Naming ideas for ScotRail HSTs

[61653 HTAFC]

My suggestions:

"Alec Jackson - The Wembley Wizard"
"Denis Law"
"Bill Shankly"
"Duncan Shearer"
"Tom Cowan"

Fits in with the blue and white livery anyway...

 

[Altnabreac]

My 54 are:

7 cities

City of Edinburgh
City of Glasgow
City of Aberdeen
City of Dundee
City of Inverness
City of Stirling
City of Perth

12 Rivers

River Tay
River Clyde
River Spey
River Tweed
River Dee
River Don
River Nith
River Forth
River Findhorn
River Deveron
River Annan
River Esk

5 Lochs

Loch Ness
Loch Lomond
Loch Awe
Loch Tay
Loch Morar

5 peaks

Ben Nevis
Ben Macdhui
Càrn Eige
Ben Lawers
Merrick

2 National Parks

Loch Lomond and the Trossachs National Park
Cairngorms National Park

6 World Heritage Sites

St Kilda
Old and New Towns of Edinburgh
Antonine Wall
Forth Bridge
New Lanark
Heart of Neolithic Orkney

4 Counties

Angus
Moray
Aberdeenshire
Highland

7 Kingdoms

Dàl Riata
Kingdom of Strathclyde
Kingdom of Fife
Kingdom of Lothian
Pictland
Kingdom of Alba
Kingdom of Fortriu

6 Royal Burghs

Nairn Royal Burgh
Elgin Royal Burgh
Forres Royal Burgh
Inverurie Royal Burgh
Montrose Royal Burgh
Arbroath Royal Burgh

 

[Clansman]

Some serious dedication there Altnabreac!

If Scotrail ever do this, I think historical figures and famous landmarks are a must.

And I think the silhouettes on the power cars should focus on what the name plates state if possible, rather than the same livery on each which shows about 5 or 6.

For example

Robert Burns - Silhouette of Robert Burns
Forth Bridge - Silhouette of Forth Bridge
Edinburgh Castle - Silhouette of Edinburgh Castle

etc etc.

 

[Cowley]

Scottish Campaigner
Scottish Ranger
Scottish Champion
Scottish Fusilier
Scottish Prince
Scottish Lady
Scottish Courier

I mean you nicked em off us anyway, might as well see it through.

 

[dubscottie]

And I think the silhouettes on the power cars should focus on what the name plates state if possible, rather than the same livery on each which shows about 5 or 6.

For example

Robert Burns - Silhouette of Robert Burns
Forth Bridge - Silhouette of Forth Bridge
Edinburgh Castle - Silhouette of Edinburgh Castle

etc etc.

Good idea. I think the names should be just castles, rivers and well known bridges however.

None should be named after people. It will get too political.

Or name some after ships built on the Clyde/Tay and some after ships scrapped on the Forth.

I bet 90% of the Lothian/Fife population don't know that RMS Olympic (sister to Titanic) ended up in Inverkeithing as did many a famous ship.

 

[Cowley]

There's actually she some really good names on this thread that others have put forward and if they end up being anything like that then a good tradition will be continued.

 

[superalbs]

Call one 'Scotland'.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

I don't know if there's any unit or loco currently called this but what about "John o' Groats"?

 

[Mag_seven]

I don't mind what they name them just when they have been named please keep the name. I've seen many a loco named over the years complete with unveiling ceremony only to have it whipped off later.

 

[clc]

Begbie
Renton
Sick Boy

 

[DarloRich]

Are we looking for generic Scottish names or names associated with the services/areas these trains will run? Assuming that is Glasgow/Edinburgh to Perth/Stirling/Dundee/Aberdeen/Inverness.
I think there are some good names but surely we need to stay away from old/historic concepts that don't really chime with Scottish people today. Altnabreac has done a very through job but i just cant see names of rivers (beyond the obvious ones) and historic, long extinct, kingdoms ( except perhaps Fife) landing with people.

The SNP want to show Scotland as young, thrusting, dynamic proto country and would surely want a naming convention that highlights the best in modern Scotland coupled with identifiable celebs and the obvious shortbread type tartan heritage loved by the yanks. I also think that Scotrail wont want to go for the more obvious spottery type names ( engine types/engineers/long dead companies) unless they are recognizable to the general public. Remember, this is a branding exercise and a way to grow public perception about these services. I also wouldn't be adverse to receiving sponsorship in exchange for a name from some large companies/employers to fund the programme

I will have a go and you ( and Altnabreac) can shoot me down! As an Englishman i could have some fun with this

 

[Mikey C]

GlenFiddich
Aberlour
GlenMorangie
Bell's
Johnnie Walker
etc
...

Oh and Irn Bru!

 

[A0]

The Krankies, and the same on both power cars at either end.

