• Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

My suggestions for dealing with Railcards which are about to expire

Status
Not open for further replies.

Andrewlong

Member
Joined
2 Jan 2013
Messages
373
Location
Earley
Do the railcard people send out text/email reminders when railcard are about to expire? If they don't perhaps they should. Another suggestion is for online sellers to hold railcard details and to validate them when selling tickets. It's done with debit and credit cards.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

najaB

Veteran Member
Joined
28 Aug 2011
Messages
33,740
Location
Scotland
Do the railcard people send out text/email reminders when railcard are about to expire? If they don't perhaps they should.
I believe that they do send an email for cards which were bought online. However, sending an email and that email being read are two different things.
Another suggestion is for online sellers to hold railcard details and to validate them when selling tickets. It's done with debit and credit cards.
While that sounds straightforward, what happens if I want to buy a discounted ticket for travel in six weeks time, but my card expires in four?

At the end of the day, it is the responsibility of the card-holder to ensure that it's in date and that they carry it. That's not a big ask in return for a third off your train tickets.
 

island

Veteran Member
Joined
30 Dec 2010
Messages
17,914
Location
0036
Do the railcard people send out text/email reminders when railcard are about to expire? If they don't perhaps they should. Another suggestion is for online sellers to hold railcard details and to validate them when selling tickets. It's done with debit and credit cards.

How much more would you be willing to pay for your Railcard to cater for a database for all Railcard holders, a system which sends out reminders, and all the attendant staffing and resource costs?
 

Hadders

Veteran Member
Associate Staff
Senior Fares Advisor
Joined
27 Apr 2011
Messages
18,160
Do the railcard people send out text/email reminders when railcard are about to expire? If they don't perhaps they should. Another suggestion is for online sellers to hold railcard details and to validate them when selling tickets. It's done with debit and credit cards.

There are times when we have to take personal responsibility.

Technology, whilst having excellent benefits generally shouldn't be used to spoon feed us.
 

Agent_c

Member
Joined
22 Jan 2015
Messages
934
How much more would you be willing to pay for your Railcard to cater for a database for all Railcard holders, a system which sends out reminders, and all the attendant staffing and resource costs?

I really think you're exaggerating the costs involved of a database that takes a note of railcard no, expiry date, email address, and then once a week or so generates a report and form that automatically emails users in the renewal period.

Given that it would encourage renewals, it might end up making money.
 

Clip

Established Member
Joined
28 Jun 2010
Messages
10,821
I really think you're exaggerating the costs involved of a database that takes a note of railcard no, expiry date, email address, and then once a week or so generates a report and form that automatically emails users in the renewal period.

Given that it would encourage renewals, it might end up making money.

Ok but what about those who dont use modern technology?
 

anme

Established Member
Joined
8 Aug 2013
Messages
1,777
Ok but what about those who dont use modern technology?

Good point. Let's hope they close this forum soon, as those who don't use "modern technology" are not able to access it.
 

island

Veteran Member
Joined
30 Dec 2010
Messages
17,914
Location
0036
I really think you're exaggerating the costs involved of a database that takes a note of railcard no, expiry date, email address, and then once a week or so generates a report and form that automatically emails users in the renewal period.

Given that it would encourage renewals, it might end up making money.

The database would need to be built and maintained, at a cost. Staff would need to be employed to key in manual Railcard forms, at a cost. An interface would need to be built between the online Railcard sales portals and the database, at a cost. Someone would need to be paid to verify the database and marketing system's compliance with the Data Protection Act, the Privacy and Electronic Communications Regulations, and plenty of other regulations I'm sure. The application forms would need to be reprinted to state that data may be disclosed to whatever organization runs the database, at great cost. Staff would need to be paid to handle data subject access requests, process opt-out requests from marketing, ensure that customer data was deleted when no longer needed, and so on. Someone would need to build the logic to send out the emails, including no longer sending YP renewal emails to people over age, at a cost. I could go on.

