'National Dispute' at Network Rail regarding maintenance

[Roast Veg]

Sitting on a train, in the cab at 100mph, or even 75mph, lots of things could be / will be missed.

Even if it's done with a video camera at a high resolution and frequency, and watched in slow-mo after the fact?

 

[LAX54]

Even if it's done with a video camera at a high resolution and frequency, and watched in slow-mo after the fact?

That maybe a bit late then, NR do have High Speed Track Recorders, that run on a cyclic basis, that pick up what the eye cannot see, but you cannot beat Mk 1 eyeballs looking at the track, fixings, ballast, cess, embankment, OHL / 3rd Rail as they walk.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Even if it's done with a video camera at a high resolution and frequency, and watched in slow-mo after the fact?

The video is analysed by computers using pattern recognition and its works pretty well in identifying missing clips etc and along with the tarck measuring data identified dynamic issues very well. As a result patrolling frequencies were reduced after its introduction but the MkI eyeball still has its place.

 

[Hellzapoppin]

In addition to the train drone video footage and hi resolution stills are being used as well.

 

[hwl]

In addition to the train drone video footage and hi resolution stills are being used as well.

And 2 helicopters

The video is analysed by computers using pattern recognition and its works pretty well in identifying missing clips etc and along with the track measuring data identified dynamic issues very well. As a result patrolling frequencies were reduced after its introduction but the MkI eyeball still has its place.

And most has recently all been recently upgraded. I don't think most people realise quite how much non visual track geometry analysis also happens.



It would be interesting to know the stats on what is being picked up by patrolling and what by other technological approaches.

Investment in removing lots of higher maintenance legacy track types (e.g. jointed bullhead) might actually be cutting down on maintenance requirements.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

And 2 helicopters

And most has recently all been recently upgraded. I don't think most people realise quite how much non visual track geometry analysis also happens.



It would be interesting to know the stats on what is being picked up by patrolling and what by other technological approaches.

Investment in removing lots of higher maintenance legacy track types (e.g. jointed bullhead) might actually be cutting down on maintenance requirements.

Im not sure it can check security of bolts on joints/crossings although there is significantly less assets like that on the high category/speed routes and it ought to be easier to get patrolling blocks on rural lines.

 

[Class 170101]

Sitting on a train, in the cab at 100mph, or even 75mph, lots of things could be / will be missed.

Surely its by camera attached to the underside of the train (for track) or on the roof (for Overhead line) these days and able to freeze each frame rather than being in the cab as the train passes over each section per se?

 

[TUC]

Well they would say that wouldn't they?

Anything newsworthy going on?

 

[24Grange]

Surely, they can't have forgotten Hatfield already? I'm also concerned that (my perception) there seems to be more fatalities (Port Talbot & Surbition and near misses) than there used to be ? Is staff development and training being cut back also to save money? Also I thought everything was now brought in house ( everyone is NR) and no more sub contactors, subcontracting subcontractors - following one of the reviews ?

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Surely, they can't have forgotten Hatfield already? I'm also concerned that (my perception) there seems to be more fatalities (Port Talbot & Surbition and near misses) than there used to be ? Is staff development and training being cut back also to save money? Also I thought everything was now brought in house ( everyone is NR) and no more sub contactors, subcontracting subcontractors - following one of the reviews ?

They've learnt from Hatfield maintenance was internalised and that is why the railways are now far safer than under Railtrack.

The fatalities are awful from many years of no staff deaths but the precursors were there in many RAIB reports on nears misses and in my experience there will be dozens more near missed that NR own teams will have investigated. The failure of management to react to what was being found was shown up in the Port Talbot report. In almost every event individuals were just trying to get the job done.

Whilst ive been out industry just over a year there was a huge emphasis on safety and cultural training going on over many years and I would say some of it at was detriment to focusing on the day job. There are huge amount of contractors still employed and will need to be and my experience was primary contractors had very rigorous control of staff training and competence but down at 2nd or more so 3rd tier suppliers things were a lot slacker. Very little of it was deliberate but many suppliers and their staff were on zero hours contracts and never knew what shifts they were getting from week to week.

 

[Horizon22]

If you're trying to save serious money on internal payroll in an organisation that's the shape of NR, it has to come out of lower pay bands.

From that spreadsheet:
89% of NR staff are on salaries between £20k and £60k, representing 83% of the wages bill.
0.4% of NR staff are on salaries over £120k, representing somewhere around 1%-2% of the wages bill.

To save 1% of your payroll bill you can either lose more than half of your senior management. Or about 1% headcount from the bottom pay bands, often achievable without any redundancies by just slightly reducing recruitment. If you want to save any more than that 1% then it isn't feasible to take it just out of top pay bands.

