My idea: Replace Worcester Foregate with cable car to Shrub Hill

[Sprinter107]

So if Foregate Street were to close, where would all the trains go, because Shrub Hill wouldnt cope with them. During recent engineering works which entailed the closure of Foregate Street, the frequency had to be reduced, with some Kidderminster line trains starting directly off the shed, and running ECS to Droitwich to start service, be cause Shrub Hill couldnt cope with Foregate Streets trains. Anybody that travels through Shrub Hill, especially in the peaks will know what its like to be standing outside waiting for a train to move. During the middle of the day, Kidderminster line trains starting at Shrub Hill can be very lightly loaded, not so from Foregate Street. Shrub Hill can be so devoid of passengers, it takes on the appearance of a backwater. Passengers prefer Foregate Street. Any attempt to close Foregate Street would be met with fierce opposition I'm sure.

 

[squizzler]

You sign off your posts with Crayon? Play on.
The cable car idea for the Eden North project is just a bigger pie in the sky idea than yours.

One of the kinder responses!

In your idea, have you thought where the pylons will go to hold up the cables without extensive demolition?

Nope, I chose to leave that as an exercise for the reader. The map on the OP shows plenty of places (car parks, highway verges) it could use.

You talk about the business case being justified by the savings from closing Foregate Street. What savings? Locking the station up and leaving it to rot? Staff savings when the staff would have to be relocated to Shrub Hill to deal with the increase in passengers through that station? What additional revenue will be raised from the cable car when tickets already show Worcester Stations?

By consolidating the staff from two sites onto one the number of staff may not reduce but the more services can be offered to the customer. For instance whereas now there may be one identical cafe in each, there can be the opportunity to have the different style of refreshment outlet: a coffee shop and a place for sit-down eating, for instance.

Crayon? Play on.

Need I say any more?

I am pleased to own the Crayonista mantle, although I do hold a degree in planning with Transport. I cannot imaging how infuriating it must be to you when some of us fail to be offended by the mere use of the word 'crayon', even if you use it in your post twice!

Foregate St attracts nearly three times as many passengers as Shrub Hill. While I think some local higher frequency connection between the two could be useful, closure of the more central station would be nonsense.

Please look at the map on OP: the cable car does NOT link the Foregate to Shrub Hill. It goes to the central shopping centre and bus station. unfortunately many - who I suspect live in a rail enthusiast bubble - conflate Foregate with Worcester city centre. Foregate is certainly a lot closer than Shrub Hill but my proposal goes to the real centre.

So if Foregate Street were to close, where would all the trains go, because Shrub Hill wouldnt cope with them. During recent engineering works which entailed the closure of Foregate Street, the frequency had to be reduced, with some Kidderminster line trains starting directly off the shed, and running ECS to Droitwich to start service, be cause Shrub Hill couldnt cope with Foregate Streets trains. Anybody that travels through Shrub Hill, especially in the peaks will know what its like to be standing outside waiting for a train to move. During the middle of the day, Kidderminster line trains starting at Shrub Hill can be very lightly loaded, not so from Foregate Street. Shrub Hill can be so devoid of passengers, it takes on the appearance of a backwater. Passengers prefer Foregate Street. Any attempt to close Foregate Street would be met with fierce opposition I'm sure.

Shrub Hill is a spacious site where a modern station could be built that can handle present and future passenger growth. I agree it would not be acceptable to shutter Foregate as things stand, my proposal would have to be in position first.

Ironically to make my proposal happen it might be desirable to temporarily close Shrub hill and rebuild it in one go, and upgrades to Foregate, such as to the signalling, might be needed to allow this.

 

[Sprinter107]

One of the kinder responses!



By consolidating the staff from two sites onto one the number of staff may not reduce but the more services can be offered to the customer. For instance whereas now there may be one identical cafe in each, there can be the opportunity to have the different style of refreshment outlet: a coffee shop and a place for sit-down eating, for instance.



I am pleased to own the Crayonista mantle, although I do hold a degree in planning with Transport. I cannot imaging how infuriating it must be to you when some of us fail to be offended by the mere use of the word 'crayon', even if you use it in your post twice!



Please look at the map on OP: the cable car does NOT link the Foregate to Shrub Hill. It goes to the central shopping centre and bus station. unfortunately many - who I suspect live in a rail enthusiast bubble - conflate Foregate with Worcester city centre. Foregate is certainly a lot closer than Shrub Hill but my proposal goes to the real centre.



Foregate is a spacious site where a modern station could be built that can handle present and future passenger growth. I agree it would not be acceptable to shutter Foregate as things stand, my proposal would have to be in position first.

Ironically to make my proposal happen it might be desirable to temporarily close Shrub hill and rebuild it in one go, and upgrades to Foregate, such as to the signalling, might be needed to allow this.

So some passengers from Malvern and Hereford would encounter longer journey times, and actually pass through where they wanted to be, and be unable to alight. Some of the trains that terminate at Shrub Hill from Hereford will empty at Foregate Street, and run empty to Shrub Hill. May I ask, do you actually use the trains through Worcester, because I think your idea osnt very passenger friendly at all.

 

[squizzler]

So some passengers from Malvern and Hereford would encounter longer journey times, and actually pass through where they wanted to be, and be unable to alight. Some of the trains that terminate at Shrub Hill from Hereford will empty at Foregate Street, and run empty to Shrub Hill. May I ask, do you actually use the trains through Worcester, because I think your idea osnt very passenger friendly at all.

