National Rail App

[infobleep]

Nearly 2 months later it finally hit my phone. By chance, first I knew was looking for a platform as I was walking to Birmingham New Street. No need to laugh.

It's so unbelievably unusable on a phone screen that it shows the wrong kind of useability (sorry, 'user experience') idiots run the roost. And so obviously a cheap-as-possible wrapper around the web site, which also ought to be responsive to small screens, that it shows the wrong kind of managers are making the decisions. The official source of information ought to be the best, or close to it. This is scandalously bad. Did anyone even try testing it with a screen reader?

Thanks to this forum for the pointer to Railboard.

I wonder why Railboatd have decided to ignore all Android users. How time consuming and difficult is it to port an app from iPhone to Android?

 

[Adam Williams]

I wonder why Railboatd have decided to ignore all Android users. How time consuming and difficult is it to port an app from iPhone to Android?

I don't think Jon is ignoring Android users, but there's only one of him and maintaining one app (and keeping up-to-date with platform-specific design best practices as part of that, unless you want to ignore those and build a naff app) is a difficult job in itself!

 

[MartinZz]

Just got updated to the new "app" . Is there an alternative app or website for Android which shows past departures and ideally is more info dense?

 

[takno]

I wonder why Railboatd have decided to ignore all Android users. How time consuming and difficult is it to port an app from iPhone to Android?

Generally you'd expect it take about as much time to create the Android app as it took to create the iPhone app in the first place, although many people only actually know how to write apps for one of the two platforms, so it would potentially take months of learning to be able to do it at all. Once it's written you'd also have double the ongoing work keeping the app compatible with new versions of the phones and app store rules.

For the most part it's a lot more effort to write and maintain an app for even one of the platforms than it is to build a website. Apart from the ability to make slightly more from adverts I'm not sure why people bother.

 

[185]

Oh my word. Just seen it. That's bad.

Like a bad GCSE project. Done by someone whose never seen a train or station.

 

[TUC]

I don't doubt other apps and websites are very good. It still leaves the question of why the one which bears the National Rail branding is so third rate?

 

[MrJeeves]

I don't doubt other apps and websites are very good. It still leaves the question of why the one which bears the National Rail branding is so third rate?

Because development is outsourced to contractors that don't care or don't have experience with the UK rail industry.

Third party applications are often an artifact of passion and genuine care by people who want to improve the rail industry... at least until they become so big it just turns into a huge monetisation scheme

 

[TUC]

Because development is outsourced to contractors that don't care or don't have experience with the UK rail industry.

Third party applications are often an artifact of passion and genuine care by people who want to improve the rail industry... at least until they become so big it just turns into a huge monetisation scheme

But that's up to those issuing the contract to specify what is required, identify those with the right skills, and have the ability to judge whether what is produced does the job. They're the basics.

 

[MrJeeves]

But that's up to those issuing the contract to specify what is required, identify those with the right skills, and have the ability to judge whether what is produced does the job. They're the basics.

Someone who understands the industry would be able to bend the contract specification or at least suggest improvements!

 

[Flying Snail]

Because development is outsourced to contractors that don't care or don't have experience with the UK rail industry.

Third party applications are often an artifact of passion and genuine care by people who want to improve the rail industry... at least until they become so big it just turns into a huge monetisation scheme

The irony with that is the current NR app is in fact the third official app. Before it there were 2 developed by outside companies, the original one being a brilliant little app for real time and planning that was far superior to those that followed.

OT but why do people leave their devices set for automatic updates? It is almost guaranteed that at some point your favourite apps will be "updated" to a worse version or rendered unusable.

 

[MrJeeves]

OT but why do people leave their devices set for automatic updates? It is almost guaranteed that at some point your favourite apps will be "updated" to a worse version or rendered unusable.

I know I'd rather not be left with a buggy app because I forgot to manually update it in the last 2 months...

 

[Flying Snail]

I know I'd rather not be left with a buggy app because I forgot to manually update it in the last 2 months...

If the app is working and stable the only way it would become buggy is if you update it to a new version that is crap, exactly as has happened here.

 

[MrJeeves]

If the app is working and stable the only way it would become buggy is if you update it to a new version that is crap, exactly as has happened here.

