My ideas for open-access TOCs

[LUYMun]

Upon studying the UK's rail network from the New Adlestrop Railway Atlas, I noticed there were a number of lines in use as for freight in the North and Midlands. I then thought if I set up an open-access operator to run services on these routes. After reviewing several of the routes, I came up with two possible routes:

1. "Cheadle Link"
- Sheffield
- Dore & Totley
- Grindleford
(every station until)
- Chinley
(via the Cheadle Heath line, avoiding Stockport and Manchester)
- Navigation Road
(every station until)
- Greenbank
(via the Hartford Curve)
- Acton Bridge
- Runcorn
- Liverpool South Parkway
- West Allerton
- Mossley Hill
- Edge Hill
- Liverpool Lime Street
Rolling stock would begin with multiple units of Class 150s transferred from Transport for Wales.
Frequency would see 6tpd (1 morning peak, 3 daytime, 1 afternoon peak, 1 evening) daily in both directions as a start. If met with high patronage, services may increase to an hourly service, and introduction of Class 230s adopting the "Commuter" specifications.
This route would avoid passing through Manchester, and travel on lesser-used lines to offer new routes (e.g. Greenbank towards Liverpool, Navigation Road towards Sheffield).

2. "Cross Midlands"
- Nottingham
- Beestone
- Attenborough
(via the Castle Donington line)
- Willington
- Burton-on-Trent
- Tamworth
- Wilnecote
- Coleshill Parkway
- Water Orton
(via the Sutton Park line)
- Walsall
- Wolverhampton
- Penkridge
- Stafford
- Stone
- Barlaston (once reopened)
- Stoke-on-Trent
Again, trains on this service would start with several Class 150s units transferred from Transport for Wales.
Frequency would see 8tpd (2 morning peak, 3 daytime, 2 afternoon peak, 1 evening) in both directions, slightly more than the above due to the freight line not being single-track. If met with high patronage, services may increase, and introduction of Class 230s adopting the "Commuter" specifications.
This route would increase frequency at stations solely operated by CrossCountry (Wilnecote, Burton-on-Trent, Willington) and offer routes that avoid Birmingham.

 

[swt_passenger]

What’s the common destination for every open access operator so far? London, and it’s not exactly random is it. It’s the only realistic way of making any money...

 

[London Trains]

2. "Cross Midlands"
- Nottingham
- Beeston
- Attenborough
(via the Castle Donington line)
- Willington
- Burton-on-Trent
- Tamworth
- Wilnecote
- Coleshill Parkway
- Water Orton
(via the Sutton Park line)
- Walsall
- Wolverhampton
- Penkridge
- Stafford
- Stone
- Barlaston (once reopened)
- Stoke-on-Trent

What is the point in this service? It is just duplicating services and avoiding the places people want to go!

I do agree that some of the XC stations need better frequencies, but this would not be of use to most, who are heading to Birmingham or Derby. For travelling to Stafford or Stoke from Nottingham - Water Orton it is easier to change at Derby, Tamworth or Birmingham.

Walsall to Wolves I agree needs a better service but this would be much better in the form of a high frequency WMR shuttle with intermediate stations connecting with other services.

For the last part from Wolves to Stoke it frankly duplicates the Birmingham to Crewe service with substandard diesel rolling stock. Anyone would choose a 350 over a 150 or 230!

 

[London Trains]

1. "Cheadle Link"
- Sheffield
- Dore & Totley
- Grindleford
(every station until)
- Chinley
(via the Cheadle Heath line, avoiding Stockport and Manchester)
- Navigation Road
(every station until)
- Greenbank
(via the Hartford Curve)
- Acton Bridge
- Runcorn
- Liverpool South Parkway
- West Allerton
- Mossley Hill
- Edge Hill
- Liverpool Lime Street
Rolling stock would begin with multiple units of Class 150s transferred from Transport for Wales.
Frequency would see 6tpd (1 morning peak, 3 daytime, 1 afternoon peak, 1 evening) daily in both directions as a start. If met with high patronage, services may increase to an hourly service, and introduction of Class 230s adopting the "Commuter" specifications.
This route would avoid passing through Manchester, and travel on lesser-used lines to offer new routes (e.g. Greenbank towards Liverpool, Navigation Road towards Sheffield).

Again, what is the point!

On the Hope Valley line it duplicates Northern services and would not be pathable anyway due to the mix of fast and stopping trains. It also completely avoids where people want to go (Manchester or Stockport (to change for London / Birmingham trains) Additionally the Hope Valley already has a Liverpool service via Manchester (albeit not stopping at all stations) which would most likely be faster.

Between Acton Bridge and Liverpool it again duplicates existing LNWR services, albeit stopping at some small stations before Liverpool.

Also, people who live in the Northwich area would travel to Hartford for Liverpool services, and there will most likely be 0 demand for the Hope Valley line. (Sheffield passengers could change at Stockport for much faster services, the other stations are basically irrelevant).

 

[Peter Kelford]

Surely some services like Edinburgh-Liverpool via Glasgow would make money, or Bristol to Cambridge once the 'Varsity Line' is reopened?

