My mother's Key Smartcard was confiscated

[Envy123]

She travels 5 days a week between Huntingdon and Farringdon, using KeyGo. According to the system, there have been no issues with the card registering the touches at both ends. But today, a ticket inspector onboard the Thameslink train claimed that the smartcard isn't working and confiscated the card by force. He took down her details as well.

The staff at Farringdon didn't help.

What could be done about this? She had a valid ticket and now she could be prosecuted for it.

 

[Nottingham59]

This sounds most distressing for your mother.
Does the system show that she touched in at the start of her journey today? (Not sure how long this normally takes to be visible)
And did the inspector give her any paperwork?

 

[AlterEgo]

Was she issued a zero fare ticket to complete her journey?

Was she issued a receipt for the confiscation?

What grounds did the inspector have for thinking the smartcard didn't work?

What product/s are loaded on the smartcard?

Was she questioned under caution?

Was she told how to obtain a replacement smartcard?

 

[some bloke]

I'm sorry to hear this. One early task could be to write down what happened in detail, and/or make a sound recording if that's more convenient for a first version, perhaps using an app or video to record sound on a phone. Those might be helpful in responding to an allegation, and in a complaint.

Was he a revenue protection officer? Your mother might put in a subject access request, if/in case he used a body camera.

Could she give more detail about how the card was taken by force? Just in case, is there anything she did or said which might have been interpreted as suspect or provocative?

 

[Envy123]

This sounds most distressing for your mother.
Does the system show that she touched in at the start of her journey today? (Not sure how long this normally takes to be visible)
And did the inspector give her any paperwork?

KeyGo's system only shows touches made at the end of the day. Logging onto her account with her permission, also confirms this.

No, the inspector didn't give her any paperwork.

Was she issued a zero fare ticket to complete her journey?

Was she issued a receipt for the confiscation?

What grounds did the inspector have for thinking the smartcard didn't work?

What product/s are loaded on the smartcard?

Was she questioned under caution?

Was she told how to obtain a replacement smartcard?

No zero fare ticket and she wasn't given any receipt.

From what my mother told me, he claimed that it couldn't read the card.

Only KeyGo is loaded.

She wasn't questioned under caution.

No, she wasn't.

I'm sorry to hear this. One early task could be to write down what happened in detail, and/or make a sound recording if that's more convenient for a first version, perhaps using an app or video to record sound on a phone. Those might be helpful in responding to an allegation, and in a complaint.

Was he a revenue protection officer? Your mother might put in a subject access request, if/in case he used a body camera.

Could she give more detail about how the card was taken by force? Just in case, is there anything she did or said which might have been interpreted as suspect or provocative?

She took a video recording of at least part of the incident.

He was an RPI.

She tried to get the name of the officer on his badge (I think - I wasn't there) and this gave him the opportunity to take it out of her hands.

I did report this to BTP and since I made the OP, they saw my mother about it, so at least some help at the moment.

 

[Haywain]

KeyGo's system only shows touches made at the end of the day. Logging onto her account with her permission, also confirms this.

No, the inspector didn't give her any paperwork.



No zero fare ticket and she wasn't given any receipt.

From what my mother told me, he claimed that it couldn't read the card.

Only KeyGo is loaded.

She wasn't questioned under caution.

No, she wasn't.



She took a video recording of at least part of the incident.

He was an RPI.

She tried to get the name of the officer on his badge (I think - I wasn't there) and this gave him the opportunity to take it out of her hands.

I did report this to BTP and since I made the OP, they saw my mother about it, so at least some help at the moment.

I'm inclined to say this sounds extremely dubious. How did she leave the station at Farringdon without a ticket? And did she actually get the name of this (alleged) RPI?

 

[AlterEgo]

No name, no receipt, no onward ticket, no advice on how to obtain a replacement does indeed sound dubious.

Was the person in uniform?

 

[Envy123]

I'm inclined to say this sounds extremely dubious. How did she leave the station at Farringdon without a ticket? And did she actually get the name of this (alleged) RPI?

