Severn Tunnel Junction. This easement applies in both directions. (Temporary easement during engineering works)
30159 WO3957 Chessington to Basingstoke and beyond to allow doubleback between Wimbledon & Clapham Junction

TRUNCATION CORRECTED 30055 Journeys from south of Droitwich Spa or north of Dudley Port may doubleback between Birmingham New street, Smethwick Rolfe Street and Smethwick Galton Bridge. This easement applies in both directions and on Saturdays and Sundays only


SPELLING CORRECTED30160 WO4333 Error 16 at Romsey and Eastleigh for journeys Romsey to Winchester

WORDING AMENDED FROM 700115 Customers travelling from Axminster, Honiton, Feniton, Whimple, Pinhoe, St James Park and Exeter Central via Yeovil Junction using tickets routed LONDON, may not travel via Exeter St Davids and Reading. This easement applies in both directions
TO 700115 Customers travelling from Axminster, Honiton, Feniton, Whimple, Pinhoe, St James Park and Exeter Central using tickets routed LONDON, may not travel via Exeter St Davids and Reading. This easement applies in both directions

NEW
700132 Customers travelling from Salisbury to Romsey may not travel via Basingstoke. This easement applies in both directions
700133 Customers travelling from or via Leeds to Gilberdyke, Broomfleet, Brough, Ferriby and Hessle in possession of tickets routed 'Any Permitted' may not travel via Doncaster. This easement applies in both directions
700134 Customers travelling from Basingstoke to Blackwater in possession of tickets routed 'Farnborough North' may not travel via Reading. This easement applies in both directions
700135 Customers travelling from Salisbury to Stroud or Stonehouse in possession of tickets routed 'Any Permitted' may not travel via Basingstoke and Reading. This easement applies in both directions
700136 Customers travelling from Stamford to London Kings X or London St Pancras, in possession of tickets routed 'Any Permitted' may not travel via Leicester. This easement applies in both directions
700137 Customers travelling from Cholsey via Didcot Parkway in possession of tickets routed 'Any Permitted' may travel via Reading. This easement applies in both directions
700138 Customers travelling from Goring & Streatley or Pangbourne via Didcot Parkway in possession of tickets routed 'Not London' may travel via Reading. This easement applies in both directions
700139 During periods of Engineering Works customers may double back between Severn Tunnel Junction and Newport
700140 Customers travelling from Darwen or Entwistle via Salford Crescent, may travel via Bolton. This easement applies in both directions
700141 Customers travelling from all stations (Kilmaurs to Kennishead) inclusive to all stations (Thornliebank to East Kilbride) inclusive, may not travel via Glasgow Central. This easement applies in both directions
700142 Customers travelling from Holytown to Haymarket or Edinburgh in possession of tickets routed 'Any Permitted' may not travel via Glasgow Queen Street. This easement applies in both directions
700143 Customers travelling from Frizinghall, Shipley, Saltaire, Bingley, Crossflats, Keighley and Steeton & Silsden to Bradford Stations in possession of tickets routed 'Any Permitted' may not travel via Leeds. This easement applies in both directions.


Peter

 

[island]

I like the last one.

 

[swt_passenger]

WO4333 Error 16 at Romsey and Eastleigh for journeys Romsey to Winchester

That's cleared that one up then...

 

[hairyhandedfool]

I like the last one.

No mention of New Pudsey or Bramley though

 

[LexyBoy]

Customers travelling from Cholsey via Didcot Parkway in possession of tickets routed 'Any Permitted' may travel via Reading. This easement applies in both directions

I'm thinking this could be useful

 

[clagmonster]

I think that lots of these negative easements would be better served by changing the routing on the relevent tickets from any permitted to Not ...

 

[Dewedin]

I think that lots of these negative easements would be better served by changing the routing on the relevent tickets from any permitted to Not ...

Or to route Direct

 

[clagmonster]

Route Direct has lead to lots of discussions in the past about its definition, so I think it best to only use it where absolutely neccesary.

 

[Mojo]

Or to route Direct

Do you actually know what it means then?! As nobody else seems to, which is the reason why many route Direct tickets have been abolished over the last few years.

 

[flymo]

10013 Routeing via Carlisle for Edinburgh (and north/west thereof) to Newcastle
(and south thereof).This easement is to allow for engineering works at
weekends up until and inclusive of 09/10/2005. This easement is in both
directions

Are they finished yet?

 

[island]

Do you actually know what it means then?! As nobody else seems to, which is the reason why many route Direct tickets have been abolished over the last few years.

My understanding of route direct is that you are not allowed to use the Routeing Guide; you may only use the shortest route or a through train.

 

[John @ home]

My understanding of route direct is that you are not allowed to use the Routeing Guide; you may only use the shortest route or a through train.

