My idea to improve Stratford (London) capacity issues

[AlanFry1]

With parts of Stratford London suffering a capacity issue, and the station growing into one of if not soon the countries busiest station.

Why not re-route most trains on the overground to Stratford International? And terminate the DLR at Stratford Low Level rather than International?

This would in turn allow the possibility for another pedestrian subway across the station, allow WAML services of 5/6 coach formation to terminate on the overground platforms via the channelsea loop (I think) and a much needed enhancement on the WAML fasts via stratford which are bound to happen after Crossrail at stratford.

The biggest issue would be cost and an increase in pedestrians walking from international to regional, however developments could also be done on the road from international to regional, which currently is rather uninviting...

 

[jopsuk]

The WAML platforms aren't a capacity constraint, no need to **** off the Overground passengers by dumping them at International.

 

[Class 170101]

If anything there needs to be a service between Stratford and Seven Sisters and onwards to Enfield Town to improve connectivity on this route into what is really become a major centre of development.

 

[DPQ]

There's already 3? Subways at Stratford.

I accept they (2 of them) are busy during peaks, but culling the DLR short is not the answer.

 

[racyrich]

If anything there needs to be a service between Stratford and Seven Sisters and onwards to Enfield Town to improve connectivity on this route into what is really become a major centre of development.

Sounds like a Woolwich to Palace Gates service.

I must admit I never understood the point of converting the Woolwich line to DLR.

 

[Dr Hoo]

I must admit I never understood the point of converting the Woolwich line to DLR.

So you would be quite happy to change onto what is now the Overground at Stratford, to Silvertown and then carry your luggage to London City Airport?

(Other journeys, e.g. to Woolwich, are also possible but there is always the ferry or foot subway I suppose.)

 

[NSEFAN]

Sounds like a Woolwich to Palace Gates service.

I must admit I never understood the point of converting the Woolwich line to DLR.

Given the DLR was already present in the area, I guess it made sense to make Stratford International - Canning Town part of the network so that some kind of rail service from the North Woolwich area - Stratford via West Ham could be re-instated. North Woolwich was closed to make way for Crossrail, which re-uses the old route from Custom House to Silvertown.

 

[racyrich]

So you would be quite happy to change onto what is now the Overground at Stratford, to Silvertown and then carry your luggage to London City Airport?

(Other journeys, e.g. to Woolwich, are also possible but there is always the ferry or foot subway I suppose.)

AFAIK there are only rush hour DLRs direct from Stratford to Woolwich Arsenal/City Airport. The rest of the day they go to Beckton and you'd have to change at Canning Town anyway. Which you can do on the Jubilee too.

 

[Kite159]

And give it a few years time potentially not all the Overground services will be terminating at Stratford as they will be extended to Angel Road

http://content.tfl.gov.uk/fpc-160727-item11-star-p1.pdf

 

[hwl]

And give it a few years time potentially not all the Overground services will be terminating at Stratford as they will be extended to Angel Road

http://content.tfl.gov.uk/fpc-160727-item11-star-p1.pdf

Except StAR services will be run by Anglia not TfL/LO as the present via Lea Bridge services are so no extensions and just more Anglia WAML trains terminating at P11 & 12.

Crossrail will hopefully decrease the number of passenger transfers at Stratford especially to/from the Central line.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

AFAIK there are only rush hour DLRs direct from Stratford to Woolwich Arsenal/City Airport. The rest of the day they go to Beckton and you'd have to change at Canning Town anyway. Which you can do on the Jubilee too.

I'm pretty sure Stratford-Woolwich DLR now runs at least every 10 minutes throughout the day.

 

[jopsuk]

STAR as currently proposed will be a shuttle; in the Crossrail 2 consultations it was pencilled in as running up to Broxbourne and possibly beyond.

If we're doing fantasy, then yes, an Enfield service seems a good idea (might need better chords) but I'd bid to reinstate the curve to allow a Stratford-Chingford local service. I'd add a Ruckholt Road/Olympic park North station too. I wouldn't suggest running any of these through on the North London Line though, better to run the north side of Stratford station as an Overground hub (I'd definitely make STAR and these Entitled and Chingford services Overground). I would though make all four platforms (1/2/11/12) accessible from both sides- would need a lot of rebuilding.

 

[rebmcr]

AFAIK there are only rush hour DLRs direct from Stratford to Woolwich Arsenal/City Airport. The rest of the day they go to Beckton and you'd have to change at Canning Town anyway. Which you can do on the Jubilee too.

No, the opposite, International-Beckton is the peak-only route.

 

[swt_passenger]

I must admit I never understood the point of converting the Woolwich line to DLR.

It was fairly well analysed and justified at the time, perhaps DfT and TfL were wrong all along?

http://webarchive.nationalarchives..../pgr/rail/pi/northlondonlineclosurestratf1403

 

[hozza94]

No, the opposite, International-Beckton is the peak-only route.

I thought it was Stratford-Woolwich whole day, with off-peak Canning Town- Beckton?

 

[plcd1]

STAR as currently proposed will be a shuttle; in the Crossrail 2 consultations it was pencilled in as running up to Broxbourne and possibly beyond.

If we're doing fantasy, then yes, an Enfield service seems a good idea (might need better chords) but I'd bid to reinstate the curve to allow a Stratford-Chingford local service. I'd add a Ruckholt Road/Olympic park North station too. I wouldn't suggest running any of these through on the North London Line though, better to run the north side of Stratford station as an Overground hub (I'd definitely make STAR and these Entitled and Chingford services Overground). I would though make all four platforms (1/2/11/12) accessible from both sides- would need a lot of rebuilding.

