National Rail fares on Oyster

[nick468]

Hi,

I have just bought an Oyster card and had the daily price cap lowered to £5, because I have a 16-25 railcard. This, despite a long argument with London Underground staff insisting it is possible to do.

I was just wondering if the discounts on single journeys are calculated with the 33pc discount on top? Say for example, I have made two rail journeys, but not reached £5, would these "single journeys" have the discount applied?

Cheers,
Nick

 

[Daniel]

In their defence hey have been poorly trained in OXNR.

As fair as I am aware, the reduced rate only applies to the cap, not the single journies.

 

[Chris-P]

In their defence hey have been poorly trained in OXNR.

As fair as I am aware, the reduced rate only applies to the cap, not the single journies.

This is true on the underground, HOWEVER, the reduced rate does apply to singles made on national rail.

 

[Daniel]

Thanks for the correction, wasn't aware of that.

I suppose that compounds my earlier statement that we aren't well trained on the subject

 

[A60K]

Thanks for the correction, wasn't aware of that.

I suppose that compounds my earlier statement that we aren't well trained on the subject

Given that you're generally better trained (have informed yourself!) better than most you can be excused

I suspect there's possibly no-one who knows everything there is to know about Oyster - or if there is, they're probably not a customer-facing TfL employee! It is an extraordinarily complex system, especially now National Rail is included.

 

[RJ]

I suspect there's possibly no-one who knows everything there is to know about Oyster - or if there is, they're probably not a customer-facing TfL employee! It is an extraordinarily complex system, especially now National Rail is included.

I'm getting there...

 

[nick468]

Thanks for the replies

 

[ess]

which railcards do and which railcards don't offer this cap discount?

 

[A60K]

which railcards do and which railcards don't offer this cap discount?

AIUI Network Railcards don't, but others do - but I'm not 100% sure on that.

 

[bicbasher]

From the NRE website:

Railcards and Oyster pay as you go

Senior, 16-25, Disabled Persons and HM Forces Railcard holders can get 1/3 discounts on the adult Off-Peak Oyster pay as you go fare for most journeys on National Rail. They can also obtain a 1/3 discount on the Off-Peak daily price cap(see below). To qualify for these discounts, holders must register their Oyster and Railcard. This can be done at any London Underground ticket office or at a National Rail ticket office that issues Oyster cards. (Please note that Railcard discounts are not be shown by our Journey Planner)

 

[ashworth]

What is the correct situation regarding charging for Oyster Card journeys on National Rail between midnight and 4am. If using an Oyster Card on more than two consecutive days are these journeys added to the previous day or the next days travel.

The reason I ask is that a few weeks ago I was in London for a week and did a number of journeys in the early hours. On 2 days I reached my price cap when travelling at about 8pm in the evening and all subsequent journeys by tube and bus including those after midnight were not charged for. However, everytime I did a journey by National Rail after midnight I was charged for it. It then did not appear to be included in the following days price cap travel.

 

[bicbasher]

What is the correct situation regarding charging for Oyster Card journeys on National Rail between midnight and 4am. If using an Oyster Card on more than two consecutive days are these journeys added to the previous day or the next days travel.

The reason I ask is that a few weeks ago I was in London for a week and did a number of journeys in the early hours. On 2 days I reached my price cap when travelling at about 8pm in the evening and all subsequent journeys by tube and bus including those after midnight were not charged for. However, everytime I did a journey by National Rail after midnight I was charged for it. It then did not appear to be included in the following days price cap travel.

NRE claim the Oyster day is 0430-0429, if you've been charged for NR journeys between 0000-0429, you should contact the Oyster helpline for a refund.

 

[ashworth]

NRE claim the Oyster day is 0430-0429, if you've been charged for NR journeys between 0000-0429, you should contact the Oyster helpline for a refund.

Thanks for that information.
I was charged £2 for travelling from Clapham Junction to East Croydon at approx 2am on Tuesday 6th April.
I was then charged £2.60 for travelling from Victoria to East Croydon at approx 3am on Saturday 10th April.
Both of these were after I had already reached the £7.50 off-peak price cap well before midnight for Zones 1-6 and I had not been charged on the tube or buses.

I would ring the helpline but for a total of only £4.60, if I am kept hanging on for sometime, it may not be worth paying for the phone call as it won't be a local call.

 

[Daniel]

E-mail the oyster helpdesk instead.

 

[bicbasher]

E-mail the oyster helpdesk instead.

Good point, I did that when I was accidentely charged £6 for not touching in and out when I did in January when it seemed introducing Oyster to NR was causing some teething troubles. Takes a couple of weeks for them to reply, I received a call and a £10 refund in the end.

 

[Daniel]

Yup, it takes a fair bit longer but when I have a problem on my blue card, frankly I refuse to pay to get my own money back.

 

[transportphoto]

Shouldn't be saying this but this is the Geographical Number for TfL Main Swichboard ask for 'Oyster Ticketing & Refunds'

020 7222 5600

not sure if it works though as it is sourced from Say No To 0870 from a search for 0845 330 9876.
Number Available Mon - Fri 0800 to 1800

 

[ralphchadkirk]

Shouldn't be saying this but this is the Geographical Number for TfL Main Swichboard ask for 'Oyster Ticketing & Refunds'

020 7222 5600

not sure if it works though as it is sourced from Say No To 0870 from a search for 0845 330 9876.
Number Available Mon - Fri 0800 to 1800

Why shouldn't you be saying that when the number is published on the TfL contact website.

