The NX Hydrogen buses haven't done many miles since they were introduced!
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National express West Midlands
- Thread starter Samuel88
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The NX Hydrogen buses haven't done many miles since they were introduced!
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R
RailUK Forums
Most of the NX hydrogens are under 25 000 miles.
I'll be honest I'm surprised it's that high.
Wyrleybart
Established Member
It would be interesting to know the truth here. Are the hydros actually unreliable, or is it simply the fuelling of them that is the problem ? I have just completed my eight days / 7 nightshifts in Birmingham city centre using the A34 for part of my journey, and think I have seen hydros on every one of my commutes.
They’re only used Monday-Friday daytimes. No weekends or late nights.
Saturdays are 47XX/48XX/67XX, Sundays on the 51 is 67XX only normally.
Also I think out of about 20 they only use like 8 of them a day.
Before the supply of hydrogen ran out, the Aberdeen ones were only being used daytime Monday to Friday. I think it was due to the cost of hydrogen compared to diesel or electric, so that may be the reason. Aberdeen had previously been paying a diesel equivalent price for the hydrogen but that must have ended resulting in no weekend and only peak time working.
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You may have seen a few over the last 7 days, but given they are 4 years old and have only done 25,000 miles, weather it's fuel supply or reliability, it doesn't paint a good picture.
Bear in mind the average car owner does 10,000 a year, these buses have done half of what the average car would have done in a similar timeframe!
Wyrleybart
Established Member
Oh no Russel, I agree entirely, especially given the fact Birmingham City Council are effectively bankrupt partly due to their self created gender paygap litigation. The fleet should have been used properly or resold. Not sure how the finances stack up as I imagine NXWM are keeping an extra 15-18 diesel buses on the road to cover for them - no Hydros out today on the 51 according to bustimes.
One of the reasons that the ALX400’s are still around at Walsall is due to covering the Hydroliners. There have been many times this year where they made appearances on the X51 where the Hydroliners are allocated to.
Also, since NX West Mids have sold the Streetdecks to Arriva Merseyside, could the Hydroliners also be sold off to somewhere (providing that they are wanted by an operator due to their issues). It’s probably a more difficult task, however at least attempting to sell them would be a good move personally - the Streetdeck electroliners at Wolverhampton are going to create fleet movements, so diesel deckers could be moved from Wolverhampton to Walsall to replace the Hydroliners.
I’ve heard they might be planning on getting rid of their B5TL Gemini 2’s in the near future as well, so they are definitely aiming to standardise things more!
Wyrleybart
Established Member
Yes. I imagine the new Electroliners will oust some of the ALXs - move from Park Lane to West Brom and Walsall to see of the Geminis and to Walsall to see of the remaining Tridents. I guess the Geminis and Tridents will be off to the scrapyard when their MOTs run out.
Saturday timetables in place over Christmas, so they probably won’t be out till January now.
Also NX have lost the WN 25, AG 73, PN 19, CV 24/25/85 from the start of the month. So maybe a few more scanias will go.
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Potentially Crawley/Metrobus or Aberdeen? That assumes either gets their filling station working properly. Crawley/Metrobus seems pretty committed to hydrogen, while Aberdeen's latter orders have been battery electric.
TfLCR/Merseytravel got lucky; the buses had enough technical issues that Alexander Dennis agreed to cover the cost to convert them to electric.
Indeed, very expensive assets to have doing very little for years on end.
Didn't realize these had gone, are any in service yet with Arriva?
That'll be a shame if true, I remember when they were first introduced in early 2012 (I think!), I waited around on Colmore Row for what felt like ages for one to turn up because I was desperate to try one! Always had a soft spot for them.
gka472l
Member
Yes, all 5 Streedecks are now in service in Liverpool with Arriva as 4700-4704.
4704 https://www.flickr.com/photos/dmc1947/54995989814/in/dateposted/
HTH
Thanks.
Could they not have at least got the logo above the doors straight or the web address not split between lower and upper panels? Typical Arriva "that'll do" attitude.
I can understand your desperation to get them, I‘ve seen pictures of when they were green and white. I quite liked them in that colour scheme, I presume they were in those colours when brand new?
The B5TL’s at least will be around for a bit yet, I’m sure it’s no news with the ALX400’s, B7TL Geminis and Scania Omnilinks leaving with the next fleet movements with the Electroliners arriving at Wolverhampton.
Looks like a few of the 61 plate E400’s have moved from Wolverhampton > Walsall to fill in for Tridents.
EnviroExplorer
Member
Pretty confident the Hydroliners are not owned by NXWM, or if they are, selling them wouldn’t be as simple as other buses, as the council have had such involvement in their procurement and operation. There’s a lot of misconceptions about these vehicles (not necessarily from your quoted post!), they’re only ‘unreliable’ because of the lack of hydrogen fuel, which is entirely out of the operators hands. When the hydrogen has been available they’ve settled down as perfectly good buses, and can be seen on all day 51 diagrams regularly of late, their regular route between Birmingham and Walsall owing to the ‘Sprint’ upgrades with additional, albeit minimal in my view, infrastructure along the route, again going back to the council’s involvement with them. As a local I’ve rarely seen these broken down and certainly not anymore so than diesel counterparts.
As for the Gemini 2 Hybrids, they’ve recently started having next stop equipment installed which indicates they are here to stay. Must admit I am quite surprised as other areas are phasing these vehicles out, NXWM themselves have really struggled keeping even half on the road at the worst periods, currently bustimes shows just 4 not used in the last month however which isn’t bad so they must have got on top maintenance lately!
Also staying put despite rumours are the Enviro Hybrids at Wolverhampton, where they are expected to remain to help increase capacity on local routes there, with Eclipse 2 single decks transferring out to remove more Scania Omnilinks, and the new Electroliners making up the rest of the double decker allocation at Wolverhampton.