So, I'll ask again. How much more would you be willing to pay for your Railcard in order to fund the renewal email database? And do you think the Railcard-buying population in general would prefer to pay this increased amount, or to look occasionally at the date printed on their Railcards, put a note in their diaries, set a reminder on their phones, or use one of a number of cost-free options?
 

maniacmartin

Established Member
Fares Advisor
Joined
15 May 2012
Messages
5,438
Location
Croydon
I think getting all TVMs and booking engines to make you key in your railcard expiry date would make a big difference. It wouldn't need to check against a central database, but would prompt those whose railcards have expired to double check and remind them of to renew the railcard.

If an invalid expiry date is keyed, it could warn the user vend the tickets with 'Railcard expiry advised' or such printed on, perhaps with the magstripe set such that the gates reject it, forcing the user to use the manual gates. This would still allow people to buy tickets in advance and then buy the railcard later, but before travel.

This method wouldn't thwart fraudsters, but would remove the 'I forgot my railcard was expired' excuse/reason.
 

bb21

Emeritus Moderator
Joined
4 Feb 2010
Messages
24,472
I think getting all TVMs and booking engines to make you key in your railcard expiry date would make a big difference. It wouldn't need to check against a central database, but would prompt those whose railcards have expired to double check and remind them of to renew the railcard.

People would soon get the wind that there is no active checking, hence key in a date after the date of travel, so even if it were effective, it would only be for a very short period of time, unless a ticket is not valid without a correctly dated Railcard, but then what about a Railcard bought to validate a ticket purchased before it?

It sounds to me like a solution looking for a problem, not you specifically, but in general.
 

talldave

Established Member
Joined
24 Jan 2013
Messages
2,687
I think getting all TVMs and booking engines to make you key in your railcard expiry date would make a big difference. It wouldn't need to check against a central database, but would prompt those whose railcards have expired to double check and remind them of to renew the railcard.

If an invalid expiry date is keyed, it could warn the user vend the tickets with 'Railcard expiry advised' or such printed on, perhaps with the magstripe set such that the gates reject it, forcing the user to use the manual gates. This would still allow people to buy tickets in advance and then buy the railcard later, but before travel.

This method wouldn't thwart fraudsters, but would remove the 'I forgot my railcard was expired' excuse/reason.

Please no! It's enough of a nightmare purchasing a ticket using the pathetic touchscreens on Southern's TVMs without having to enter yet more pointless crap.
 

swt_passenger

Veteran Member
Joined
7 Apr 2010
Messages
34,314
The SWT TVMs simply have a splash screen that appears when you select a railcard that requires you to hit an OK button to confirm you have a valid railcard with you.

The implication is that if stopped by revenue they'd be able to see from the purchase location code that you had confirmed you had a railcard at the time of sale.
 

najaB

Veteran Member
Joined
28 Aug 2011
Messages
33,740
Location
Scotland
People would soon get the wind that there is no active checking, hence key in a date after the date of travel, so even if it were effective, it would only be for a very short period of time...
I think it would be effective - not because people would be fooled by it, but because it completely removes 'I didn't know my card was out of date' as an excuse for tickets bought online.
 

DEE-DE

Member
Joined
25 Oct 2014
Messages
128
There is definitely a railcard database. I had bought my first 16-25 railcard at St Pancras International. I had requested no advertisements. But about two weeks or so before it was due to expire I received an email. I was also able to renew the railcard, as in the new start date was the day after the old on had expired.
 

bb21

Emeritus Moderator
Joined
4 Feb 2010
Messages
24,472
I think it would be effective - not because people would be fooled by it, but because it completely removes 'I didn't know my card was out of date' as an excuse for tickets bought online.