Nothing could be more appropriate: they come as a pair, have worked all over England, and have been going since the 1970s.

Where's the like button when you need it?

 

[Clansman]

Are we looking for generic Scottish names or names associated with the services/areas these trains will run? Assuming that is Glasgow/Edinburgh to Perth/Stirling/Dundee/Aberdeen/Inverness.
I think there are some good names but surely we need to stay away from old/historic concepts that don't really chime with Scottish people today. Altnabreac has done a very through job but i just cant see names of rivers (beyond the obvious ones) and historic, long extinct, kingdoms ( except perhaps Fife) landing with people.

The SNP want to show Scotland as young, thrusting, dynamic proto country and would surely want a naming convention that highlights the best in modern Scotland coupled with identifiable celebs and the obvious shortbread type tartan heritage loved by the yanks. I also think that Scotrail wont want to go for the more obvious spottery type names ( engine types/engineers/long dead companies) unless they are recognizable to the general public. Remember, this is a branding exercise and a way to grow public perception about these services. I also wouldn't be adverse to receiving sponsorship in exchange for a name from some large companies/employers to fund the programme

I will have a go and you ( and Altnabreac) can shoot me down! As an Englishman i could have some fun with this

I'd agree with the kingdoms, least known rivers and the "good ol names" from the push pulls - whatever they were.

I think some Modern ones would be a good idea, whilst still keeping some heritage locos (ie well known castles such as Edinburgh and Stirling), and very obvious historical figures (ie Robert Burns) as well as modern ones (ie Queensferry Crossing).

A broad range will do if it covers the main points. If you're wanting pure modern celebs, look no further... here

clc's suggestions get my vote

 

[DarloRich]

I have thought about a strategy for naming’s and I will, therefore, suggest 5 categories from which names may be selected:

1) heritage/ culture
2) tourism
3) places
4) people
5) responsibility & reward ( sponsorship & support for charity works)

Clearly any naming cannot be divisive or controversial but I have tried to reflect the whole prposed Scotrail HST route from Edinburgh/ Glasgow to Aberdeen/Inverness. I have also tried to stay away from blanket “city of” type namings as they are a bit dull imho but it is hard as some of the areas dont immediately jump out as exciting places. There is a focus on the more touristy locations in Scotland as I think a big part of this campaign would be publicity and the marketing of leisure travel. However limiting the names to the above routes means we can’t include some of the more obvious west coast names and go for the full lochs and glens treatment. There are also some living famous scots included purely for PR/marketing purposes and I also include a couple of slots for big companies to “buy” a name and fund the rest of the programme. I also think it is impossible to avoid suggestions of central belt bias but without having access to the full lochs and glens treatment it is very hard to avoid this. I have tried to treat both cites equally and offer slots to the smaller cities on the routes.

The names should also help to engender in the travelling public a feeling of “togetherness” and connection with the company and with the Scottish nation/ history generally. I have tried to steer away from obvious nationalist touchstones but it is very hard as this view has coalesced around several historic figures/items that should be included as a reference to past history.

It may also be used to help create links between local communities/groups and the company, hopefully helping to reduce trespass or rail crime and increasing knowledge and “ownership” of Scotrail and their services. There are also a few corporate sops to keep the big wigs happy!

1 Edinburgh Castle
2 Greyfriars Bobby
3 Forth bridge
4 Holyrood ( got to keep the politicos on side!)
5 Rosslyn Chapel
6 Edinburgh Zoo
7 Old and New Towns of Edinburgh – A UNESCO World Heritage Site
8 Burrell Collection
9 Kelvingrove Art Gallery and Museum
10 Glasgow School of Art
11 The Cathedral of Saint Mungo
12 The Riverside Museum
13 Clyde Shipbuilding – Our industrial heritage (BAE Systems Maritime sponsorship)
14 HM Queen Elizabeth II – Scotland’s Queen (Perhaps after independence!)
15 The Scotch Whisky Association
16 Bonnie Prince Charlie
17 The Fair Maid of Perth
18 The Kelpies - Falkirk Wheel
19 Loch Ness
20 St Andrews
21 Oor Woolie - DC Thomson
22 Dundee – The City of Discovery
23 Aberdeen – The Granite City
24 The National Wallace Monument
25 The Stone of Scone - Scone Palace/Abbey
26 Stirling Castle
27 Mary, Queen of Scots ( I KNOW we already have this name on a 37 but still…….)
28 Flora MacDonald (instead of Culloden as it might not go down well!)
29 Duke OF Edinburgh
30 Katharine Stewart-Murray, Duchess of Atholl (1st female Scottish MP – hint Nicola)
31 J.K.Rowling
32 The Edinburgh Seven
33 Sir Sean Connery
34 Robert the Bruce
35 Sir Alex Ferguson
36 Charles Rennie Mackintosh
37 Ian Rankin - Inspector Rebus
38 Alexander Graham Bell
39 William Wallace
40 John Logie Baird
41 Alexander Fleming
42 James Watt
43 Charity (Staff & Passenger vote: national ( large RNLI etc)
44 Charity (Staff & Passenger vote : regional ( air ambulance etc )
45 Charity (Staff & Passenger vote : small – local hospice etc)
46 Charity (Scotrail “house charity” of the year)
47 Saint Andrew – Scotland’s patron saint
48 VisitScotland (.com)
49 AG Barr / Iron Bru
50 Royal Bank of Scotland ( or AN OTHER who will pay the costs of the scheme)
51 SSE ( or AN OTHER who will pay the costs of the scheme)
52 Standard Life ( or AN OTHER who will pay the costs of the scheme)
53 Bank of Scotland ( or AN OTHER who will pay the costs of the scheme)
54 Scotrail – Scotland’s Railway