I expect there will be a major cull of the aforementioned types imminently, particularly with service levels now down for the holidays (re withdrawals this has frequently happened with NXWM over the last few years) and more Electroliners no doubt entering service in the new year. I for one will be sad to see them all go having grew up around them, but they’ve lasted well longer than expected. As for those 61 plate E400s, those will no doubt be Trident replacements, looks like most will be ran until MOT expiry or anything goes wrong that requires an expensive repair (Worth noting said E400s available to cascade from Wolverhampton were in fact new to Walsall for route 51).
Yes, delivered in green and white with leaf decals, they looked rather good.
Regarding the ALX400s and B7TLs, the earliest E400s are only a few years newer, so we may start seeing them leave within a couple of years. I used to enjoy the original batch of E400s in toothpaste livery on the Sutton Lines!
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Regarding the B5's, I've just remembered I have a photo of one from Dec 11, from memory it had been in service about a week.
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The Hydroliners being Council owned would make sense, being Wrightbus products, ADL were the main manufacture which NX bought from with the MMC’s and the EV’s in the early 2020’s. I understand that the Hydroliners have seen more use recently which is good to see.
That’s interesting to hear, I know it was likely that they wouldn’t be affected by the current fleet movements. I had seen that B5TL 5513 hadn’t been tracking since 2023 and pictures suggested that it isn’t out in use.
I wonder if these B5TL’s have been through at least one or more engines in their times being smaller and less powerful, I‘d imagine they will wear more. B5TL 40613 at Diamond East mids was off a couple of times this year with engine issues, and it’s newer than the NX ones.
I would hope that the earliest E400’s would make it to the 20 year mark like the ALX400 Tridents have. It’s just under 18 months away which is quite scary to think about. From video footage, in general they seem to be very good performers, and seem quite rapid still for their age.
I’m not sure if the zero emissions plan for 2030 would have an affect on their withdrawal date, however the newer E40D’s would definitely be withdrawn prematurely if they are sticking to this plan. A bit too far away yet to speculate…
Brum900
Member
The franchising documents stated the Hydroliners are leased from Birmingham City Council at a peppercorn rate and will pass to NX ownership in 2028, although with Walsall being part of the October 2027 tranche of franchising and with WMCA looking to acquire the fleet, who knows.
The next stop equipment has been in the Hybrid Geminis from new but to see them actually working on their usual Pershore Road haunts is extremely rare.
The next stop equipment has been in the Hybrid Geminis from new but to see them actually working on their usual Pershore Road haunts is extremely rare.
Wyrleybart
Established Member
Regarding the 5400 and 5500 hybrids, I believe some of one of the fleets had the hybrid gear stripped out and received "higher spec" Euro diesels.
How many, was it Geminis, or both fleets please ?
TIA
Now you mention it, I do recall it in use when they were used on the 22 originally.
Volvo B7TL Wright Gemini 4477 looks likely to fall next, MOT expires in just a few days, and with the electrics swarming around and transfers coming out, I don’t expect an MOT renew for it sadly.
It’s my personal favourite non heritage vehicle in the NX fleet as it’s the example which was chosen to be modelled by corgi when it was branded for the line 33 in the red/white/blue colour scheme.
It’s my personal favourite non heritage vehicle in the NX fleet as it’s the example which was chosen to be modelled by corgi when it was branded for the line 33 in the red/white/blue colour scheme.
Brum900
Member
The electrics aren't exactly swarming yet though, there's only around 12 of the first planned 50 available for service so far.
Maybe some of the oldies will get another stay of execution unless there's a lot of progress before the schools go back.
I was also referring to the electrics in the West Mids generally, not just the recent batch. The amount which have been added to the fleet list on bus times definitely looks like they are taking over fast, but I take your word that around 12 out of 50 isn’t that many.
I wondered if the MOT renewal process may be different with each garage depending on where will receive transfers, 4491 at Acocks green is quite a recent one to receive a new MOT within the last couple of months. If West Bromwich aren’t receiving transfers just yet, it may give me some hope that the likes of 4477 will be retested!
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That brings back memories, I was a regular user on the Sutton routes at the time and always got a little excited when a Line 33 Gemini turned up!
ValleyLines142
Established Member
Any Wolverhampton/Pensnett people know when the 15/16 route changed? Used to be able to get a direct 15 from Waterdale in Wombourne to Bent Street in Brierley Hill in the evening but now looks as if you have to get the 16 requiring a change at Amblecote onto the 6 and just miss the connection by the look of it!
Ridercross
Member
These changes were from the 1st June 2025 I think.
The 15 now runs Wombourne (not via Brickbridge Lane) to Merry Hill via Brierley Hill Monday to Saturday daytimes. In the Evenings and Sundays it runs Wall Heath to Merry Hill only.
So yes in the Evenings you need to get the 16 and either change to the 6 or change onto the 15 at Wall Heath.
4477 now withdrawn, as well as 4611, 4688, 7019. Any of these older vehicles that need money spending on them are withdrawn I believe
Oldest numerically in service is now 4479 & just 5 of the 70XX scanias left now
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Indeed, they are dropping quite fast now, especially the Tridents which are down to the last ten (excluding the training ones)
It’s understandable that NX aren’t spending money on them anymore if they’ve got transfers planned. Gutted about 4477 being withdrawn, but the other 44** Geminis seem to be holding up incredibly well given that they are close to 23 years old!
A few more of the 46** Geminis which haven’t been out for a couple of weeks are the ones to be looked at next for withdrawal in my view (unless it’s just ticket machine related!)
The Omnilinks still seem to be strong in numbers at this stage despite many being withdrawn in recent months.
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