Just because you've not found a bug, that doesn't mean one doesn't exist.

 

[infobleep]

I don't think Jon is ignoring Android users, but there's only one of him and maintaining one app (and keeping up-to-date with platform-specific design best practices as part of that, unless you want to ignore those and build a naff app) is a difficult job in itself!

If there is only one person doing it, that's impressive. I was expecting a team.

 

[nwales58]

Generally you'd expect it take about as much time to create the Android app as it took to create the iPhone app in the first place ...

For the most part it's a lot more effort to write and maintain an app for even one of the platforms than it is to build a website.

Totally agree.

Although there are cross-platform frameworks (e.g. Xamarin, just dumped) the result is generally bloated and the UI not nice as the peculiar UI conventions of each platform are not respected. Lack of a way back on iOS is one example.

Backend code ought to be cross-platform (and common to the web site etc therefore usually best as web services) but in this case that is largely the industry web APIs being called. So a new decent public rail information app could parallel the functionality of Railboard but UI written using Android framework.

Caveat, I last had anything to do with this sort of thing 5 years ago thank goodness, so possibly out of date.

 

[infobleep]

So the problem isn't really that National Rail Enquiries haven't written a decent app, it's that their Web site is rubbish, to put it politely.

With a good Web site, the app wouldn't be that important.

I have come across other Qeb site wrapper apps for larger organisations but generally, BBC aside, they have been in the distant past.

 

[takno]

So the problem isn't really that National Rail Enquiries haven't written a decent app, it's that their Web site is rubbish, to put it politely.

With a good Web site, the app wouldn't be that important.

I have come across other Qeb site wrapper apps for larger organisations but generally, BBC aside, they have been in the distant past.

Definitely agreed on that. Tbh I don't come across many wrapper apps purely because I only install an app when something can't be done on the website. The most irritating example I can think of offhand is easyJet, where they needlessly enforce an app install for boarding passes, and then the app is 90% website.

One option you probably see s bit more of on Android now is web apps in the app store, where you basically create a completely normal progressive web app and then publish the manifest in the app store. There's not even a native wrapper, just an app store listing

 

[Adam Williams]

So the problem isn't really that National Rail Enquiries haven't written a decent app, it's that their Web site is rubbish, to put it politely.

With a good Web site, the app wouldn't be that important.

I'd say it's a combination of both. Yes, the web app has usability issues that have been complained about here. But non-native apps will generally always stick out and users will prefer to use a native app where they can, even if that's mostly a subconscious preference. There will be "a bit too much latency" when you tap on buttons in the app bar of something non-native, the selection behaviour will be different, the controls won't look right etc.

 

[takno]

I'd say it's a combination of both. Yes, the web app has usability issues that have been complained about here. But non-native apps will generally always stick out and users will prefer to use a native app where they can, even if that's mostly a subconscious preference. There will be "a bit too much latency" when you tap on buttons in the app bar of something non-native, the selection behaviour will be different, the controls won't look right etc.

That's true for a significant but rapidly-declining proportion of users.

The only reason for web apps to be laggier is that the web app is badly-written or uses a lot of server-rendered pages - that's something the BBC have got significantly worse for in the last few years while other orgs have been mostly getting better. Even for fairly badly-written apps, the phone is now so fast anyway that you'll barely notice.

The "look" being wrong has largely disappeared as an issue on Android since Google seem to have given up on any kind of design standards for apps at all.

I suspect one of the reasons you don't see so many web wrapper apps anymore is that if they're done right you won't necessarily even know.

 

[Adam Williams]

The only reason for web apps to be laggier is that the web app is badly-written

I have to disagree with this. You can't expect to get same-as-native perf with a web app. Even if your source language is something like Rust and you compile it to wasm (unfortunately, you now need to have fun with shipping the standard lib surface around if you decide to do this - and it's not negligibly sized - the same drawbacks apply to tech like Microsoft's Blazor), it's still going to perform more poorly than if you were able to compile that code to run directly on the user's device. It might be quicker than a JS implementation depending on how often you're needing to do things to the DOM or otherwise "cross the barrier".