Middle management is often a better place to look for cuts than senior leadership. (In practice you do both at the same time.)
And in most organisations, losing e.g. a third of middle management represents a decent saving.

NR look reasonably lean here already from that spreadsheet but I'd be surprised if the type of thing from the RMT press release was going on and management weren't also about to be hit by some kind of restructuring, even a modest one.

Not to mention Network Rail is a very large organisation - there are bound to be people earning +£100K working there. The same arguments come around when it comes to the BBC or TfL.

 

[Annetts key]

The biggest problem with track safety (and by this I mean the safety of staff on track from the hazard of being hit by a train) is that they have made the system far too complex and confusing. Along with the official documents having three different classes of colour coded text, some is mandatory, some is required unless another (unspecified) system is used, some is recommended.

And in some parts of the organisation, trying to get the manager to improve the way that his/her system works is hard work. Because they often respond with ‘business needs’ or some other reason.

Clear, simple and straightforward it is not. Hence there are plenty of staff who just skim read these documents...

The ORR has not been happy with the situation for some time now. But it is Network Rail that has to solve the problem. And Network Rail has boxed itself into a corner by saying that the only way that they can improve staff trackside safety, is to not have trains and staff in the same environment. Hence ‘red zone’ working is now not permitted in many areas (although apparently walking to site is).

However, ‘green zone’ working in line locks and in T3 worksites is not without problems. There have been a number of line lock irregularities where staff have ended up working on an open line, but thinking that they are protected from train movements.

And there continue to be T3 irregularities, especially with the placing out of protection.

As with anything, if the system is properly implemented, then it can be perfectly safe. So a properly implemented ‘red zone’ lookout system can be just as safe as a ‘green zone’ line block without additional protection. The difference is that a ‘green zone’ appears to be safer.

To really improve safety, the design of the signalling system needs to be changed so that staff protection can be built in. Rather than having to try to work with whatever happens to exist.

So for example, if ‘red zone’ working is required, either more TOWS should be installed, or an equivalent system.
Likewise, more, and better designed (with end user input) LODs should be provided.

But all this costs money. And the railway for some reason prefers to just increase the amount of paperwork instead. Which also costs money, but this is hidden, as it just normally means the job takes longer.

 

[Leicester_Loya]

The term or the working practice? From context I assume the latter.

Yeah the working practice. We were told that in order for us to use it again, someone (A senior manager/engineer) had to put their name to it in writing to give us permission to carry on working that way. As you can assume, no-one would dare as they'd basically end up out of a job and possibly worse if an accident or death had happened on their 'watch'.

The more I think about these re-orgs the more I think it'll end up with voluntary redundancies, a re-org of Capex, a halt in recruitment for a few years, changes to T&Cs in some depots and also a slight reduction in the maintenance schedule for some work orders (aka instead of doing a service every 3 months we'll now do it every 4 months). I just genuinely don't see how it's viable to cut us down to a 2 man working team or to dramatically reduce the maintenance schedule. Certain areas might be different, but in ours we have a lot of stuff that isn't currently monitored, whereas I know other areas have pretty much all their signalling equipment monitored.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Had an update from TSSA this morning indicates NR will now back off until Rail Industry Recovery Group report back

Our union has been in further discussions with Network Rail (NR) after its Chief Executive, Andrew Haines, made comments suggesting changes are needed at the company once the pandemic is dealt with.
We’ve now been told by NR that they will full abide by the Rail Industry Recovery Group (RIRG) framework. This body has been tasked with addressing the challenges facing the rail industry in a the post-Covid era.
I represent you on the RIRG and I can assure you we won’t let NR or anyone else jump the gun on these discussions. We must all make sure the RIRG does what it says on the tin – secures a rail industry which recovers from the blight of the past year, with safety, jobs and passengers to the fore

 

[Bald Rick]

Had an update from TSSA this morning indicates NR will now back off until Rail Industry Recovery Group report back

Seems to me that this was always the plan.

 

[High Dyke]

Thank you for your reply.
Just panicking on seeing news today.

Don't worry. The news had the same questions from current employed signallers. As usual lack of clarity in management announcements.

 

[Carlisle]

Had an update from TSSA this morning indicates NR will now back off until Rail Industry Recovery Group report back

Assuming we’re over the worst, there’s going to be so many Covid related enquiries soon, will we even remember who recommended what ?

 

[Seehof]

I have read the above and in the short term it seems nothing will happen. However, my nephew who works in maintenance and training is very worried following a Friday afternoon Zoom meeting with his boss and others. He is a former apprentice with young family and mortgage. Has anything concrete been proposed that actually exists to read or is it all scary conversations and rumours?
From what he tells me it is the problem regarding the inflated costs associated with any improvements that is crippling NR.

