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Narberth Tunnel

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jimm

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As has already been said, no-one is going to spend lots of non-existent money at Narberth for the sake of services that run on a few summer Saturdays each year - and which can perfectly easily be replaced by trains formed of 20m or 23m coaches - assuming a new Wales franchise gets a fleet that allows for this to happen.
 
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ChiefPlanner

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You won't be able to ... the line will be closed for rebuilding the tunnel.

Thanks ..we need a York - Tenby again , 47 hauled with MK2's (SO) .......circa 1980 style.

In reality , the bucket and spade (daily) traffic to that superb resort is probably from South Wales , from my knowledge here in deepest Herts - the longer distance flows are by comfortable 4x4 , with ample space for a weeks stay . food etc. I "sell" SW Wales to loads of people , and they drive it from this neck of the woods , as the car is the suitcase. They may well use the train locally for days out.
 

Bald Rick

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Thanks ..we need a York - Tenby again , 47 hauled with MK2's (SO) .......circa 1980 style.

In reality , the bucket and spade (daily) traffic to that superb resort is probably from South Wales , from my knowledge here in deepest Herts - the longer distance flows are by comfortable 4x4 , with ample space for a weeks stay . food etc. I "sell" SW Wales to loads of people , and they drive it from this neck of the woods , as the car is the suitcase. They may well use the train locally for days out.

As you well know, my car is not a 4x4!

Toying with the idea of a day trip by HST one Saturday though, reckon there's enough time in Tenby for a swift couple in the Hope & Anchor, an ice cream from Feccis, then a sleep on the way back.
 

ChiefPlanner

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As you well know, my car is not a 4x4!

Toying with the idea of a day trip by HST one Saturday though, reckon there's enough time in Tenby for a swift couple in the Hope & Anchor, an ice cream from Feccis, then a sleep on the way back.

Need more time than that ! - think of Caldy Island
 

Bald Rick

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Need more time than that ! - think of Caldy Island

Not allowed out for more than a day, besides it has to be HST both ways. You can get the Caldey experience with a quick stop in the shop next to the Lifeboat Tav! 0845 off Pad, back less than 12h later.
 

allaction

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While all this is going on, the Fifty Years Ago feature each week in the Tenby Observer newspaper notes that the Beeching Axe had fallen on the line, and closure was imminent...

I've written to GWR asking for clarification on train suitability in the tunnel, and will follow up with Network Rail if necessary.
 

Envoy

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If they think there is any hope of getting a Class 800 through that tunnel, perhaps they should send one down and slowly inch it through with someone walking ahead of it? It would also surely be prudent to check out the Milford Haven & Fishguard lines just to know that such trains could use these routes even though that is unlikely.
 

pdq

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As a Tenby exile, this does all seem like a bit of a red herring to me. When I lived in London in the in the late 1990s, I once got the HST to Penally to visit my parents. From Carmarthen down it was such a faff, as most of the platforms are way too short, meaning passengers having to move along the train to exit; it also seemed to be even slower than the usual Sprinters.

As has been alluded to in earlier posts, what might increase rail patronage - and make a real difference to locals as well - would be for the frequency to be increased, and for there to be earlier trains on a Sunday for people making long homeward journeys. I'm sure most passengers who arrive at Swansea or Carmarthen on a HST or 800 would be quite happy to change to a decent DMU on a cross-platform, easy change.

I also agree with the comments that the car becomes the suitcase for anything other than daytrips. That's the same in any area. If I'm taking the family to Scarborough for the day from Batley I'll take the train, but if going for a more than a single overnight then the car wins. This highlights the desire for sensible and regular direct DMUs from Newport west to Tenby and Pembroke, which would be good for both towns, allowing people to make easy daytrips and also alleviating the parking problems that Tenby has always struggled with.

So, if 800s will go through the tunnel - fine. But don't spend money on it, which could be better focused on improving the exisiting services.
 

james60059

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could an alternative be to have the train run to Fishguard Harbour instead?

This would restore the link with the Rosslare ferry, and would provide friendlier connections with Cardiff and points east. The present service appears to be fragmented, with long waits at either Carmarthen and Swansea.

