National Express Coaches Discussion

[Smethwickian]

Is Leeds amongst them?

I can't see that happening

The four sites NOT seeing a reduction in the number of (full-time equivalent) staff numbers this time will be Gatwick Airport, Golders Green, Milton Keynes and Stansted Airport, although those four "will undergo further review to ensure they are operating as efficiently as possible".

 

[Bletchleyite]

More staff cuts announced today. Approximately 25 jobs to go in total at 14 staffed coach stations, including Bournemouth being de-staffed completely. A consultation process is under way with the aim of implementing changes by the end of October.
The decline in standards and customer service continues....

The problem is that the coach market is largely price driven - people won't (can't afford to) pay more for better service. Thus if Flix is cheaper Flix wins regardless of overall service quality.

 

[Wawanesa]

More staff cuts announced today. Approximately 25 jobs to go in total at 14 staffed coach stations, including Bournemouth being de-staffed completely. A consultation process is under way with the aim of implementing changes by the end of October.
The decline in standards and customer service continues...

I had an interesting chat with a (relatively new) director of Mobico at their recent AGM. He was of the opinion that National Express was behind the times and was operating too many routes that were never going to be profitable. Maybe there was a recognition that they had neglected the coach side of the business while they sorted out the problems in other areas of the group. Whether the current changes are the right ones are debatable. He was very much of the opinion that express coaches have a better image in other countries than in the UK. He felt that the National Express livery was outdated which is ironic when you consider how it was first received back in 1972. However it has to be said that there wasn't such a thing as "dealer white" back then so maybe it is time for a change.

 

[Bletchleyite]

He was very much of the opinion that express coaches have a better image in other countries than in the UK.

Interesting. I'd have said NatEx had a good image with modern coaches with nice interiors. The trouble is that anyone who can afford to drives,
flies or goes by train (because coach is so slow), largely leaving only the market that can only afford coach, which means the only thing that matters is price.

Flix nonetheless seem to project a good image from the outside too.

He felt that the National Express livery was outdated which is ironic when you consider how it was first received back in 1972. However it has to be said that there wasn't such a thing as "dealer white" back then so maybe it is time for a change.

The current livery isn't the 1972 one bar it being white. I did think the font was out of date (very 90s) from the day they started with it. To me the previous "blob to blob" logo looked more modern.

I really don't think anyone cares what colour it is though as long as it's cheap, and like the way Ryanair, easyJet and Wizz have walked all over the legacy airlines Flix is doing so to NatEx with their much lower cost base.

 

[nick291]

Interesting. I'd have said NatEx had a good image with modern coaches with nice interiors. The trouble is that anyone who can afford to drives,
flies or goes by train (because coach is so slow), largely leaving only the market that can only afford coach, which means the only thing that matters is price.

Flix nonetheless seem to project a good image from the outside too.



The current livery isn't the 1972 one bar it being white. I did think the font was out of date (very 90s) from the day they started with it. To me the previous "blob to blob" logo looked more modern.

I really don't think anyone cares what colour it is though as long as it's cheap, and like the way Ryanair, easyJet and Wizz have walked all over the legacy airlines Flix is doing so to NatEx with their much lower cost base.

Flix has also partnered with well known bus companies/groups with a good reputation, so they have that also going for them.

That’s not to say NatEx don't/didn't, but I don't think many, if any people have heard of some of their partner operators if that make sense.

 

[BuhSnarf]

Between Leicester and London the Flixbus and NatEx prices are pretty comparable usually so I just pick whichever is offering the cheaper price.

Flixbus is usually my preferred option for a couple of options:

1) The ability to book the seat next to me - if I'm travelling on my own I don't want someone next to me and I don't belive NatEx offer this yet.
2) FlixBus tend to actually enforce seat reservations whereas I've found NatEx to not always bother.
3) FlixBus tend to have friendlier staff in my experience.

I would argue that people do care about the colour of the bus as Flixbus' luminous green is both a great advert but also makes spotting your coach dead easy.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I would argue that people do care about the colour of the bus as Flixbus' luminous green is both a great advert but also makes spotting your coach dead easy.

I think people need to know what colour the coach is so they can see it (and flag it down if at a roadside stop) but I don't think it's crucial whether it's pink, white or green. I do agree Flix's look is modern and attractive, but I don't think people would choose one over the other on that basis - because almost everyone willing to pay more uses another mode*, it just comes down to price for most.