I worked on an app that was exactly designed like this for a number of years and the UX was just awful. The developer experience was also poor, and we had heaps of code to work around differences in rendering engines (usually Safari doing stupid things). And no parts of it were server-rendered, but there was still significant latency for user actions taking effect - particularly on non-flagship phones.

Let's not forget there's API surface which doesn't even have web APIs, so you'll end up writing and maintaining platform-specific janky "glue" code if you want to use this from a WebView wrapper app.

Server-rendered pages have their place for some offerings, I think. For a news reading site, I really just want to be served text/html which my browser loads. My browser will tell me when the page is loading, the progress that has been made loading it, it'll give me proper visibility of network connectivity issues and page load failures.

 

[Halwynd]

Definitely agreed on that. Tbh I don't come across many wrapper apps purely because I only install an app when something can't be done on the website. The most irritating example I can think of offhand is easyJet, where they needlessly enforce an app install for boarding passes, and then the app is 90% website.

One option you probably see s bit more of on Android now is web apps in the app store, where you basically create a completely normal progressive web app and then publish the manifest in the app store. There's not even a native wrapper, just an app store listing

I'm the same, always try to use a browser first, although I do have a couple of apps - banking for example - which are great.

For live departures I think this one is excellent:

Train departures

trains.gaelan.me

Forgive me, I might be wrong, but I think it's yours?!

 

[takno]

I'm the same, always try to use a browser first, although I do have a couple of apps - banking for example - which are great.

For live departures I think this one is excellent:

Train departures

trains.gaelan.me

Forgive me, I might be wrong, but I think it's yours?!

No, Traksy is mine. Gaelan is a really nice fast live departures view though

 

[DelW]

For live departures I think this one is excellent:

Train departures

trains.gaelan.me

Forgive me, I might be wrong, but I think it's yours?!

No, Traksy is mine. Gaelan is a really nice fast live departures view though

The owner of that site does appear on these forums. There's a passing reference to its creation in post 8 of this thread:

Which real time train running website or app is best?

Probably the best known real time train running website for the national rail network is Real Time Trains (realtimetrains.co.uk), but there are others such as Open Train Times (opentraintimes.com) and Live Train Times (https://live.rail-record.co.uk). Which site or app would you say is best? I...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[Halwynd]

No, Traksy is mine. Gaelan is a really nice fast live departures view though

My apologies. I do use Traksy though, and that is great too! Thank you for making it available.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Sep 2024 ==

The owner of that site does appear on these forums. There's a passing reference to its creation in post 8 of this thread:

Which real time train running website or app is best?

Probably the best known real time train running website for the national rail network is Real Time Trains (realtimetrains.co.uk), but there are others such as Open Train Times (opentraintimes.com) and Live Train Times (https://live.rail-record.co.uk). Which site or app would you say is best? I...

www.railforums.co.uk

My mistake, many thanks for that.

 

[BAFRA77]

Tried to use it yesterday once it had updated to find next trains from Worcester to Birmingham.

According to the awful app - there were no trains running at all between the two for the 6 hours of Saturday afternoon and evening.

Have gone over to Railboard now

 

[318 Ayrline]

The latest version of the National Rail App is infuriating. There are loads of circumstances where you are now locked out from looking at journey details. It is any situation where the app decides it can’t offer you a ticket for that service.

What on earth is going on. This is primarily an information app not a ticket portal. How am I meant to check where I am meant to change, the timings of change etc if I happen to be on a service that has fake ‘sold out’. Are you not entitled to that information any more. Are you just meant to miss your change and end up somewhere else?

Now I have found another version of the problem. Where no through ticket is available. The attached is the journey from Sheffield to East Midlands Airport. I can’t click in to the journey to check the nature, location and timing of the change.

Who on earth signed off on this design. It simply does not work. It is absolutely ridiculous for a supposedly serious organisation whose whole purpose is to provide information about National rail journeys.

Exactly especially as I was involved in the original app.

Allegedly they did this
Thanks for taking the time to email us. I was sorry to learn that you’re unhappy with the way the information is displayed on our new app, and I understand that you prefer the old version of our app.

I’ve forwarded your comments to our Customer Experience Team, and they will certainly look into it.