Then you have Spittal Tunnel (think that's what it's called) on the Fishguard branch.

Nowadays in my personal opinion, I don't think the traffic to FGH especially for the ferry doesn't warrant anything bigger than a 2-car DMU, the times I've been over on the afternoon sailing and the train is usually half full, off hand the only time I can remember it being full and standing was when that volcano blew in Iceland back in 2010 and many flights were grounded so many people made use of the Rail and Sail option.
 

allaction

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I've written to GWR (twice) and ATW (once) in the past fortnight asking for an update on the continuation of direct "Intercity express train" services from Paddington to Pembroke Dock, as the UK Transport Minister called them, but not a dicky bird from them yet....

I'll report back when I can.
 

Chester1

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I've written to GWR (twice) and ATW (once) in the past fortnight asking for an update on the continuation of direct "Intercity express train" services from Paddington to Pembroke Dock, as the UK Transport Minister called them, but not a dicky bird from them yet....

I'll report back when I can.

Now that GWR is using short formed HSTs in Devon and Cornwall could they just simply use a HST? They could put two sets of carriages together and send the set from Devon to London on a Friday evening ready to run Saturday service. They could then send it from London back to Devon on Sunday and then split it back to two short formed sets. It is a lot of hassle but its viable with good timetabling and would keep the promise.
 

Envoy

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Now that GWR is using short formed HSTs in Devon and Cornwall could they just simply use a HST? They could put two sets of carriages together and send the set from Devon to London on a Friday evening ready to run Saturday service. They could then send it from London back to Devon on Sunday and then split it back to two short formed sets. It is a lot of hassle but its viable with good timetabling and would keep the promise.
A 4 coach HST on the London to Swansea section would not be insufficient. As I presume, 4 coach HST’s will be stabled at Bristol - &/or Exeter, perhaps one could work summer Saturdays from Exeter / Bristol to Pembroke Dock? Of course, we do not yet know what will happen with the Welsh franchise or what rolling stock solutions will be provided. This is really dragging on & on!
 

Chester1

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A 4 coach HST on the London to Swansea section would not be insufficient. As I presume, 4 coach HST’s will be stabled at Bristol - &/or Exeter, perhaps one could work summer Saturdays from Exeter / Bristol to Pembroke Dock? Of course, we do not yet know what will happen with the Welsh franchise or what rolling stock solutions will be provided. This is really dragging on & on!

I agree 4 would be inadequate but merging two sets once a week to form a 8 carriage set would provide sufficient capacity. Exeter/Bristol to Pembroke would be the most sensible but would break the political promise so sending them to London Friday night would be neccessary. Presumably continuing to stable one HST set once a week in London would be practical? At some point the mini HSTs will be replaced but it would kick the can down the road for a while. I know this doesn't make commercial sense but if a summer Saturday London - Pembroke return service is put in the ITT the new franchise holder will have to find a way to do it.
 

Envoy

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I think that the ‘political promise’ was a load of hokum dreamt up by some stupid civil servant for the politicians to spout as ‘damage limitation’ following the electrification cancellation.
 

Gareth Marston

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I think that the ‘political promise’ was a load of hokum dreamt up by some stupid civil servant for the politicians to spout as ‘damage limitation’ following the electrification cancellation.

Very much in danger of becoming another Tory rail "promise" that doesn't happen.
 

allaction

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I've written to GWR (twice) and ATW (once) in the past fortnight asking for an update on the continuation of direct "Intercity express train" services from Paddington to Pembroke Dock, as the UK Transport Minister called them, but not a dicky bird from them yet....

I'll report back when I can.

Hot news! I've received a reply from GWR which redirected me to their general enquiry page with their addition of "nothing found for intercityexpress".

Sigh.... that's not what I expected of them.

So I've reiterated my question, have asked for a personal reply and have informed them that I will be sharing their answer in public forums, etc.
 

JN114

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Hot news! I've received a reply from GWR which redirected me to their general enquiry page with their addition of "nothing found for intercityexpress".

Sigh.... that's not what I expected of them.

So I've reiterated my question, have asked for a personal reply and have informed them that I will be sharing their answer in public forums, etc.