Fire away

 

[Clip]

H.M.R.N.B Faslane

 

[59CosG95]

I have thought about a strategy for naming’s and I will, therefore, suggest 5 categories from which names may be selected:

1) heritage/ culture
2) tourism
3) places
4) people
5) responsibility & reward ( sponsorship & support for charity works)

Clearly any naming cannot be divisive or controversial but I have tried to reflect the whole prposed Scotrail HST route from Edinburgh/ Glasgow to Aberdeen/Inverness. I have also tried to stay away from blanket “city of” type namings as they are a bit dull imho but it is hard as some of the areas dont immediately jump out as exciting places. There is a focus on the more touristy locations in Scotland as I think a big part of this campaign would be publicity and the marketing of leisure travel. However limiting the names to the above routes means we can’t include some of the more obvious west coast names and go for the full lochs and glens treatment. There are also some living famous scots included purely for PR/marketing purposes and I also include a couple of slots for big companies to “buy” a name and fund the rest of the programme. I also think it is impossible to avoid suggestions of central belt bias but without having access to the full lochs and glens treatment it is very hard to avoid this. I have tried to treat both cites equally and offer slots to the smaller cities on the routes.

The names should also help to engender in the travelling public a feeling of “togetherness” and connection with the company and with the Scottish nation/ history generally. I have tried to steer away from obvious nationalist touchstones but it is very hard as this view has coalesced around several historic figures/items that should be included as a reference to past history.

It may also be used to help create links between local communities/groups and the company, hopefully helping to reduce trespass or rail crime and increasing knowledge and “ownership” of Scotrail and their services. There are also a few corporate sops to keep the big wigs happy!

1 Edinburgh Castle
2 Greyfriars Bobby
3 Forth bridge
4 Holyrood ( got to keep the politicos on side!)
5 Rosslyn Chapel
6 Edinburgh Zoo
7 Old and New Towns of Edinburgh – A UNESCO World Heritage Site
8 Burrell Collection
9 Kelvingrove Art Gallery and Museum
10 Glasgow School of Art
11 The Cathedral of Saint Mungo
12 The Riverside Museum
13 Clyde Shipbuilding – Our industrial heritage (BAE Systems Maritime sponsorship)
14 HM Queen Elizabeth II – Scotland’s Queen (Perhaps after independence!)
15 The Scotch Whisky Association
16 Bonnie Prince Charlie
17 The Fair Maid of Perth
18 The Kelpies - Falkirk Wheel
19 Loch Ness
20 St Andrews
21 Oor Woolie - DC Thomson
22 Dundee – The City of Discovery
23 Aberdeen – The Granite City
24 The National Wallace Monument
25 The Stone of Scone - Scone Palace/Abbey
26 Stirling Castle
27 Mary, Queen of Scots ( I KNOW we already have this name on a 37 but still…….)
28 Flora MacDonald (instead of Culloden as it might not go down well!)
29 Duke OF Edinburgh
30 Katharine Stewart-Murray, Duchess of Atholl (1st female Scottish MP – hint Nicola)
31 J.K.Rowling
32 The Edinburgh Seven
33 Sir Sean Connery
34 Robert the Bruce
35 Sir Alex Ferguson
36 Charles Rennie Mackintosh
37 Ian Rankin - Inspector Rebus
38 Alexander Graham Bell
39 William Wallace
40 John Logie Baird
41 Alexander Fleming
42 James Watt
43 Charity (Staff & Passenger vote: national ( large RNLI etc)
44 Charity (Staff & Passenger vote : regional ( air ambulance etc )
45 Charity (Staff & Passenger vote : small – local hospice etc)
46 Charity (Scotrail “house charity” of the year)
47 Saint Andrew – Scotland’s patron saint
48 VisitScotland (.com)
49 AG Barr / Iron Bru
50 Royal Bank of Scotland ( or AN OTHER who will pay the costs of the scheme)
51 SSE ( or AN OTHER who will pay the costs of the scheme)
52 Standard Life ( or AN OTHER who will pay the costs of the scheme)
53 Bank of Scotland ( or AN OTHER who will pay the costs of the scheme)
54 Scotrail – Scotland’s Railway


Fire away

Fantastic selection. Can't put it better myself. Now to send the list to Mr Hynes...