* Scotland may be a bit different due to its poorly developed rail network, but if you've got a coach going from Manchester to London for £20 and a WMT train (with a change at Crewe) going for £25, the coach takes 5 hours and the train takes 3-3.5 depending on connections, almost everyone will pay that extra fiver unless on a *really* tight budget. Of course if GBR make a mess of that fare differential, it's possible coach's market could grow.

 

[BuhSnarf]

I think people need to know what colour the coach is so they can see it (and flag it down if at a roadside stop) but I don't think it's crucial whether it's pink, white or green. I do agree Flix's look is modern and attractive, but I don't think people would choose one over the other on that basis - because almost everyone willing to pay more uses another mode*, it just comes down to price for most.

* Scotland may be a bit different due to its poorly developed rail network, but if you've got a coach going from Manchester to London for £20 and a WMT train (with a change at Crewe) going for £25, the coach takes 5 hours and the train takes 3-3.5 depending on connections, almost everyone will pay that extra fiver unless on a *really* tight budget. Of course if GBR make a mess of that fare differential, it's possible coach's market could grow.

Agree, but when you're deciding what coach to use it's likely you'll have seen a FlixBus as it's very bright and noticeable.

Certainly when my kids have wanted to take the bus they've all just looked at FlixBus and probably woudln't know what National Express is.

 

[Cesarcollie]

Flix has also partnered with well known bus companies/groups with a good reputation, so they have that also going for them.

That’s not to say NatEx don't/didn't, but I don't think many, if any people have heard of some of their partner operators if that make sense.

Certainly with NX (and I suspect Flix) there is no need for a customer to have any idea of who actually runs the vehicle, and indeed NX effectively prohibited any public reference to operator identity save for the legal address which they couldn’t influence! So whether a customer has ‘heard of’ the partner operator doesn’t really matter.

 

[Titfield]

Is Leeds amongst them?

I can't see that happening

Consultation? Outcome pre determined. I forecast National Express coaches ceasing operations within 18 months.

 

[Fletcj10]

Hypothetically of course, but do you think Flix could buy NatEx? take away money from this and maybe the 2 brands could then work together if that makes sense, use the NatEx brand but the back office etc of Flixbus?

 

[JonathanH]

Hypothetically of course, but do you think Flix could buy NatEx? take away money from this and maybe the 2 brands could then work together if that makes sense, use the NatEx brand but the back office etc of Flixbus?

Why would Flix need to buy National Express if they are going out of business in any case? Flix didn't buy Megabus but managed to see them leave the market. What are the assets of National Express that Flix would want to buy?

 

[MotCO]

The Competition and Markets Authority would not allow Flix to buy NX. And I agree, why would they want to buy them when they can watch NX collapse and pick up the routes for nothing.

 

[tram21]

I can definitely see ember 'taking over' National Express (in the way that Flixbus 'took over' megabus')

Ember are expected to expand to England next year, and I would expect that Nat Ex would just be completely destroyed if I competition with Ember.

 

[JonathanH]

Ember are expected to expand to England next year, and I would expect that Nat Ex would just be completely destroyed if I competition with Ember.

Is there a place for two operators in the English coach market. If National Express are struggling against Flixbus, why would another operator (Ember) enter the market? I don't really see how that makes economic sense.

That said, presumably Flixbus are hoping to increase prices once National Express are off the scene? There would still seem to be some gap between coach and rail prices, and a clear desire from the railway to increase its long distance prices.

 

[route101]

Who knows what will happen!

Will NX slim down there operations?

 

[tram21]

Is there a place for two operators in the English coach market. If National Express are struggling against Flixbus, why would another operator (Ember) enter the market? I don't really see how that makes economic sense.

That said, presumably Flixbus are hoping to increase prices once National Express are off the scene? There would still seem to be some gap between coach and rail prices, and a clear desire from the railway to increase its long distance prices.

Ember offers an incredible product compared to national express.

Electric coaches, free change & cancellation, set fares and is just overall much more user friendly.
Ember also appear much more focused on knowing where the market is, and is also appears great at attracting brand loyalty.

I agree there's only space for two, but it would be my opinion that Ember would overshadow Nat Ex or Flixbus in any case.

We'll have to see what happens of course!

