National Railcard on Oyster

[CNash]

If I get a National Railcard, can this then be used to get a discount on a weekly 1-4 Travelcard loaded onto my Oyster card? If so, then a couple more things:

1. Can I buy a discounted Travelcard from the self-service machines, or does this have to be a ticket office or newsagent job every time?

2. Time restriction on the Railcard - so what happens if I try to touch in with my Oyster card before 10am? "Seek Assistance", or does it take the right fare from my pre-pay balance? Hopefully won't be an issue as I almost never travel before 10am on weekdays.

 

[Mojo]

If I get a National Railcard, can this then be used to get a discount on a weekly 1-4 Travelcard loaded onto my Oyster card? If so, then a couple more things:

No, a railcard will only give you discounts off single Pay as You Go fares, the one-day Oyster price cap and a one-day Travelcard.
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1. Can I buy a discounted Travelcard from the self-service machines, or does this have to be a ticket office or newsagent job every time?

You can buy a one-day travelcard with Railcard discount from some of the Poms at LU stations (don't ask me which type of machine, I think I know someone who will know!)

 

[Sceptre]

You can buy a one-day travelcard with Railcard discount from some of the Poms at LU stations (don't ask me which type of machine, I think I know someone who will know!)

Isn't this a moot question as the Oyster cap is the cost of the cheapest Travelcard to cover the entire day's journeys, less discounts?

 

[Mojo]

Isn't this a moot question as the Oyster cap is the cost of the cheapest Travelcard to cover the entire day's journeys, less discounts?

Well a Day Travelcard and Oyster Pay As You Go one-day cap are still different products. Should one wish to go out of the zones on a Travelcard I could buy a ticket issued from the boundary zone which may work out cheaper. This would not be possible on PAYG.

 

[Sceptre]

Well a Day Travelcard and Oyster Pay As You Go one-day cap are still different products. Should one wish to go out of the zones on a Travelcard I could buy a ticket issued from the boundary zone which may work out cheaper. This would not be possible on PAYG.

Ah, yes. My mistake.

 

[MikeWh]

If I get a National Railcard, can this then be used to get a discount on a weekly 1-4 Travelcard loaded onto my Oyster card? If so, then a couple more things:

1. Can I buy a discounted Travelcard from the self-service machines, or does this have to be a ticket office or newsagent job every time?

2. Time restriction on the Railcard - so what happens if I try to touch in with my Oyster card before 10am? "Seek Assistance", or does it take the right fare from my pre-pay balance? Hopefully won't be an issue as I almost never travel before 10am on weekdays.

Railcard discounts are not available to purchase season tickets. One day travelcards with discounts can be purchased from self-service machines or ticket offices at NR stations (including LO). Paper travelcards are no longer available from newsagents (as of yesterday).

If you have a qualifying railcard you can get the fact loaded onto your Oyster card. You will then qualify for reduced single journey fares throughout the oyster area on tubes, dlr and national rail whenever the off-peak fares are charged. This means it happens from 9.30 rather than 10am, but does rule out between 1600 and 1900. You also get a discount on the off-peak cap which includes travel in the afternoon peak.

 

[RJ]

Paper travelcards are no longer available from newsagents (as of yesterday).

That's the official line, though in practice they should continue to sell them until their ticket stocks run out.

Isn't this a moot question as the Oyster cap is the cost of the cheapest Travelcard to cover the entire day's journeys, less discounts?

The capping system (as is everything to do with Oyster) is more complex than meets the eye. Oysters loaded with a railcard can cap at a lower rate than the equivalent discounted paper ticket.

 

[CNash]

Ok. So if I've got this straight (and trying to make sense of the info on the TFL website), the off-peak Oyster price cap in zones 1-4 is £4.80 with a Railcard.

Which works out to £33.60 per week -although since I don't always travel at weekends, this will be even cheaper. Much better than £39.40, and the Railcard pays for itself in about three weeks. Excellent.

If I am to do this, is there anything else I should be wary about?

 

[MikeWh]

If I am to do this, is there anything else I should be wary about?

1. Always touch in and touch out, preferably at gates so you have the added comfort of the gate opening
2. Set up auto top-up so you won't have to worry about your card running out of credit
3. Take a look through my site (in the sig block below)

Also, if you only make one return journey each day it may well not actually cap (although a railcard loaded oystercard used in the evening peak probably will).
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One last thing ... you need to get the railcard logged on your Oystercard at a tube station or London Overground station. You also still need to carry the railcard with you when using the Oystercard and you can't lend a friend your Oystercard while it had a railcard discount loaded onto it.