Can you quote a source for that, please?

What route or routes are valid with a Horsforth - Scarborough ticket? The Routeing Guide gives 2 routes: via Harrogate and Malton or via Leeds and Malton. The only fares available are 'route Direct'. The shortest route is via Leeds and Malton. The route via Harrogate and Malton is less than 3 miles longer.

That's one example of why I don't know what 'route Direct' means.

 

[island]

Don't have a source, which is why I qualified it as "my understanding".

 

[clagmonster]

The wording in the NRCoC is:
"(d) The use of some tickets may be restricted to trains which take:
...
(ii) the most direct route.
These restrictions will be shown on the ticket."
http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/system/galleries/download/misc/NRCOC.pdf

My interpretation of 'most direct' would be either the shortest route or the route which involves the least changes of train.

 

[John @ home]

My interpretation of 'most direct' would be either the shortest route or the route which involves the least changes of train.

Kings Cross - Euston via Haymarket (794+ miles) can be done with one change of train and no doubling back. There is no service by National Rail Kings Cross - Euston without a change of train, so the route via Haymarket involves the least changes of train.

 

[gnolife]

can someone explain to me what the point of

700140 Customers travelling from Darwen or Entwistle via Salford Crescent, may travel via Bolton. This easement applies in both directions

would be, since, (as far as i know) the only ways of travelling from Darwen or Entwistle via Salford (excluding Bolton) would be via Burnley Leeds and Manchester Victoria, or via Lostock Hall, Preston, Wigan and Athertonm both of which are clearly absurd

 

[clagmonster]

Yes, but to the best of my knowledge there is no Kings Cross-Euston, route Direct ticket so I fail to see the relevence of that example.

In the Horsforth-Scarborough example given, the shortest route is via Leeds and York. This is the most direct route, if it is defined by distance.
Both the routes via Harrogate and Leeds would require 1 change of train, so these are equally direct if that arguement is used. Going via Hull would involve two changes of train, so would lose whichever argument is used.

 

[Deerfold]

700143 Customers travelling from Frizinghall, Shipley, Saltaire, Bingley, Crossflats, Keighley and Steeton & Silsden to Bradford Stations in possession of tickets routed 'Any Permitted' may not travel via Leeds. This easement applies in both directions.


Peter

Does that suggest that if you're coming from Cononley or Skipton then you *can* go via Leeds?

 

[John @ home]

In this post and previous posts on this forum we have had claims that Route Direct means:

• a through train from the origin to the destination
• a non-stop through train from the origin to the destination
• train(s) by the shortest route from the origin to the destination
• train(s) by the shortest route from the origin to the destination, or a route not more than 3 miles longer than the shortest route
• train(s) providing the fewest number of changes between the origin and the destination

Any more bids?

 

[OwlMan]

What about Nuneaton to Croydon Stations "+Route Direct". (It seems a odd route for "+Route Direct) Does it mean via Euston or via Olympia? Which route(s) can you use to Croydon from Olympia or from Victoria/London Bridge/St Pancras etc & which station(s) can you use at Croydon?

"According to LM staff at Nuneaton you have get a direct train to Euston & them go to Croydon". A further question (how to get to Croydon?) was answered by "whichever way you want to go!!

Peter

 

[clagmonster]

In this post and previous posts on this forum we have had claims that Route Direct means:

• a through train from the origin to the destination
• a non-stop through train from the origin to the destination
• train(s) by the shortest route from the origin to the destination
• train(s) by the shortest route from the origin to the destination, or a route not more than 3 miles longer than the shortest route
• train(s) providing the fewest number of changes between the origin and the destination

Any more bids?

Precisely why, unless there is nothing else suitable to put in the field, I think it is a bad idea.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

Yes, but to the best of my knowledge there is no Kings Cross-Euston, route Direct ticket so I fail to see the relevence of that example.

Only because someone (possibly yourself?) suggested that "Route Direct" might require a consideration of 'or the least number of changes of trains' - in which case, John @ Home's example is extremely helpful, surely?




What is so unnacceptable about the truth?
The truth is that "Route Direct" is undefined.
We don't need to exercise our imagination in an effort to try to guess what 'it' means. It is what it is. An undefined term.
Maybe someday, someone will ask a Court to give a Judegment on what that Court determines it means, in their specific circumstances, but that won't define it for all of us.

"Route Direct" has some instantions which are self-evidentially obvious, and some which will remain contentious. Is there really any more than can be said on this subject?

 

[clagmonster]

I suppose it would be an extreme example if there was such a fare. In fact, I wonder whether such an interpretation could be used to get an absurd result (probably not to this extent) where there actually is a route direct fare.