Mystery loco, in the 1890's?

[FuzzyDuck]

This photo was posted on a Facebook group and supposedly shows the a train on the Didcot, Newbury and Southampton Railway near Winchester. However it looks like diesel train which seems to early for the year it was supposed to have been taken. Any ideas?

 

[Trackman]

This photo was posted on a Facebook group and supposedly shows the a train on the Didcot, Newbury and Southampton Railway near Winchester. However it looks like diesel train which seems to early for the year it was supposed to have been taken. Any ideas?

What year was it supposed to have been taken?

 

[eldomtom2]

It looks like it could be coaches in a siding to me - there's what looks like a buffer stop to the right of it.

 

[eastwestdivide]

A rake of stationary coaches? Possibly 4/6-wheelers each end of some longer coaches? And is that some buffer stops just beyond them, as if they’re in a siding?

 

[6Gman]

This photo was posted on a Facebook group and supposedly shows the a train on the Didcot, Newbury and Southampton Railway near Winchester. However it looks like diesel train which seems to early for the year it was supposed to have been taken. Any ideas?

View attachment 164057

The child sitting on the fence looks well pre-1914 and I think the coaching stock is just that - a rake of parked coaching stock.

 

[stuving]

That hill with the spinney on top could well be St Catherine's Hill. In that case the view would be from the end of Domum Road, and the railway here is a single track on an embankment, with a siding on the far side pretty much in line with the hilltop.

 

[FrodshamJnct]

Almost looks like a GER brake van on the end so yeah I reckon a rake of coaches.

 

[Ken X]

Steam goods train on the left?

 

[Gloster]

I would guess that it is looking south from near the end of Domun Road towards St Catherine’s Hill. The buffer stops would be at the end of the headshunt to Bar End Yard.

 

[Rescars]

The goods train looks to be being worked tender first, unless it is being shunted. Could its loco be a Dean Goods? It could be an early one as it doesn't look to have a Belpaire firebox. It appears to have a polished dome and safety valve bonnet though. Very pre-WW1 (like the fence-sitters outfit), so no chance that the passenger rake has any connection with diesel power, I suggest. Must be ECS.

 

[D7666]

A rake of stationary coaches? Possibly 4/6-wheelers each end of some longer coaches? And is that some buffer stops just beyond them, as if they’re in a siding?

Exactly what it looks like to me too.

 

[stuving]

There are some other things, like hedge lines, that are marked on the 1895 map and can be seen in the picture. Beyond the buffers at the end of the headshunt there is a small building, and a little further and on the right is a signal post. In the picture, there is a hut in the right place (above the right gatepost), and a white post (unlike the black telegraph posts) to its right.

The goods train is exactly where a train would be for shunting into or out of the yard.

 

[randyrippley]

I'm confused by the snow suggesting winter, yet those hilltop trees looking fully leaved. Strange.
Can only assume it was a very late snowfall - in May maybe, which may help dating the photo

==edit==
Just checked, apparently they are beech trees, which do hang onto their leaves longer - but even so it does look unusual

 

[eastwestdivide]

Snow? Or light-coloured soil on a contrasty mono film? It’s chalky round there isn’t it - see also this field nearby in a google aerial view:

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[Snow1964]

I am going to take a punt that it is looking south, just to south of Winchester (later Chesil) station. The gentle curve of the line and what looks like St Catherine's hill behind makes me think it is here. The siding with carriages would have been alongside the track, the embankment might have been built as double track width if they had surplus of material

The lack of trees and fairly bare embankments suggests quite early in railways life (was opened 1882). Probably 1890s or early 19th century. And the style of clothes (possibly Sunday best) suggests that too.

The line was single south of here (there is a viaduct that remained single, and is still there further south) but out of shot. The other clue is the bridge at Garnier Road isn't visible (which fits in with it being out of shot beyond the buffer stops)

I think it is similar to this google streetview (the foreground is now sports playing fields, and the embankment is now obscured by trees

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Maybe the sports pitches were constructed and levelled when the Winchester bypass (one of the first dual carriageway bypasses in late 1930s) was squeezed in other side of the railway, would have been lot of chalk soil to move

 

[Taunton]

The DN&S didn't have their own rolling stock, but this was provided by the GWR who worked the line for them. Looking at the loco I would guess it as being an Armstrong 0-6-0, the type which preceded the Dean Goods in construction, which latter had less of a curve to the cab roof.

 

[Gloster]

The line up from Shawford Junction to Chesil station was owned by the London & South Western, not the Great Western, with the dividing point being 9 chains south of the GW station. It is possible that the train, or at least the rear of it, is still on the LSWR.

 

[Rescars]

The DN&S didn't have their own rolling stock, but this was provided by the GWR who worked the line for them. Looking at the loco I would guess it as being an Armstrong 0-6-0, the type which preceded the Dean Goods in construction, which latter had less of a curve to the cab roof.

A good call. Explains the absence of a Belpaire firebox. Am I correct that there used to be much engine changing between the GWR and LSWR at Winchester?

 

[jumble]

This may help

Hampshire in Old Photographs

A view of St. Catherine's Hill, Winchester with a boy sitting on the gatepost. A train can be seen running along the now disused railway line. Taken in 1891. PWCM 4332

www.facebook.com

 

[Taunton]

A good call. Explains the absence of a Belpaire firebox. Am I correct that there used to be much engine changing between the GWR and LSWR at Winchester?

There may well have been, if the DN&S did not have running powers. The boundary was to the south of the DN&S Winchester station, by the goods yard, from where it was LSWR for quite some distance to Shawford Junction on the main line. I think we are actually looking at the LSWR here. In which case the loco might even be an LSWR one.

 

[The exile]

Snow? Or light-coloured soil on a contrasty mono film? It’s chalky round there isn’t it - see also this field nearby in a google aerial view:

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maps.google.com

The child doesn’t look dressed for a snowy day. That said, there was apparently significant snow (15cm) over East Anglia and the Midlands (at least) on 18th May that year, so nothing’s impossible.

 

[Taunton]

I don't think that can be snow. far too localised an area. If there was any snow around it would be on the high hill behind, where we are looking at the north-facing slope which would retain it the longest.

 

[Gloster]

The 1909 LSWR Working Timetable (reprint) shows one passenger train a day being worked south of Winchester Chesil by a GWR loco: everything else was worked by the LSWR. The loco could be an Adams 4-4-0 or 0-6-0, or even a Beattie 0-6-0.

 

[Rescars]

The picture quality is challenging. The proportions of the dome, what could be a safety valve bonnet and that both appear burnished metal (brass) all suggest GWR practice rather than LSWR. That said, there is something LSWR about the cab, but it's certainly not an Adams stovepipe chimney. Really tricky to distinguish a Drummond chimney from a GW one here, especially with a telegraph pole in the way. So is the loco GWR or LSWR? Got to be one or the other!