 

[DarloRich]

Fantastic selection. Can't put it better myself. Now to send the list to Mr Hynes...

it is actually really hard to be fair to everyone!

I am conscious that I lack any real minority group representation in that list and it was ( sadly) hard to identify female Scottish historical figures to balance out the obvious historic male figures.

I also wanted to get a military name in there to reflect the historic Scottish regiments of the British Army (and their service and sacrifice) and the link with past locomotive names but I forgot! Suggestions how to get the Royal Regiment of Scotland in there accepted

 

[och aye]

Concur. I say this as an SNP supporter and a fan of both politicians (direct hate mail to my PM box please ) - is there really any need to commemorate living people on trains? Plenty of dead people worthy of memorial, and for those who aren't dead their opportunity will come around in due course I expect.

Wouldn't be opposed to a public poll of famous deceased Scots to adorn the trains. Provided the public got a short list to select from - we need to learn the lessons of Boaty.

Surely Madge Elliot MBE is worthy of having a locomotive named after her?

 

[59CosG95]

it is actually really hard to be fair to everyone!

I am conscious that I lack any real minority group representation in that list and it was ( sadly) hard to identify female Scottish historical figures to balance out the obvious historic male figures.

I also wanted to get a military name in there to reflect the historic Scottish regiments of the British Army (and their service and sacrifice) and the link with past locomotive names but I forgot! Suggestions how to get the Royal Regiment of Scotland in there accepted

Well, if you put The Black Watch in, I'll be happy! (Both my grandfathers were in it; at the Black Watch HQ in Perth, there was a picture of D9013 framed on the wall)

 

[DarloRich]

Well, if you put The Black Watch in, I'll be happy! (Both my grandfathers were in it; at the Black Watch HQ in Perth, there was a picture of D9013 framed on the wall)

I would happily add the Black Watch but they are now the 3rd battalion of the Royal Regiment of Scotland and it would surely have to be the parent regiment used as a name to be fair.

We haven't, sadly, got enough names for:

• Royal Scots Borderers
• Royal Highland Fusiliers
• The Black Watch
• The Highlanders (Seaforth, Gordons and Camerons)
• The Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders
• The 52nd Lowland Regiment (TA)
• The 51st Highland Volunteers (TA)

We will need all those Deltic names back at this rate

 

[Mordac]

it is actually really hard to be fair to everyone!

I am conscious that I lack any real minority group representation in that list and it was ( sadly) hard to identify female Scottish historical figures to balance out the obvious historic male figures.

I also wanted to get a military name in there to reflect the historic Scottish regiments of the British Army (and their service and sacrifice) and the link with past locomotive names but I forgot! Suggestions how to get the Royal Regiment of Scotland in there accepted

You should have one named Jenny Geddes.

 

[GusB]

A couple of authors to add to the list:
Iain (M) Banks, Val McDermid

One to remove:
J.K. Rowling - although she is based in Scotland, she isn't Scottish

 

[DarloRich]

You should have one named Jenny Geddes.

no problem, I wasn't aware of her - I maintain it has to be visible to the majority or tell some kind of story to modern Scots.

A couple of authors to add to the list:
Iain (M) Banks, Val McDermid

One to remove:
J.K. Rowling - although she is based in Scotland, she isn't Scottish

Like I said some are for pure publicity but I am sure Edinburgh are happy to claim her. Last time I checked the Queen wasn't from Scotland and Bonnie Prince Charlie was an Italian!

 

[Mordac]

no problem, I wasn't aware of her - I maintain it has to be visible to the majority or tell some kind of story to modern Scots.

Actually it was more to make you aware of a very important woman in Scottish history, even if mostly for her stool throwing skills.

 

[DarloRich]

Actually it was more to make you aware of a very important woman in Scottish history, even if mostly for her stool throwing skills.

could be a pointer towards indipendance LOL

 

[godfreycomplex]

Iain Banks?
Robert Tannahill?
Jane Haining?

 

[me123]

Wait a minute... 54 power cars are coming up to Scotland, right? Coincidentally, there are 54 SNP MPs in the House of Commons... I think I've found the answer

 

[Mag_seven]

Wait a minute... 54 power cars are coming up to Scotland, right? Coincidentally, there are 54 SNP MPs in the House of Commons... I think I've found the answer

Yes 54 power cars built by BRITISH Rail! One of the great benefits of The Union!

 

[me123]

... you do realise I wasn't really suggesting to name them after the SNP MPs, right? :?