If that is all then just ask them to tick a box saying that they confirm they have a valid Railcard and to check that it is in date. There is no need for all that complication.
 

najaB

Veteran Member
Joined
28 Aug 2011
Messages
33,740
Location
Scotland
If that is all then just ask them to tick a box saying that they confirm they have a valid Railcard and to check that it is in date. There is no need for all that complication.
I agree a tick box is all that should be needed, but it leaves "I didn't read what I was ticking" as an excuse, where entering a date makes it pretty hard to say you didn't know what was up.
 

bb21

Emeritus Moderator
Joined
4 Feb 2010
Messages
24,472
I agree a tick box is all that should be needed, but it leaves "I didn't read what I was ticking" as an excuse, where entering a date makes it pretty hard to say you didn't know what was up.

Possibly, but you can't guard against ignorance / stupidity, or whatever it is you might want to call it, also as I mentioned earlier, what would you do with a Railcard which is purchased after the tickets?
 

anme

Established Member
Joined
8 Aug 2013
Messages
1,777
Possibly, but you can't guard against ignorance / stupidity, or whatever it is you might want to call it, also as I mentioned earlier, what would you do with a Railcard which is purchased after the tickets?

I think people are again missing the point. This is not going to prevent all railcard misuse, but it might reduce accidental misuse by encouraging people to check when their railcard expires.

Whether it will reduce misuse by a worthwhile amount is a different question. It might be interesting to consider what a worthwhile reduction would be - 1%, 10%, 50%, etc.
 

najaB

Veteran Member
Joined
28 Aug 2011
Messages
33,740
Location
Scotland
Possibly, but you can't guard against ignorance / stupidity, or whatever it is you might want to call it, also as I mentioned earlier, what would you do with a Railcard which is purchased after the tickets?
Then tick the box that says "I don't have a railcard but I'll buy one before I travel, if I don't then I'll be in trouble." :)
 

bb21

Emeritus Moderator
Joined
4 Feb 2010
Messages
24,472
Alternatively we could just go down the "personal responsibility" route but I appreciate that we are just going around in circles in that case.

I do wonder how many people accidentally forget that their Railcard expired. Is this really such a big problem?

A fixed £80 penalty, for example, would be a good lesson that most people will remember. If they still forget after that, then I would suggest that there are far bigger issues with personal organisation to worry about for them.
 

najaB

Veteran Member
Joined
28 Aug 2011
Messages
33,740
Location
Scotland
Alternatively we could just go down the "personal responsibility" route but I appreciate that we are just going around in circles in that case.
Oh, I'm all for personal responsibility. I don't even think there should be a tick box - I'm just thinking out loud about a simple change to the system that eliminates the excuses from the 'It's your fault that I'm in the wrong' crowd.

As I posted earlier, remembering to check your card is a small price to pay in return for a third off your rail fare.
 

causton

Established Member
Joined
4 Aug 2010
Messages
5,504
Location
Somewhere between WY372 and MV7
I don't think all railcards even get a form filled out anyway - obviously your local instructions may vary but I have seen many people, when renewing an existing one, be given just a receipt and the form for the customer to fill in gets thrown away. (Both railcards that were issued to me, and that I have issued as per what I have been told!)

Then you have the fact that railcard forms aren't exactly sent off with the highest of importance... etc... can't see the database being reliable unless it is edited by ticket office staff and the online systems as they are issued.
 

Kentish Paul

Member
Joined
25 Apr 2012
Messages
454
Location
Ashford Kent
My senior railcard expires on 13/04/15.
Just received an E-mail saying as i am an auto renewal customer i need do nothing and a new card will be sent out by first class post. (assuming my card details and address are unchanged).
My current card is my first and was bought online last April.
Seems similar to Oyster auto top up.
 

matt_world2004

Established Member
Joined
5 Nov 2014
Messages
4,581
Maybe each railcard should have an ID number. The ID number is actually an encrypted version of the railcards information. You enter the number the computer decrypts it and then advises accordingly. The encryption wouldn't even need to be strong as deliberately entering a cracked number would prove intent
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top