TfL Customer Relations
Tel: 020 7222 5600 and ask to be put through to TfL Customer Relations
Fax: 020 3054 5307
Email: enquire@tfl.gov.uk
Post: 4th Floor, Zone Y4, 14 Pier Walk, North Greenwich, London SE10 0ES

 

[transportphoto]

Why shouldn't you be saying that when the number is published on the TfL contact website.

Oh - didn't know it had been published by TfL for that use!

 

[ashworth]

Thanks for all that information. I have sent an email.
I am not over worried about the small amount of £4.60 that I was overcharged. I would just like them to investigate why I should be charged after midnight on National Rail even though I had reached the price cap. I wouldn't want it to continue to happen in the future during any visits to London

 

[Daniel]

Meh, only way these problems to be fixed is when they're highlighted, so reporting 'em is the best thing!

 

[A60K]

I agree - although if TfL could take an extra £4.60 from each Oyster user every few months that would be the hole in their budget filled ... and it would go a little way towards paying for a fleet of Borismasters!

 

[EM2]

Can someone explain this one?
I have an Oyster with a zone 1-3 season on it and I added £5 of PAYG credit.
I got a bus from Forest Gate (z3) to Ilford (z4) and that was covered by my season.
I decided to get the train back from Ilford, I tapped in and the gate showed £5.
Then when I tapped out at FG, I got a 'Seek Assistance 94' code on the reader.
When I queried it at the ticket office, he said I'd been charged £3.40 instead of £1.50 because I didn't have an OEP on the card.
Now as I understand it, an OEP is only required when travelling from your 'paid for' zones out to another zone, not coming in from outside.
I got the overpayment back at a TfL ticket office but surely that shouldn't have happened in the first place?

 

[Daniel]

94 Card communications failed


So your card hadn't been read. If you get anything in the 90's, just swipe again. Make sure you only have one card in your wallet - try taking the card out and holding it on the pad.

http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/23222/response/62007/attach/3/OEP.pdf

Try that, that's an exert from the Ticket & Revenue Handbooks which are in LUL ticket offices.

I haven't heard of an OEP being needed to travel into your zones, but I could see the logic.

The OEP basically 'snaps' your touch in-touch out journey to your season...

Touch in at LST on Z12 T/card
Touch out at ENL on PAY-G (error, no open journey)

In the above example, the OEP (which would be on your card before you touch in) would automatically link those two journies.

I can see the point in an OEP being required to snap your PAY-G journey onto your season - if I touch in on PAY-G at ENL, I don't think the card isn't smart enough to recognise your season when you touch out at LST, so it'll deduct from your PAY-G unless you have an OEP.

However, the technology must be available to link a PAY-G entry to a season, because it is done automatically if you touch in at an LUL station outside of your season and touch out at a station covered by your travelcard...

 

[ashworth]

What is the correct situation regarding charging for Oyster Card journeys on National Rail between midnight and 4am. If using an Oyster Card on more than two consecutive days are these journeys added to the previous day or the next days travel.

The reason I ask is that a few weeks ago I was in London for a week and did a number of journeys in the early hours. On 2 days I reached my price cap when travelling at about 8pm in the evening and all subsequent journeys by tube and bus including those after midnight were not charged for. However, everytime I did a journey by National Rail after midnight I was charged for it. It then did not appear to be included in the following days price cap travel.

I thought people might be interested in the reply I got.
It could be a useful warning for others to watch out for.

Thank you for your email.
Please be assured that the issue you have described is known to Transport for London’s (TfL) fares and ticketing department who are working on a solution. However, The is a problem in its current state is essentially an unavoidable consequence of the extension of Oyster pay as you go to National Rail (NR). We have done checks and found that it is extremely rare that customers are affected by it. When customers use National Rail in the small hours, the Oyster daily price capping price arrangements occasionally don’t work as intended due to the need to spread the times when the end of day/start of day processing takes place at individual stations. Thankfully we know that most customers using Oyster pay as you go on National Rail overnight are out of the scope of price capping anyway.

When the Oyster system moves over from one day to the next for charging purposes, the processing demands on the system are very heavy and to keep the system operational it is necessary to avoid having one single time point for all stations to change over. The processes have always been spread out for Underground stations, but with no impact on customers because the Underground does not operate at the hours concerned. Just occasionally customers travelling overnight with National Rail will find that the system fails to identify that their journey belongs to its correct day for capping purposes.

Having checked your journey history it has been confirmed that you were charged £4.60 more than would have been if price caps had been applied as advertised. In order for me to arrange the most suitable medium through which you can receive the refund of the above amount, please contact me direct on *********.

Please be assured that the issue is being monitored and accept that if it turns out that significant numbers of customers are being affected, we will need to make arrangements for publicising that overnight NR journeys may fall outside the arrangements for daily price capping.
I hope the information I have provided has been helpful. Feel free to contact me should you have any future queries.