 

[iphone76]

Just out of interest, which Railcard were you thinking of using?

The only reason I ask is that according to the TFL website, only the following 5 railcards

Senior Railcard
16-25 Railcard
Disabled Persons Railcard
Gold Card
HM Forces Railcard


give you:

34 per cent off off-peak pay as you go single fares on Tube, DLR, London Overground and National Rail (previously was just National Rail and London Overground)
34 per cent off off-peak Daily price caps on the Tube, DLR, London Overground and National Rail

ie. if you were to get a Network Card, it appears the discount would not be applied, nor would a NC give you a discount off the daily (weekday) 1-4 travelcard as the minimum fare would apply.

I may be corrected, however, by someone with more knowledge on the matter.

 

[Mojo]

Network Railcard gives the discount from a 1-6, 1-9 and 1-9+W day Travelcard only.

 

[NSE]

I think the whole oyster system is completely to complicated for what its worth. I think it should work as an electronic travelcard but maybe thats too simple haha. One thing I do wonder, I come from Cambridge to Kings Cross 99% of the time using the non-stop services. Is there anyway I can buy a Cambridge to Zone 6 ticket, then Oyster from Hadley Wood? As far as I know its only gonna work if I can reach out the window at 100mphish and hit the validator :L

 

[Mojo]

I think the whole oyster system is completely to complicated for what its worth. I think it should work as an electronic travelcard but maybe thats too simple haha. One thing I do wonder, I come from Cambridge to Kings Cross 99% of the time using the non-stop services. Is there anyway I can buy a Cambridge to Zone 6 ticket, then Oyster from Hadley Wood? As far as I know its only gonna work if I can reach out the window at 100mphish and hit the validator :L

Well you can't buy a ticket TO boundary zone 6 anyway, only FROM it, so the example on the other way round, it's not possible on Oyster Pay As You Go, but if you have a travelcard on Oyster to zone 6 then it's fine.

It has its advantage in that you don't have to predict what you're doing in advance. In other areas or on buses you might end up buying a one-day ticket when in fact you would have only needed a single or return ticket, because of a change of plan.

 

[FGWman]

Network Railcard gives the discount from a 1-6, 1-9 and 1-9+W day Travelcard only.

Yes and that is only at weekends.. Mon - Fri the minimum fare will apply which I believe is £12 so no discount available. Not relevant to oyster anyway as you cannot load one onto an oyster card.

Just to add there is no such product as a National Railcard. Which railcard do you have ?

 

[MikeWh]

A National Railcard is a collective term for a railcard with national availability. It includes 16-25, senior, forces, disabled. It ought to include family, but from an oyster point of view that is a problem because oyster cards are individual while the friends and family card is for groups. It also includes the gold card which isn't really national, so I guess they've just really muddied the waters.

 

[Daniel]

You can buy a one-day travelcard with Railcard discount from some of the Poms at LU stations (don't ask me which type of machine, I think I know someone who will know!)

Really? Who might that be??


The discounted paper travelcards can be sold from MFM's and AFM's, (both the large and small touch-screen ticket machines), and QFM's (the silver card only machines, IF they can issue paper tickets, which most can't).
However, there is an issue with these at the moment - there is a function called "Child Inhibit" on these machines, which removes the option to purchase child tickets from the machines. This is supposed to be turned off outside of the peaks. However, someone in their wisdom programmed the discounted travelcards to be affected by the Child Inhibit. At the moment there is an instruction to leave the Child Inhibit function off, to allow discounted travelcards to be sold, but many stations are ignoring this, due to the vastly increased amount of child travelcards sold and used by adults if it is left off. Personally, if it's outside of the peak, where there is an open ticket office with a small/no queue, it is my opinion that it is perfectly reasonable to force a customer to come to the ticket office for a discounted ticket where documentation is required. If the ticket office is closed or busy, then of course I can understand the need for Child Inhibit being turned off on the POM's.

 

[CNash]

I'd be using the 16-25 Railcard. I just wish I'd thought of it sooner - I am 25, so I'll only get the benefit of it for a year. I'm quite annoyed with myself now - if I'd thought to get one just before my birthday in November, I could've had one for almost twice as long, as it's still valid even if you turn 26 before the expiry date.

I didn't realise that the Network Railcard doesn't grant the Oyster discount. Makes sense, I suppose - TFL would lose too much money if it did, as far more people would have one!

 

[transportphoto]

((CNash = can't you buy a 3year one online?))

