National Express Coaches Discussion

[kernowbususer]

I noticed this news article: https://www.itv.com/news/westcountr...s-scraps-503-penzance-to-london-coach-service

The local MP has tabled an Early Day Motion in Parliament calling for National Express to reinstate the service and further expand provision in North Cornwall and other areas not served by mainline rail services.

https://edm.parliament.uk/early-day-motion/62440

Motion text​

That this House deeply regrets the cancellation of the National Express 503 service between London and Penzance on 3 September 2024; notes that the 503 service offered inter city connections for people living in and around the town of Launceston which is not served by a mainline railway station or other coach services; further notes that local bus services do not offer a frequent or reliable method for people in Launceston to travel by public transport to other towns served by railway stations or inter city coach routes; further regrets the negative impact that this cancellation will have on residents, businesses and visitors to the area; calls on National Express to reinstate the 503 service as quickly as possible; further calls on National Express to consider introducing or reintroducing coach routes serving the towns of Bodmin, Bude, Camelford, Launceston, Padstow, St Columb Major and Wadebridge; and urges the Government to consider taking steps to ensure that inter city coach services are available to people living in and around towns in rural areas like North Cornwall that are not served by mainline rail services.

 

[Titfield]

Going off topic here but it wouldn't exactly be at the same cost base though due to the bulk buying power of the big groups

Bulk purchasing power versus the costs of additional layers of management and reporting that seem an unavoidable part of being a big group.

 

[Mwanesh]

The local MP has tabled an Early Day Motion in Parliament calling for National Express to reinstate the service and further expand provision in North Cornwall and other areas not served by mainline rail services.

https://edm.parliament.uk/early-day-motion/62440

Never carries too many passengers .I also dont think the MP knows about driving hours .Exeter and Plymouth are the main destinations and Newquay in summer.Other than that its empty most of the time

 

[Titfield]

Never carries too many passengers .I also dont think the MP knows about driving hours .Exeter and Plymouth are the main destinations and Newquay in summer.Other than that its empty most of the time

Exactly wanting to put on services in the misguided belief there is a demand. The reality is that a very large part of the population has access to a car and will continue to use that.

 

[Eyersey468]

The local MP has tabled an Early Day Motion in Parliament calling for National Express to reinstate the service and further expand provision in North Cornwall and other areas not served by mainline rail services.

https://edm.parliament.uk/early-day-motion/62440

Is the MP also prepared to arrange a subsidy for the service?

 

[Dai Corner]

Is the MP also prepared to arrange a subsidy for the service?

Or use it for his journeys between Westminster and his constituenc

 

[Blindtraveler]

In all honesty, if I was commuting to London from the West country, I would consider the coach because of the truly awful experience offered by gwr and their nasty trains and seats. But somehow can't see persuading the travelling masses to join me

 

[PG]

Is the MP also prepared to arrange a subsidy for the service?

Or use it for his journeys between Westminster and his constituenc

The MP could advise his constituents in Launceston to use Stagecoach bus services 85 and 6 to access Oakhampton Railway Station from where they can travel via Exeter to London.
In so doing they'd reach London over two hours earlier than catching the once-a-day National Express 503, albeit they'd have to depart some 23 minutes earlier than previously. Somehow I suspect he's unlikely to as it won't be as newsworthy!

 

[gray1404]

How common is it for passengers to be left behind on National Express?

I was on a service recently which pulled into Birmingham Coach Station. No announcement was made stating we had a break. The driver merely announced it as a usual stop, we are now arriving into Birmingham. There was a quick driver swop, passengers off and new passengers boarded. Then we left. We arrived 10 minutes late and left only 5 minutes late.

I noticed a lot of people got off at Birmingham and then reboard a couple of minutes later of their own accord. I stayed on board. As we were leaving the driver had the coach reversing lights on and the light on the stand had turned to green. Someone who had been on board came running upto the coach. The driver would not open the door for the passenger. Could he have done so?

The driver started reversing and the passenger started banging on the side of the coach.