She spoke to a member of staff on duty in Farringdon and explained the situation. That staff member let her out and gave her a pass to come back to Huntingdon in the evening.

She tried to, but this RPI covered the badge name.

No name, no receipt, no onward ticket, no advice on how to obtain a replacement does indeed sound dubious.

Was the person in uniform?

Yeah, it is really strange.

He was in uniform.

 

[Haywain]

He was in uniform.

Lots of things can look like uniform. An RPI doing their job properly would not be concerned with their name being taken.

Has the card been reported as stolen to GTR?

 

[AlterEgo]

It would be good to get a look at that video.

 

[Envy123]

Lots of things can look like uniform. An RPI doing their job properly would not be concerned with their name being taken.

Has the card been reported as stolen to GTR?

Thank you.

Yes, she reported it as stolen to Thameslink.

 

[Taunton]

If as described, I would report it as a theft to the BTP.

 

[Nottingham59]

If as described, I would report it as a theft to the BTP.

I agree.

I cannot imagine any circumstances where a legitimate ticket inspector would confiscate a Key Card and not provide any receipt or other paperwork. Unless others on here can give examples where such a thing might occur, I would treat this as a matter for the police.

 

[Class800]

Even if it was an RPI, we could be looking at an assault if excessive force, age discrimination, all sorts of issues. Best to discuss with BTP and see if they are interested in the case.

 

[Haywain]

we could be looking at an assault if excessive force, age discrimination, all sorts of issues.

Let's not get ahead of ourselves. 'Confiscated by force' doesn't mean any of those things happened.

 

[Neptune]

Even if it was an RPI, we could be looking at an assault if excessive force, age discrimination, all sorts of issues. Best to discuss with BTP and see if they are interested in the case.

How on earth do you come to that conclusion? No ages whatsoever have been mentioned here.

As someone who has actually suffered from discrimination in the past I find it infuriating when assumptions are made with zero evidence. It helps no one whatsoever.

 

[Envy123]

Update - GTR escalated it as a serious matter. Turned out that the RPI was genuine and it wasn't the first time he behaved badly with a passenger.

The Key smartcard did actually register the initial touch in, as expected, but I had to autofill it on my mother's account to Farringdon, as there was no opportunity to touch out obviously. This charged a single fare as opposed to a return, and there doesn't seem to be an option to make it the return it was supposed to be.

 

[Hadders]

Good that GTR seem to be taking some internal action about this. It isn't the first time GTR have been found wanting when it comes to mis-understanding how smartcards/oyster/contactless work.

 

[Nottingham59]

Update - GTR escalated it as a serious matter. Turned out that the RPI was genuine and it wasn't the first time he behaved badly with a passenger.

The Key smartcard did actually register the initial touch in, as expected, but I had to autofill it on my mother's account to Farringdon, as there was no opportunity to touch out obviously. This charged a single fare as opposed to a return, and there doesn't seem to be an option to make it the return it was supposed to be.

Thank you for the update. Let's hope GTR make amends to your mother, as well as taking appropriate internal action.

 

[Haywain]

Update - GTR escalated it as a serious matter. Turned out that the RPI was genuine and it wasn't the first time he behaved badly with a passenger.

The Key smartcard did actually register the initial touch in, as expected, but I had to autofill it on my mother's account to Farringdon, as there was no opportunity to touch out obviously. This charged a single fare as opposed to a return, and there doesn't seem to be an option to make it the return it was supposed to be.

So, are GTR taking any further action in respect of your mother’s use of the smartcard, or is the matter closed?

I am concerned if they told you the RPI had previous for this, as that is a serious breach of confidentiality and could be seen to prejudice any action taken against him. It’s failings of that nature that cause bad staff to keep their jobs.

 

[jon0844]

I am not sure who the OP complained to, but surely so early on it seems odd that anyone would, or could, say that the member of staff had previous. As said, it's not something that should be shared with the public, nor can I imagine someone at customer services or on the Twitter team having access to personnel records.