To be fair to GWR, The Secretary of State for Transport has only just announced his crayonista fantasy London - Pembroke IET service. The "plan" in so far as the industry was concerned was for Carmarthen to be the western-most reach of IETs in Wales. Demanding a personal update, with the added bonus of saying you're going to spread their word as Gospel on Internet forums and so on isn't likely to bear fruit.

As with every single announcement regarding new trains and changes to services; GWR will release information when GWR wants to - when they have a firm plan of what is happening with realistic and achievable timescales. Not before.
 

jimm

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Hot news! I've received a reply from GWR which redirected me to their general enquiry page with their addition of "nothing found for intercityexpress".

Sigh.... that's not what I expected of them.

So I've reiterated my question, have asked for a personal reply and have informed them that I will be sharing their answer in public forums, etc.

Why do you expect anything of GWR?

This pronunciation came out of the blue from the Transport Secretary. If anyone should be answering questions, it is Mr Grayling.

GWR were probably as surprised as everyone else when he came out with it.

And in any case, all the Network Rail is required to do is
develop additional options to improve journeys for passengers in Wales
thus giving the DfT a get-out when Network Rail come back and tell them how much it would cost to get an IET anywhere near Tenby or Pembroke Dock.
 
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rebmcr

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Cornering them, and getting them to drop him in it with a confirmed "hes talking b****cks", would be a major coup, though.
 

yorkie

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Sorry if I've missed it, but am I right in thinking we still do not know if the trains are cleared or not? do we have a date for when they will know?
....
In reality , the bucket and spade (daily) traffic to that superb resort is probably from South Wales .....
True, but it makes sense to run it as a through train, particularly as it needs the extra capacity of a longer train, which ATW would struggle to provide.
 

Gareth Marston

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Sorry if I've missed it, but am I right in thinking we still do not know if the trains are cleared or not? do we have a date for when they will know?

True, but it makes sense to run it as a through train, particularly as it needs the extra capacity of a longer train, which ATW would struggle to provide.

The IEP plan cut the InterCity services back to Carmarthen as their out of gauge for Narberth Tunnel. DfT/NR had absolutely no intention to do the work necessary to make it happen so the Pembroke Dock branch would lose its through summer Saturday trans from London at least.

Grayling has seemingly "promised" they will continue in the cancel the wires announcement. Th irony being the disruptive engineering work that DfT tell us the magic bi miode trains will save us from will of course be necessary to get the same trains through Narberth tunnel,
 

allaction

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In fairness its not GWR's job to acquiesce in/cover up/explain Ministerial and Civil Service porky pie telling.

But it is (or should be) their job to respond to requests in a timely and informative manner and then, when reminded that they haven't, to send a reply that answers the question, and not a lazy, incorrect failed link to their search engine.

Still no reply to my latest request to them, and not a peep out of Arriva either.
 

John R

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But it is (or should be) their job to respond to requests in a timely and informative manner and then, when reminded that they haven't, to send a reply that answers the question, and not a lazy, incorrect failed link to their search engine.

Still no reply to my latest request to them, and not a peep out of Arriva either.
No, it's GWR's job to run a timely and reliable railway. They don't have an obligation to respond to every query that a rail enthusiast happens to want to ask them. They would however certainly be required to answer such a question from an elected representative or body with a relevant interest, such as a local council, or even a media query.
 

allaction

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On to the next stage now.

Can anyone estimate precisely what work will have to be done and how long it might take?

Presumably a total line closure will be required during the duration?

All of this, incidentally, around the 50th annversary of the line being reprieved from the Beeching axe...
 

JN114

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So far I’ve only heard platform end wibble that they won’t fit - they’re designed to go anywhere a MkIII coach can; hence the extreme taper at the coach ends.
 

Gareth Marston

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On to the next stage now.

Can anyone estimate precisely what work will have to be done and how long it might take?

Presumably a total line closure will be required during the duration?

All of this, incidentally, around the 50th annversary of the line being reprieved from the Beeching axe...

Don't worry the magic train with the new technology negates the need for disruptive engineering works - this must be true because its what the Government says......
 
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