A driver from an adjacent service then came to the passenger and ushered him back inside to a member of NX station staff. We continued reversing throughout without stopping and left. A lot of passengers at the back of the coach, who were not travelling with the man started kicking off. The second driver on the service went to the back and calmed them down. He said they had to leave and cannot go back and that NX will put him on the next service (don't know if this is true).

We then got to the penultimate stop on the service. Again this was announced as just a regular stop. People got off and no new passengers as it's set down only. By this time we were bang on time arriving and actually left 3 minutes early (timetable allows for 5 minutes between arriving and departing at that stop). A passenger came to the front and asked if this was the final stop on the service. The driver said no. It would be the next stop in another hour. The man then got off the service anyway and the driver said as he was by the door no don't get off here. The man got off anyway.

The second driver finished unloading luggage and got back on and the coach pulled away from the bus stop. As this happened the said passenger came running after the service. Again the driver didn't stop or reopen the door.

It was really sad to watch people being left behind. I could imagine the driver getting into a lot of trouble reopening the doors at Birmingham once they have been given the green light off the stand and same again later down the route by reopening the door after leaving a stop.

I would add that both the drivers were very professional in their driving and very friendly and chatty towards passengers. Yet at the same time maintained good discipline on board if people had music or calls on speaker and made it clear anyone vaping would be required to leave the service so could we please just avoid that. They did enforce excess baggage charges too (which I've not seen before) and were very thankful and sincere when I moved seats so they could accommodate a mother and child to be seated together.

I do wonder if the passengers didn't fully understand if English was not their first language and I felt really sorry for them but I'm not blaming the drivers whatsoever or NX. I wonder how common such situations are.

 

[Eyersey468]

How common is it for passengers to be left behind on National Express?

I was on a service recently which pulled into Birmingham Coach Station. No announcement was made stating we had a break. The driver merely announced it as a usual stop, we are now arriving into Birmingham. There was a quick driver swop, passengers off and new passengers boarded. Then we left. We arrived 15 minutes late and left only 5 minutes late.

I noticed a lot of people got off at Birmingham and then reboard a couple of minutes later of their own accord. I stayed on board. As we were leaving the driver had the coach reversing lights on and the light on the stand had turned to green. Someone who had been on board came running upto the coach. The driver would not open the door for the passenger. Could he have done so?

The driver started reversing and the passenger started banging on the side of the coach.

A driver from an adjacent service then came to the passenger and ushered him back inside to a member of NX station staff. We continued reversing throughout without stopping and left. A lot of passengers at the back of the coach, who were not travelling with the man started kicking off. The second driver on the service went to the back and calmed them down. He said they had to leave and cannot go back and that NX will put him on the next service (don't know if this is true).

We then got to the penultimate stop on the service. Again this was announced as just a regular stop. People got off and no new passengers as it's set down only. By this time we were bang on time arriving and actually left 3 minutes early (time for 5 minutes between arriving and departing at this stop). A passenger came to the front and asked if this was the final stop on the service. The driver said no. It would be the next stop in another hour. The man then got off the service anyway and the driver said as he was by the door no don't get off here. The man got off anyway.

The second driver finished unloading luggage and got back on and the coach pulled away from the bus stop. As this happened the said passenger came running after the service. Again the driver didn't stop or reopen the door.

It was really sad to watch people being left behind. I could imagine the driver getting into a lot of trouble reopening the doors at Birmingham once they have been given the green light off the stand and later down the route I could imagine reopening the door after a stop.

I would add that both the drivers were very professional in their driving and very friendly and chatty towards passengers. Yet at the same time maintained good discipline on board if people had music or calls on speaker and made it clear anyone vaping would be required to leave the service so could we please just avoid that. They did enforce excess baggage charges too (which I've not seen before) and were very thankful and sincere when I moved seats so they could accommodate a mother and child to be seated together.

I do wonder if the passengers didn't fully understand if English was not their first language and I felt really sorry for them but I'm not blaming the drivers whatsoever or NX. I wonder how common such situations are.

We get it a lot to be honest, most days someone leaves it until the last second to get to the coach. The rule is once we have left stand that's it, we can't stop again. It happens a lot in Victoria. The thing at Birmingham as well is it is NX head office, they can and do watch out of the window to see what is going on, so we as drivers have to be careful about following the rules there. Once we have the away we have to go

 

[Parebunks]

How common is it for passengers to be left behind on National Express?