If you would prefer an alternative option, I would recommend that you plan your journey on a Train Operating Company's website to get the required information. I'm pleased to include a link below that you can access to visit any Train Operating Company’s website:

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Sep 2024 ==

Exactly especially as I was involved in the original app.

Allegedly they did this
Thanks for taking the time to email us. I was sorry to learn that you’re unhappy with the way the information is displayed on our new app, and I understand that you prefer the old version of our app.

I’ve forwarded your comments to our Customer Experience Team, and they will certainly look into it.

If you would prefer an alternative option, I would recommend that you plan your journey on a Train Operating Company's website to get the required information. I'm pleased to include a link below that you can access to visit any Train Operating Company’s website:

Thanks for your response. I understand that you would like to know whether a survey was conducted before the release of our new app.

Please be assured that user testing was conducted during the development of our new app, and the general consensus was that it was an improvement over how information was displayed on our old app.

While we are sorry that you no longer like the way information is presented, there isn’t anything that we can do to resolve your concerns about the functionality and user interface of our new app.

Having said that, we understand that some people will enjoy and like the changes, and others will prefer it how it was in its previous form.

I trust this information clarifies the situation, and I appreciate the time and effort you’ve taken to share your concerns with us.

Thanks again for contacting us, and I will be pleased to assist you if you have any further questions.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Sep 2024 ==

On the Android Play store listing the first screenshot shows a section titled "Test Live Trains free form text component edited", not exactly a great first impression.

A later screenshot has an error "Calling points failed to load".

Many of the screenshot have a red banner "Major disruptions (2)", surely you'd mock up good service and ensure that no app errors were showing when showcasing the app.

I wonder if the marketing team even looked at these before they were published.

I understand that you would like to know whether a survey was conducted before the release of our new app.

Please be assured that user testing was conducted during the development of our new app, and the general consensus was that it was an improvement over how information was displayed on our old app.

While we are sorry that you no longer like the way information is presented, there isn’t anything that we can do to resolve your concerns about the functionality and user interface of our new app.

Having said that, we understand that some people will enjoy and like the changes, and others will prefer it how it was in its previous form.

I trust this information clarifies the situation, and I appreciate the time and effort you’ve taken to share your concerns with us.

Thanks again for contacting us, and I will be pleased to assist you if you have any further questions.

 

[RogerMT]

Why are so many app "improvements" these days the exact opposite? One of the most useful features of the National Rail app before the recent update was the ability to set up individual journey alerts for disruption and delays. After the update, the journey alerts feature is counter intuitive and harder to find, and when you have found it, it doesn't work, but instead sends you to the journey planner page, where you just came from to get to the alerts section!
I suspect now that it is run via a browser and not as a dedicated app, that the whole update is a cost cutting measure, that will have the effect of making folk dump the app altogether. Which is probably the underlying intention so they can scrap it.

 

[318 Ayrline]

Sadly yes

 

[Mainline421]

Interestingly I have an Xperia 5 IV (first released almost exactly two years ago today) running the latest Android 14 and according to the Play Store version 9.652 of the NRE app is still the most up to date

 

[ainsworth74]

I don't doubt other apps and websites are very good. It still leaves the question of why the one which bears the National Rail branding is so third rate?

I guess because no-one really owns it as such? It's within the purview of the Rail Delivery Group but that means it's very arms length from the TOCs that actually deliver the railway services which National Rail is intended to be informing people about. It also means that there's almost certainly not much money available to spend on the website itself and developing an app for the service.

And why should there be? The TOCs do their own apps (with varying degrees of success) and their own websites as well. It's not in their interest to provide money to RDG to upgrade National Rail, they've got their own patch covered by their own apps and websites. Why on earth would they contribute to a third party app/website when the benefit to their own services is negligible? After all if your a customer of TOC X why would you not just use TOC Xs website/app (from their point of view)?

I would hope that this is something that GBR might get to grips with either via the National Rail branding itself or in a new GBR form. It seems beyond obvious that there's a need for a proper do it all app/website, which is given sufficient resources to actually deliver a good service, for the railway network. But on the structure we've had since the 1990s it seems quite obvious how we've ended up with the rubbish we've gotten via National Rail.