 

[Envy123]

So, are GTR taking any further action in respect of your mother’s use of the smartcard, or is the matter closed?

I am concerned if they told you the RPI had previous for this, as that is a serious breach of confidentiality and could be seen to prejudice any action taken against him. It’s failings of that nature that cause bad staff to keep their jobs.

They confirmed that they won't take any further action, as there was indeed a touch in registered on the system.

Could explain how the RPI got away with previous incidents.

I am not sure who the OP complained to, but surely so early on it seems odd that anyone would, or could, say that the member of staff had previous. As said, it's not something that should be shared with the public, nor can I imagine someone at customer services or on the Twitter team having access to personnel records.

My mother showed the video to a member of staff. No records needed.

 

[Envy123]

Update - no, my mother received a prosecution letter related to the above about fare evasion. Even though the payment did go through the next day. What can be done please?

 

[Hadders]

What exactly have you received? Is it a court summons or a letter from GTR Prosecutions department. Can you upload a copy with personal details redacted.

 

[Envy123]

Every page of the summons received with my mother's and the RPI's info redacted.

 

[Wolfie]

They confirmed that they won't take any further action, as there was indeed a touch in registered on the system.

Could explain how the RPI got away with previous incidents.



My mother showed the video to a member of staff. No records needed.

Did you get any of your interaction with GTR in writing?

 

[Hadders]

Thanks for uploading the correspondance.

They confirmed that they won't take any further action, as there was indeed a touch in registered on the system.

Who gave you confirmation that no further action was going to be taken.

Have you got a statement confirming that there is a touch in on the system?

I would urgently contact GTR Prosecutions Department as there appears to be an error if what you have told us is correct. If they won't engage with you then I would contact a solicitor as they might be in a better position to contact GTR and get the case withdrawn.

 

[Envy123]

Did you get any of your interaction with GTR in writing?

No, that was verbal from another member of staff.

Thanks for uploading the correspondance.


Who gave you confirmation that no further action was going to be taken.

Have you got a statement confirming that there is a touch in on the system?

I would urgently contact GTR Prosecutions Department as there appears to be an error if what you have told us is correct. If they won't engage with you then I would contact a solicitor as they might be in a better position to contact GTR and get the case withdrawn.

Another member of staff did. I admit that they couldn't have commented on the case as they were not the RPI.

I have a statement that proves that my mother touched in and the system registered it.

My mother has a solicitor for another case with this RPI. Maybe he can resolve this as well. My mum and I will speak to him.

 

[Hadders]

No, that was verbal from another member of staff.

Another member of staff did. I admit that they couldn't have commented on the case as they were not the RPI.

Unfortunately that isn't going to be much help.

I have a statement that proves that my mother touched in and the system registered it.

This is critical to your mother's defence.

My mother has a solicitor for another case with this RPI. Maybe he can resolve this as well. My mum and I will speak to him.

Is this related to this case, or something else?

As a solicitor is already involved I think it will be best if you get them to assist with this.

 

[Wolfie]

Unfortunately that isn't going to be much help.


This is critical to your mother's defence.


Is this related to this case, or something else?

As a solicitor is already involved I think it will be best if you get them to assist with this.

Agreed but this case is interesting on several levels. I am intensely curious about what the "other case" with this RPI relates to?

If this prosecution proves to have arisen from one person's attempt at getting revenge for being litigated against both they and GTR could be in a very very large hole. The Court (actually either Court) will not take kindly at all to that.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Sep 2022 ==

No, that was verbal from another member of staff.



Another member of staff did. I admit that they couldn't have commented on the case as they were not the RPI.

I have a statement that proves that my mother touched in and the system registered it.

My mother has a solicitor for another case with this RPI. Maybe he can resolve this as well. My mum and I will speak to him.

The absence of anything written is unfortunate.

You may wish to go back and remove the RPI's name and the name and contact info of the person in GTR handling this issue from the summons you have posted. Leaving them up could cause issues.