I was on a service recently which pulled into Birmingham Coach Station. No announcement was made stating we had a break. The driver merely announced it as a usual stop, we are now arriving into Birmingham. There was a quick driver swop, passengers off and new passengers boarded. Then we left. We arrived 15 minutes late and left only 5 minutes late.

I noticed a lot of people got off at Birmingham and then reboard a couple of minutes later of their own accord. I stayed on board. As we were leaving the driver had the coach reversing lights on and the light on the stand had turned to green. Someone who had been on board came running upto the coach. The driver would not open the door for the passenger. Could he have done so?

The driver started reversing and the passenger started banging on the side of the coach.

A driver from an adjacent service then came to the passenger and ushered him back inside to a member of NX station staff. We continued reversing throughout without stopping and left. A lot of passengers at the back of the coach, who were not travelling with the man started kicking off. The second driver on the service went to the back and calmed them down. He said they had to leave and cannot go back and that NX will put him on the next service (don't know if this is true).

We then got to the penultimate stop on the service. Again this was announced as just a regular stop. People got off and no new passengers as it's set down only. By this time we were bang on time arriving and actually left 3 minutes early (time for 5 minutes between arriving and departing at this stop). A passenger came to the front and asked if this was the final stop on the service. The driver said no. It would be the next stop in another hour. The man then got off the service anyway and the driver said as he was by the door no don't get off here. The man got off anyway.

The second driver finished unloading luggage and got back on and the coach pulled away from the bus stop. As this happened the said passenger came running after the service. Again the driver didn't stop or reopen the door.

It was really sad to watch people being left behind. I could imagine the driver getting into a lot of trouble reopening the doors at Birmingham once they have been given the green light off the stand and later down the route I could imagine reopening the door after a stop.

I would add that both the drivers were very professional in their driving and very friendly and chatty towards passengers. Yet at the same time maintained good discipline on board if people had music or calls on speaker and made it clear anyone vaping would be required to leave the service so could we please just avoid that. They did enforce excess baggage charges too (which I've not seen before) and were very thankful and sincere when I moved seats so they could accommodate a mother and child to be seated together.

I do wonder if the passengers didn't fully understand if English was not their first language and I felt really sorry for them but I'm not blaming the drivers whatsoever or NX. I wonder how common such situations are.

In my experience National Express are slightly less ruthless than Megabus, but both do definitely tend to leave on time or when they are ready absolutely regardless of passengers. Slightly more leeway at actual service station stops where drivers will often note how many get off and do an announcement in the service station when they're ready to go. Less so when people randomly leave at normal stops - drivers can hardly be expected to remember who's going where, and the point about bus station policies is definitely a factor. Some people do it for a cigarette which often seems to be tolerated (especially when the driver's doing the same!), but when passengers are walking off without any clear reason or saying anything to the driver there isn't that much to be done about it.

 

[Eyersey468]

In my experience National Express are slightly less ruthless than Megabus, but both do definitely tend to leave on time or when they are ready absolutely regardless of passengers. Slightly more leeway at actual service station stops where drivers will often note how many get off and do an announcement in the service station when they're ready to go. Less so when people randomly leave at normal stops - drivers can hardly be expected to remember who's going where, and the point about bus station policies is definitely a factor. Some people do it for a cigarette which often seems to be tolerated (especially when the driver's doing the same!), but when passengers are walking off without any clear reason or saying anything to the driver there isn't that much to be done about it.

At Milton Keynes we quite often get people walking off without saying anything, there's been several times people have been left because of it

 

[philthetube]

We then got to the penultimate stop on the service. Again this was announced as just a regular stop. People got off and no new passengers as it's set down only. By this time we were bang on time arriving and actually left 3 minutes early (time for 5 minutes between arriving and departing at this stop). A passenger came to the front and asked if this was the final stop on the service. The driver said no. It would be the next stop in another hour. The man then got off the service anyway and the driver said as he was by the door no don't get off here. The man got off anyway.