 

[Bald Rick]

Has anything concrete been proposed that actually exists to read or is it all scary conversations and rumours?

Nothing has been proposed, except in the Capital Delivery department of Eastern Region.

From what he tells me it is the problem regarding the inflated costs associated with any improvements that is crippling NR.

The problem is that there has been a massive reduction in income for the industry.

 

[Seehof]

Thanks - what has been proposed for the Capital Delivery programme?

 

[Bald Rick]

Thanks - what has been proposed for the Capital Delivery programme?

A fairly substantial reduction in posts, there’s some detail on the TSSA website.

 

[Seehof]

Thank you - my nephew, a former NR apprentice has heard nothing concrete. He never says much about his job but it is some sort of maintenance training role based in Milton Keynes although he hardly ever goes there even before Covid. He (and his wife) are very very worried.

 

[Annetts key]

Thank you - my nephew, a former NR apprentice has heard nothing concrete. He never says much about his job but it is some sort of maintenance training role based in Milton Keynes although he hardly ever goes there even before Covid. He (and his wife) are very very worried.

From a national standpoint, Network Rail have said this:

Dear colleagues,

Many of you will have seen the message issued by the RMT to its members yesterday (18 March) - it raises genuine concerns that I know many of you will share.

The rail industry, and Network Rail, is facing the most serious crisis. Passenger numbers are through the floor and the subsidy being paid by government to keep us afloat is through the roof. We already know that this is not going to be fixed when we get past COVID. The shift to working from home for millions of people will continue to present enormous challenges; fares income from passengers is going to be billions of pounds lower for years to come. So we will have to make savings. The question is, can we work together to get through this crisis?

I know we share a genuine commitment to improve safety, and current systems of work need to be safer for everyone to go home safe every day. The Trades Unions have recognised, like us, that change needs to happen. A decision to stay as we are is untenable.

We want to work with colleagues to deliver a railway that is affordable and safe, and we have committed to working with the Trades Unions to do this. We intend to do our best to agree with the Trade Unions a way forward that will deliver employment security, improved conditions, a safer and sustainable railway.

Our next step is to talk to you and our unions about how we will make proposed changes. We are planning a special Business Council with union representatives on 24 March. In that meeting we will agree the best way forward and share our thinking with the national and area councils.

We are keen to set up any other arrangements to help us reach agreement with the unions such as a union summit and workstreams to find ways to agree and deliver the change.

The RMT messages this week include early thinking about possible solutions and are not formal plans. I want to reassure you that any proposed changes will be openly and honestly communicated and fully consulted, with every effort to reach agreement. We don't have all the answers or all the solutions yet. Our plan is to test ideas, talk with you and your Trades Union representatives and work out together how we respond to the safety and efficiency challenges we face. We will never make changes that make you less safe.

We want to involve you. We recognise this will be tough for every one of us and that we will need to build trust if we are going to make this work. I hope we can support each other to do this as it will be worth the effort.

Thanks,

Andrew

There is a national meeting of the second level RMT Network Rail reps on Wednesday. It’s likely more information will come out after this.

 

[GB]

24th has been and gone...what were the results?

 

[Annetts key]

24th has been and gone...what were the results?

Today is Monday. I said:

There is a national meeting of the second level RMT Network Rail reps on Wednesday. It’s likely more information will come out after this.

That means in two days time...

 

[GB]

I am aware of that. But the press release said there was going to be a special meeting on 24th March...I was asking what came of it.

 

[Annetts key]

Yes, but the RMT will let us know on Wednesday as to where things stand.

And if Network Rail are serious about negotiating, they won’t upset the unions by proceeding until they hear back from the unions.

Don’t expect this process to be even remotely quick. The dialogue between the company and the unions could go on for months.

 

[Elecman]

I am aware of that. But the press release said there was going to be a special meeting on 24th March...I was asking what came of it.

Network Rail have agreed no further action until all discussed at the Joint Industry Taskforce

 

[Deepgreen]

The 'green recovery' was, put simply, a lie designed to fob off the critics at the time and utterly typical of Johnson's short-term populist approach to everything. Meanwhile road spending continues to rise because that's the Tory way - keep the road lobby happy. The railways are entering a very dark time indeed.

 

[Carlisle]

The 'green recovery' was, put simply, a lie designed to fob off the critics at the time and utterly typical of Johnson's short-term populist approach to everything. Meanwhile road spending continues to rise because that's the Tory way - keep the road lobby happy. The railways are entering a very dark time indeed.

Currently it appears nowhere near that bad, otherwise the likes of HS2 would’ve already been paused, pending yet another review.