 

[30907]

Just a detail: 150s are 75mph units, but 230s are 60mph. Ignoring everything else, that will create pathing problems when you swap over.
That said, I've always thought there might be mileage in a fast Nottingham- Birmingham via Castle Donington, but Ive no idea what the state of the route is.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Advance warning: I've got "ORCATS raid" on my Rf Bingo card...

For OA to be successful it seems to need four key things: Firstly, a market that is large enough to build a reasonable customer base. Secondly, that market being underserved by existing operators. Thirdly, the backing of a wealthy individual or existing transport corporation. Finally, available capacity on the network for the Open Access services.
Even assuming that Covid restrictions will fade into memory sooner rather than later, there aren't many markets large enough that aren't already served. The existing Open Access routes both have London at one end, and are reasonably large cities which are underserved due to either having a larger neighbour where franchises services are railheaded (GC) or out on a limb geographically (Hull Trains). I'm not sure there's anywhere that fits the bill to be honest. Maybe Blackburn and Bolton combined, but good luck getting a path on the WCML and competing with Avanti's frequent service from Preston or Manchester that most users are happy to connect into.

 

[takno]

Middlesbrough and Sunderland to Scotland

 

[HST43257]

Middlesbrough and Sunderland to Scotland

Where is the market?

 

[Railwaysceptic]

Where is the market?

Given the substantial total populations of the towns involved, I'd have thought in normal, non-Covid times a service from Glasgow Central calling at Motherwell, Haymarket, Waverley, Berwick, Newcastle, Sunderland, Hartlepool and Middlesbrough would serve a very considerable market.

 

[takno]

Where is the market?

Presumably in Middlesbrough and Sunderland.

 

[py_megapixel]

I can think of plenty of places that could really do with an open-access service, because the franchised one is one or more of overcrowded, overpriced, uncomfortable, or not serving stations that could really do with a service. However, none of them would ever happen because of the stupid rule about not being primarily abstractive of revenue.

 

[Whistler40145]

Upon studying the UK's rail network from the New Adlestrop Railway Atlas, I noticed there were a number of lines in use as for freight in the North and Midlands. I then thought if I set up an open-access operator to run services on these routes. After reviewing several of the routes, I came up with two possible routes:

1. "Cheadle Link"
- Sheffield
- Dore & Totley
- Grindleford
(every station until)
- Chinley
(via the Cheadle Heath line, avoiding Stockport and Manchester)
- Navigation Road
(every station until)
- Greenbank
(via the Hartford Curve)
- Acton Bridge
- Runcorn
- Liverpool South Parkway
- West Allerton
- Mossley Hill
- Edge Hill
- Liverpool Lime Street
Rolling stock would begin with multiple units of Class 150s transferred from Transport for Wales.
Frequency would see 6tpd (1 morning peak, 3 daytime, 1 afternoon peak, 1 evening) daily in both directions as a start. If met with high patronage, services may increase to an hourly service, and introduction of Class 230s adopting the "Commuter" specifications.
This route would avoid passing through Manchester, and travel on lesser-used lines to offer new routes (e.g. Greenbank towards Liverpool, Navigation Road towards Sheffield).

2. "Cross Midlands"
- Nottingham
- Beestone
- Attenborough
(via the Castle Donington line)
- Willington
- Burton-on-Trent
- Tamworth
- Wilnecote
- Coleshill Parkway
- Water Orton
(via the Sutton Park line)
- Walsall
- Wolverhampton
- Penkridge
- Stafford
- Stone
- Barlaston (once reopened)
- Stoke-on-Trent
Again, trains on this service would start with several Class 150s units transferred from Transport for Wales.
Frequency would see 8tpd (2 morning peak, 3 daytime, 2 afternoon peak, 1 evening) in both directions, slightly more than the above due to the freight line not being single-track. If met with high patronage, services may increase, and introduction of Class 230s adopting the "Commuter" specifications.
This route would increase frequency at stations solely operated by CrossCountry (Wilnecote, Burton-on-Trent, Willington) and offer routes that avoid Birmingham.

I like the route idea, but the class of unit for such long distance isn't great.

Personally, needs to be the quality of at least 2x156 as standard or for more luxury 1x158 3 car or 2x158 2 car

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Given the substantial total populations of the towns involved, I'd have thought in normal, non-Covid times a service from Glasgow Central calling at Motherwell, Haymarket, Waverley, Berwick, Newcastle, Sunderland, Hartlepool and Middlesbrough would serve a very considerable market.

Anyone remember the GNER Glasgow - London via Edinburgh? .

There was a reasonable flow from Glasgow towards Newcastle on it , and the service offer was eventually transferred to Cross Country via Birmingham . By reasonable , a fair flow - but certainly not enough to finance a similar independant service , - extended to say Middlesborough.

(it may surprise people that "extensions" of core services - beyond Swansea say to Carmarthen and Pembroke Dock , and many others in various parts of the UK , even if written into "franchise" specs are always kept under review and a carefull eye kept on patronage. When things were more normal anyway)