The second driver finished unloading luggage and got back on and the coach pulled away from the bus stop. As this happened the said passenger came running after the service. Again the driver didn't stop or reopen the door.

This seems to me that the passenger considered himself important and that the drivers would have to wait for him, whe worst thing you can do to get a favour is to take things for granted.

 

[gray1404]

@Eyersey468 I could see it happening a lot at London Victoria (people being left behind) due to the departure gate doors being closed 2 minutes before departure. As a regular traveller I'm aware of this but I don't recall it being communicated when booking on NX website. I think the only place I've seen it communicated is on signs at Victoria.

At least at Victoria it's not as easy for someone to get to the coach once the doors are shut so less risk of accident.

 

[Smethwickian]

Transport for London's 2-minute bay door closure rule at Victoria Coach Station does not need to be specially conveyed to NX customers because NX Conditions of Carriage already state that passengers should be at their boarding point 10 minutes before the time on their ticket.
Regarding people being left behind at other stops, if it is not advertised as a comfort stop in the timetable or announced by the driver, then passengers should not get off. It's really quite simple.
As for timetabled stops, on the former service 540 schedule, two or three passengers a day were guaranteed left behind at Norton Canes Services no matter how long the break or how clearly announced.

 

[Eyersey468]

@Eyersey468 I could see it happening a lot of London Victoria (people being left behind) due to the departure gate doors being closed 2 minutes before departure. As a regular traveller I'm aware of this but I don't recall it being communicated when booking on NX website. I think the only place I've seen it communicated is on signs at Victoria.

At least at Victoria it's not as easy for someone to get to the coach once the doors are shut so less risk of accident.

We get people come running up when we are actually leaving Victoria Coach Station as well

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 Sep 2024 ==

Transport for London's 2-minute bay door closure rule at Victoria Coach Station does not need to be specially conveyed to NX customers because NX Conditions of Carriage already state that passengers should be at their boarding point 10 minutes before the time on their ticket.
Regarding people being left behind at other stops, if it is not advertised as a comfort stop in the timetable or announced by the driver, then passengers should not get off. It's really quite simple.
As for timetabled stops, on the former service 540 schedule, two or three passengers a day were guaranteed left behind at Norton Canes Services no matter how long the break or how clearly announced.

We all know nobody ever reads the terms and conditions of travel though

 

[M60lad]

Reading this what would happen if a passenger gets off a coach and gets left behind but their luggage is still on the coach I'm guessing this can and has happened in the past?

 

[Eyersey468]

Reading this what would happen if a passenger gets off a coach and gets left behind but their luggage is still on the coach I'm guessing this can and has happened in the past?

It happens a lot to be honest. Depending where the passenger was going the luggage either gets left at a manned site for them to collect or goes back to the operators depot as lost property. If they have got off at a manned site the staff there will get them onto the next available coach

 

[gray1404]

At least it's an unwritten rule that NX will get customers on the next service if there is one. I personally try to stay on board and if I pop the toilet at Birmingham I'm fast about it. On the 550 now many journeys have 3 separate single driver legs (Liverpool to Edge Lane/Edge Lane to MK/MK to Victoria) it can be compulsory to get off at Birmingham for a break. I always stay on the concourse near the stand so I'm ready to get straight back when the driver is ready. Don't want to risk it.

Yes, at Milton Keynes I've seen a very friendly and professional driver on the 550 be given a hard time on the by customers as there was not a rest break there. They started arguing with the driver about it trying to negotiate one. He was so calm with them but it was horrible to see him be confronted so aggressively.

It was merely a driver change and pick up new passengers. I've also seen people get off there assuming it was another rest break.

I have to admit I have sometimes turned up for my service 5 minutes before departure (although always 10 at Victoria) rather then 10. So I'll have to bear the 10 minute rule in mind.

I'd also say NX have been really good holding connecting at Victoria for me by a few minutes (and once by a full 10 minutes) when my inbound coach has been delayed in traffic into London.

They have done this automatically without me having to ask. I assume they have a system in place. Impressive they monitor connections. At first I thought it was because I was on the last service of the day but they have done it early evening too. Maybe I've just struck lucky.