 

[ainsworth74]

((CNash = can't you buy a 3year one online?))

Not after you're 24 (might be 23).

 

[CNash]

Exactly. Can't order a 3-year once you're 24, and you can only renew your card 30 days before it expires, at which point I will no longer be 25.

So I'll enjoy the discount until next Jan at least. Then back to paying standard fares until I'm 60. I was naive to think that there was a discount card that worked on London fares and was available to everyone, it seems.

 

[Paul Kelly]

Yes you can't renew the old one more than 30 days before it expires, but there's nothing to stop you having two valid cards at the same time - just buy another one the day before your 26th birthday.

 

[CNash]

Nothing to stop me? So they're not going to look at their records, see that I already have a card and think "Hang on..."? You have to verify your identity with a passport or driver's license when you order one.

 

[Paul Kelly]

You could buy it from a different station if you were worried about them remembering you or having some local records that they checked against, but as far as I'm aware stations don't have access to the centralised database of railcard holders - they just send off the paper application form that you hand in when buying the card and Atos Origin (on behalf of ATOC) maintain a central database that is fairly inaccurate and not used for anything much.

In any case it's not like you're doing anything fraudulent by holding two concurrently valid railcards, unless I've missed something?

 

[FGWman]

Nothing to stop me? So they're not going to look at their records, see that I already have a card and think "Hang on..."? You have to verify your identity with a passport or driver's license when you order one.

You could have 3 ,4 ,5 railcards if you want. You be mad to do so but nothing to stop you.

 

[CNash]

It seems you're right; there's nothing prohibiting having multiple Railcards in the Terms & Conditions. Still seems like NR would frown upon it if they were to find out, though.

 

[RJ]

You could have 3 ,4 ,5 railcards if you want. You be mad to do so but nothing to stop you.

I have a 16-25, Priv and Annual Gold Record card as well as a Travel Pass for free travel. After all that, I don't really use any of them, only the inboundary Travelcard I've had to pay full price for!

The first one was to get discounts on NR journeys which was cheaper than using the 16+ Zip card, didn't actually buy the 2nd one and the third one came free with my season ticket. Several people have multiple railcards, in fact I advise long distance travellers who've turned up having forgotten their railcard to buy another one as it's usually still cheaper than buying an undiscounted ticket.

 

[CNash]

I have a 16-25, Priv and Annual Gold Record card as well as a Travel Pass for free travel. After all that, I don't really use any of them, only the inboundary Travelcard I've had to pay full price for!

Ah, but you have lots of different Railcards. Under this new idea, I would have one 16-25 Railcard with an expiry date of January 2012, and an additional 16-25 Railcard (purchased in November, shortly before my 26th birthday) with an expiry date of November 2012.

Obviously I wouldn't carry both at once, that'd be a dead giveaway. What I was concerned about is that the application for the second card would fail, or if it succeeded, I'd get an angry letter from National Rail (or whoever) some time down the line. Like I said, according to their T&Cs they don't have anything specifically preventing this, but...

 

[MikeWh]

I managed to purchase a second family and friends railcard last summer, a couple of months before my other one was due to run out. Both were purchased online. I think I had to use a different email address, but they certainly didn't winge about the postal address being the same.

 

[RJ]

I didn't realise that the Network Railcard doesn't grant the Oyster discount. Makes sense, I suppose - TFL would lose too much money if it did, as far more people would have one!

That is not the reason why. It's to do with technical issues caused by the minimum fares - currently it's not possible for them to be charged for only part of the week. I presume it would cause havoc with the Auto Topup and entry/exit charge administrations as well. People might object to being charged £13 for a single journey. The Network Railcard has its uses, it brings the price of some outboundary ADTs down to the £15 minimum fare and of course gives the full discount on ODTs to whatever the minimum fare is now on non working days.

Ah, but you have lots of different Railcards. Under this new idea, I would have one 16-25 Railcard with an expiry date of January 2012, and an additional 16-25 Railcard (purchased in November, shortly before my 26th birthday) with an expiry date of November 2012.

Obviously I wouldn't carry both at once, that'd be a dead giveaway. What I was concerned about is that the application for the second card would fail, or if it succeeded, I'd get an angry letter from National Rail (or whoever) some time down the line. Like I said, according to their T&Cs they don't have anything specifically preventing this, but...

Like I said, I advise people who have a discounted ticket but for whatever reason, aren't carrying the appropriate railcard to buy another one.

 

[CNash]

EDIT: disregard