The service pattern for Stratford - Angel Road is a mix of services. A 2 tph service from Hertfordshire to Stratford (similar to now) with a 2 tph stopper using the additional track being added. As things currently stand all the trains will be operated by Greater Anglia. It remains to be seen whether NR can path GA trains in such a way that the longer distance service can stop at Lea Bridge, T Hale, Northumberland Park and the relocated Angel Rd (Meridian Water) station. Current timetables don't give a full "all stations" service except in very limited circumstances on the main line tracks.

Much as I would love to see a Chingford - Stratford service it's not viable and is in no one's plans (based on what I was told by an Informed Source a few years back). Upping the frequency through Lea Bridge will trigger a need for at least 1 extra platform at Stratford with all the consequent track and resignalling costs. I expect that is going to prove a very significant cost hurdle for any future expansion of services on that route.

Returning to the original question I think Stratford will continue to see enormous growth. There will be some rejigging of interchange flows in the station but that will only bring temporary respite if development in East London continues apace. One thing that needs to be considered is an extra street entrance that would allow more people to access and use the large eastern link corridor. It's relatively underused but if you could shift a portion of entry / exit flow to that corridor you would stand a chance of gaining some respite on the central and western link corridors. There is to be a new entrance to the west off the Jubilee Line platforms which will also help.

The other thing that needs attention is the Jubilee Line - Street flow. At present it involves an "up and over" movement which is constrained capacity wise. In time that will have to be fixed but it may require "surgery" to the main station entrance.

 

[greatkingrat]

The service pattern for Stratford - Angel Road is a mix of services. A 2 tph service from Hertfordshire to Stratford (similar to now) with a 2 tph stopper using the additional track being added. As things currently stand all the trains will be operated by Greater Anglia. It remains to be seen whether NR can path GA trains in such a way that the longer distance service can stop at Lea Bridge, T Hale, Northumberland Park and the relocated Angel Rd (Meridian Water) station. Current timetables don't give a full "all stations" service except in very limited circumstances on the main line tracks.

The Arriva Rail London concession agreement gives TfL the option of adding the 2tph stoppers to Angel Road to the overground concession.

 

[Class 170101]

There's already 3? Subways at Stratford.

I accept they (2 of them) are busy during peaks, but culling the DLR short is not the answer.

Sounds like a Woolwich to Palace Gates service.

I must admit I never understood the point of converting the Woolwich line to DLR.

The Eastern Subway really needs an exit route at both ends towards Westfield to the west and Stratford High Street to the east to make it busier and more useful. Currently it is really only useful for interchange flows in my experinece this is what it tends to see.

The single line sections of the old route makde the NLL hard to operate. 3tph on the single line section at best was all that was possible. On the 4tph service that ran on the rest of the line half terminated at Stratford. Now with 6 to 8tph it would make the Woolwich section look poor. I think the DLR is a better option as it provides more services and more local stations.

As for Stratford to Enfield yes its similar to the Palace Gates service.

 

[Class 170101]

Upping the frequency through Lea Bridge will trigger a need for at least 1 extra platform at Stratford with all the consequent track and resignalling costs. I expect that is going to prove a very significant cost hurdle for any future expansion of services on that route.

Hmmm.... far from convinced about the extra platform being needed at Stratford on that side to be honest. it should be possible to get 4tph to use one platform (12 minute turnaround) and even if both have to be used the only issue becomes accss to / from Orient Way CS. This wouldn't justify an extra platform being built, on its own.

 

[Abpj17]

I don't really see how that helps passengers?

Will Crossrail ease it somewhat reducing the proportion that need to change at stratford?

 

[Class 170101]

I don't really see how that helps passengers?

Will Crossrail ease it somewhat reducing the proportion that need to change at stratford?

Crossrail will almost ceratinly increase interchange flows there.

 

[plcd1]

The Arriva Rail London concession agreement gives TfL the option of adding the 2tph stoppers to Angel Road to the overground concession.

I know and I assume that is a contingency measure in case the DfT didn't specify / does not implement what is required in terms of service levels at Meridian Water to meet the commitments made to the private sector housing developers. I doubt the DfT will allow City Hall to provide any services on that line so long as Grayling has anything to do with it.

 

[plcd1]

Hmmm.... far from convinced about the extra platform being needed at Stratford on that side to be honest. it should be possible to get 4tph to use one platform (12 minute turnaround) and even if both have to be used the only issue becomes accss to / from Orient Way CS. This wouldn't justify an extra platform being built, on its own.

I understand that. I am just referencing official reports and studies that quote the need for an extra platform just to the east of platform 11. I think part of the issue is, as you say, at certain times the volume of ECS movements are such that you can't have 11 and 12 occupied. Furthermore there is the need to be able to cope with service diversions across Stratford when the route via Hackney Downs is closed. Given London services often have the same service levels on Sundays as on weekdays this could prove problematic at Stratford if you need to run Stansted Expresses via Stratford and possibly terminate additional trains at Stratford itself.

 

[plcd1]

Crossrail will almost ceratinly increase interchange flows there.

I think we will see three things happen.

1. We will see Crossrail *change* the pattern of interchange flows initially.

2. Once journey patterns start to stabilise we will see a different pattern and volume of interchange flows at Stratford. I honestly don't know how much of any increase we will see in first 2-3 years because of the removal of the need for so much Shenfield line - Central line interchange.

3. We will see an increase in overall demand at Stratford - i.e. as origin and destination. This is partly because more people will have easier trips to reach Stratford and also because of the large scale developments in build / planned for the area.

I would hate to be trying to predict what might happen as the Crossrail service builds up and the range of destinations change over a 12-18 month period. The enhanced Thameslink service via Farringdon is also a key factor here.