Thanks for your input folks. Appreciate it.

 

[Eyersey468]

At least it's an unwritten rule that NX will get customers on the next service if there is one. I personally try to stay on board and if I pop the toilet at Birmingham I'm fast about it. On the 550 now many journeys have 3 separate single driver legs (Liverpool to Edge Lane/Edge Lane to MK/MK to Victoria) it can be compulsory to get off at Birmingham for a break. I always stay on the concourse near the stand so I'm ready to get straight back when the driver is ready. Don't want to risk it.

Yes, at Milton Keynes I've seen a very friendly and professional driver on the 550 be given a hard time on the by customers as there was not a rest break there. They started arguing with the driver about it trying to negotiate one. He was so calm with them but it was horrible to see him be confronted so aggressively.

It was merely a driver change and pick up new passengers. I've also seen people get off there assuming it was another rest break.

I have to admit I have sometimes turned up for my service 5 minutes before departure (although always 10 at Victoria) rather then 10. So I'll have to bear the 10 minute rule in mind.

I'd also say NX have been really good holding connecting at Victoria for me by a few minutes (and once by a full 10 minutes) when my inbound coach has been delayed in traffic into London.

They have done this automatically without me having to ask. I assume they have a system in place. Impressive they monitor connections. At first I thought it was because I was on the last service of the day but they have done it early evening too. Maybe I've just struck lucky.

Thanks for your input folks. Appreciate it.

National Express do monitor connections and will hold a coach for up to 10 minutes if one is late in

 

[route101]

I was at Birmingham Digbeth Coach Station and seen a 210 Gatwick service pull back into the bay to let someone on, perhaps he thought it was an airport service. Never seen anyone been left behind at a service station stop, usually the driver does a headcount.

 

[gray1404]

Looks like this person was very lucky indeed not to be left behind.

On a separate note, what is NX policy on children having to sit next to an adult they are travelling with. Are coach drivers allowed to insist you move somewhere else if you're sat alone?

I always cooperate and am friendly with the drivers about this. I know they have a difficult job to do and not all passengers are helpful towards them so I always like to do my bit to be nice. However its not nice being singled out being asked to move because you're traveling alone and it's always asked to move to an aisle seat when I'm settled at a window. It's happened a few times now.

I've even been asked if I wouldn't mind moving when I've reserved a seat already. I rather wish the adult travelling with the child would think ahead and reserve a seat (or NX would insist on this when a child is added to a booking).

 

[Eyersey468]

Looks like this person was very lucky indeed not to be left behind.

On a separate note, what is NX policy on children having to sit next to an adult they are travelling with. Are coach drivers allowed to insist you move somewhere else if you're sat alone?

I always cooperate and am friendly with the drivers about this. I know they have a difficult job to do and not all passengers are helpful towards them so I always like to do my bit to be nice. However its not nice being singled out being asked to move because you're traveling alone and it's always asked to move to an aisle seat when I'm settled at a window. It's happened a few times now.

I've even been asked if I wouldn't mind moving when I've reserved a seat already. I rather wish the adult travelling with the child would think ahead and reserve a seat (or NX would insist on this when a child is added to a booking).

I will only ask if it is a small child, to be honest my view generally is if people want to sit together they should reserve the seats. If someone has reserved a specific seat the only time I would ask them to move is if they were in 2A/B or 1C/D and an infirm passenger boarded, though if they said no I wouldn't make them move

 

[317 forever]

How common is it for passengers to be left behind on National Express?

I was on a service recently which pulled into Birmingham Coach Station. No announcement was made stating we had a break. The driver merely announced it as a usual stop, we are now arriving into Birmingham. There was a quick driver swop, passengers off and new passengers boarded. Then we left. We arrived 10 minutes late and left only 5 minutes late.

I noticed a lot of people got off at Birmingham and then reboard a couple of minutes later of their own accord. I stayed on board. As we were leaving the driver had the coach reversing lights on and the light on the stand had turned to green. Someone who had been on board came running upto the coach. The driver would not open the door for the passenger. Could he have done so?