 

[Andyh82]

More staff cuts announced today. Approximately 25 jobs to go in total at 14 staffed coach stations, including Bournemouth being de-staffed completely. A consultation process is under way with the aim of implementing changes by the end of October.
The decline in standards and customer service continues....

Happens in all sectors where a legacy middle of the road brand is competing on price with a budget operation

Look for example at how the major supermarkets have mostly removed deli counters, bakeries etc because people only care about price. Overall it just means everything is more basic with no frills.

In this case, im not sure why people are excited about the prospect of National Express closing down which would leave only a single coach operator, higher fares and probably much slimed down, as Flixbus would be under no obligation to run anything anywhere off the main routes

 

[Titfield]

Happens in all sectors where a legacy middle of the road brand is competing on price with a budget operation

Look for example at how the major supermarkets have mostly removed deli counters, bakeries etc because people only care about price.

In this case, im not sure why people are excited about the prospect of National Express closing down. Seems to be something of a trend on this forum for some reason.

I am not excited about the prospect of NExp closing down but there is a thought of "if they do it will serve them right" because they have become incredibly inept pver the past few years.

Admittedly my experience of them is limited however as someone who does travel between Poole / Bournemouth and Heathrow Airport on a regular basis they have fannied around with constant timetable changes and inconsistent pricing. If the service goes via Winchester and Southampton then the extended journey time takes away one of its strong USPs compared with rail. Likewise if the fares are high (as they are increasingly for flexible fares) then again the advantage compared with rail is diminished.

The pick up point at LHR T5 is dire. When I contacted Nexp about this they advised it was the airports issue and not theres. This short sighted view of the consumer offering beggars belief.

The cost of a coach card was increased very significantly without any prior notice earlier this year. It is now just below the equivalent railcard rate which has far greater usefulness. Again one of the USPs versus rail has been eroded to the point it is meaningless.

 

[route101]

Are we expecting more service cuts?

I think most coach passengers just want to get from A to B as cheap as possible.

I would love to see a premium overnight offering on the Scotland to London overnights but never works.

 

[Titfield]

Are we expecting more service cuts?

I think most coach passengers just want to get from A to B as cheap as possible.

I would love to see a premium overnight offering on the Scotland to London overnights but never works.

I think that is mainly true but some do factor in some sort of time versus money saving benefit.

There are some very cheap advance rail fares which I think for many tip in favour of going by rail as for only a little more money the journey is a lot quicker.

One of Nexps usps was that they sometimes served towns without a rail station but the route cut backs seemed to have adversely impacted them.

 

[nick291]

What are the assets of National Express that Flix would want to buy?

Coach stations, Birmingham could be an integrated hub for Flix, instead of the on street stop at Charles St. Queensway for example.

 

[pitdiver]

I read up thread that NX are de-staffing a number of coach stations. As I was at one time the Customer Experience Manager at MK Coach way I was wondering why that site is not being de-staffed. Is it I that the reason why is that NX staff now have to secure the site when they finish their shift. As a matter of interest does anybody know how many NX employees are based there..

 

[route101]

I think that is mainly true but some do factor in some sort of time versus money saving benefit.

There are some very cheap advance rail fares which I think for many tip in favour of going by rail as for only a little more money the journey is a lot quicker.

One of Nexps usps was that they sometimes served towns without a rail station but the route cut backs seemed to have adversely impacted them.

I am happy to pay more for a quicker journey on rail but there is coach passengers that want it as cheap as possible.

National Express tends to attract older passengers whereas on Flixbus its younger and international demographic.

 

[Statto]

Having a quick look on National Express Liverpool-London route for 13th/14th October (i'm not making the trip just intrigued what the fares are & comparing it to Flixbus), fares for the daytime coaches are £9.40 single, were as the 01.45 service it's £28.40 which is a bit steep, most journey's now take around 7 hours.

By contrast Flixbus for the overnight service is £20.49 for the 13th or £22.49, for the 14th, with day fares ranging from £6.49 to £11.99, most journeys take around 6 hours.

Both companies have a stop in Birmingham on the Liverpool-London route, National Express goes through Manchester which adds an extra hour to the service.

If i was making the trip by coach, i'd use Flixbus now, & won't consider National Express anymore.

 

[F Great Eastern]

Airport Bus Express now starting to operate some trips on the 777 for National Express as well as the 717 now with their basic spec'd Mercs.