The driver started reversing and the passenger started banging on the side of the coach.

A driver from an adjacent service then came to the passenger and ushered him back inside to a member of NX station staff. We continued reversing throughout without stopping and left. A lot of passengers at the back of the coach, who were not travelling with the man started kicking off. The second driver on the service went to the back and calmed them down. He said they had to leave and cannot go back and that NX will put him on the next service (don't know if this is true).

We then got to the penultimate stop on the service. Again this was announced as just a regular stop. People got off and no new passengers as it's set down only. By this time we were bang on time arriving and actually left 3 minutes early (timetable allows for 5 minutes between arriving and departing at that stop). A passenger came to the front and asked if this was the final stop on the service. The driver said no. It would be the next stop in another hour. The man then got off the service anyway and the driver said as he was by the door no don't get off here. The man got off anyway.

The second driver finished unloading luggage and got back on and the coach pulled away from the bus stop. As this happened the said passenger came running after the service. Again the driver didn't stop or reopen the door.

It was really sad to watch people being left behind. I could imagine the driver getting into a lot of trouble reopening the doors at Birmingham once they have been given the green light off the stand and same again later down the route by reopening the door after leaving a stop.

I would add that both the drivers were very professional in their driving and very friendly and chatty towards passengers. Yet at the same time maintained good discipline on board if people had music or calls on speaker and made it clear anyone vaping would be required to leave the service so could we please just avoid that. They did enforce excess baggage charges too (which I've not seen before) and were very thankful and sincere when I moved seats so they could accommodate a mother and child to be seated together.

I do wonder if the passengers didn't fully understand if English was not their first language and I felt really sorry for them but I'm not blaming the drivers whatsoever or NX. I wonder how common such situations are.

I can understand the driver whose coach reached Birmingham 10 minutes late wanting, or being required to make back the time, deciding to leave just 5 minutes late in order to reduce the delay. Ideally, he should pre-announce the revised departure time so that passengers do not risk getting stranded.

The problem arises where there is a change of driver, and the new driver does not want to, or is not allowed to, leave 10 minutes late just because the coach was 10 minutes late arriving at Birmingham.

 

[route101]

I used National Express last night from Birmingham to Glasgow service 181. Quite a few people used the service from Manchester Airport to Manchester and Manchester to Preston and paid cash to do so.

Always find it funny NX stop at Tebay, when the demographic of coach passengers the opposite of Tebay.

 

[Bungle965]

Quite a few people used the service from Manchester Airport to Manchester and Manchester to Preston and paid cash to do so.

Bet the driver loved that! I have seen it a couple of times before where if they were stopping at a NX Coach Station (Manchester for example) they would make the customer disembark and use the machine there rather than take the fare.

 

[Eyersey468]

Bet the driver loved that! I have seen it a couple of times before where if they were stopping at a NX Coach Station (Manchester for example) they would make the customer disembark and use the machine there rather than take the fare.

If we are at a manned site we aren't allowed to sell tickets, the passenger is meant to buy them from the machines

 

[Blindtraveler]

Out of interest, is there any special dispensation for those for whom using the machine is not practical, for example, someone like myself with a visual impairment

 

[Bungle965]

If we are at a manned site we aren't allowed to sell tickets, the passenger is meant to buy them from the machines

Apologies I should have been clearer, this is if boarding at a non manned site but calling at one further down the line, Manchester Airport for instance.

 

[Eyersey468]

Out of interest, is there any special dispensation for those for whom using the machine is not practical, for example, someone like myself with a visual impairment

I would either help the passenger buy the ticket or get one of the staff at the manned site to do it

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Oct 2024 ==

Apologies I should have been clearer, this is if boarding at a non manned site but calling at one further down the line, Manchester Airport for instance.

Aah I see what you mean,sorry I thought you meant they wanted to buy a ticket at a manned site. What has probably happened there is the driver may not have had a working machine, while we do have emergency tickets we can't take payment by card with them and we can't always be certain what the fare should be either. We aren't issued with printed fare tables and while I'm.told there are fare tables on Agents (NX site for operators and drivers to get loading charts etc from) I've never been able to .find them