Actually I am very familiar with this service. What is needed is for trains arriving from Hereford to couple to a waiting unit at Shrub Hill so as to strengthen the onward service between Worcester and Birmingham and better match capacity to traffic on these two legs of the same journey. The new units on order will have corridor connections to allow such splitting and joining.

 

[Sprinter107]

So, you want to close a popular station, where people want to get off, and make them go to a station where they dont want to be. This is crazy. And all the disruption while your idea of Shrub Hill being closed and rebuilt. It is listed, so there is only so much that can be done there. No offence, but I'm so glad that tour not in charge of transport in that area.

 

[squizzler]

So, you want to close a popular station, where people want to get off, and make them go to a station where they dont want to be. This is crazy.

most new stations proposed on HS2, (Old road Common, Birmingham Interchange, East Midlands Hub) are 'stations where people don't want to be'. Like those on HS2, a new station on the Shrub Hill site can address the constraints and failings of the Victorian legacy network. The trick is to link to onward destinations and I propose a cablecar, but other solutions might be appropriate.

And all the disruption while your idea of Shrub Hill being closed and rebuilt. It is listed, so there is only so much that can be done there. No offence, but I'm so glad that tour not in charge of transport in that area.

Listed buildings can be razed if society deems it necessary. Most people say Steventon Bridge should have been taken down by now. Of course good design would preserve the more important heritage and still meet the brief.

What surprises me is that most people here feel it not only acceptable that a city as large as Worcester, and with potential as a network hub, should in practice be a two platform halt (the Shrub Hill site being a backwater at best, closed in favour of Parkway at worst). Maybe there is some consolation that if the latter comes to pass it will at last be practical to take a train from there to Bristol without going North first.

 

[Llanigraham]

I am interested by the recent proposal to connect the Eden project North in Morecambe with Lancaster Station as discussed on this thread and feel it provides a useful comparison with my own proposal including the opportunity to guess costs.

I feel the worcester link to be technically simpler (shorter, no bends), less intrusive on residential property (see route map on original post)and enjoy a stronger business case due to savings from the closure of Foregate Street Station. I imagine traffic levels would also be more even during the day than a system conceived to serve a tourist attraction whose flows would be more tidal.

We spent last weekend staying in Worcester, and up until 2003 we lived and worked in Worcester for 26 years, and quite frankly your idea is totally preposterous. I wonder, have actually been to the city?
There would be residential properties in full view of this "thing".
There is NO business case to support it or the closure of any station.
Foregate St Station has very large passenger footfall because it is close to the commercial and retail areas of the city, and is ideal for commuters from Malvern, Droitwich and further afield.
Shrub Hill Station is a long walk from both of those, up a hill and across a major road and a canal.
Tourists travel to Worcester to see the Cathedral and the river, easily served by Foregate St Station.

A suggestion; crayons, put them away!

 

[Llanigraham]

Foregate is a spacious site where a modern station could be built that can handle present and future passenger growth. I agree it would not be acceptable to shutter Foregate as things stand, my proposal would have to be in position first.

Ironically to make my proposal happen it might be desirable to temporarily close Shrub hill and rebuild it in one go, and upgrades to Foregate, such as to the signalling, might be needed to allow this.

Foregate St Station site is NOT spacious!
The ticket office area is in one arch of the long viaduct and embankment across the city, hemmed in by the Old Post Office buildings, and numerous commercial buildings, (I know I worked in one for 20 years!) some of which are listed. It's 2 platforms are narrow and on the top of this structure and there is NO room to extend them.

 

[Sprinter107]

Bristol trains do run from both Foregste Street and Shrub Hill.

 

[PartyOperator]

Listed buildings can be razed if society deems it necessary. Most people say Steventon Bridge should have been taken down by now. Of course good design would preserve the more important heritage and still meet the brief.

What surprises me is that most people here feel it not only acceptable that a city as large as Worcester, and with potential as a network hub, should in practice be a two platform halt (the Shrub Hill site being a backwater at best, closed in favour of Parkway at worst). Maybe there is some consolation that if the latter comes to pass it will at last be practical to take a train from there to Bristol without going North first.

Steventon Bridge is one bridge that's causing a lot of inconvenience, not a station that's used by almost a million passengers a year.

It won't be possible to go directly to Bristol from Worcestershire Parkway, unlike Shrub Hill and Foregate Street which do have direct trains to Bristol.

If anywhere needs a new station on the XC line and a people mover to the existing station it's Gloucester, not Worcester.

 

[squizzler]

Foregate St Station site is NOT spacious!
The ticket office area is in one arch of the long viaduct and embankment across the city, hemmed in by the Old Post Office buildings, and numerous commercial buildings, (I know I worked in one for 20 years!) some of which are listed. It's 2 platforms are narrow and on the top of this structure and there is NO room to extend them.

Oops, my bad. I meant Shrub Hill and have corrected it now. Foregate is, of course, very constrained. With separate long stairs up to each platform it almost resembles an underground station except having to climb to the platforms rather than descend. And what will happen when public transport use doubles? The West Midlands is rapidly changing from a museum of grim post war motorcar centric planning (think Coventry ring road and centre, the M6 and Spaghetti Junction) to a public transport economy (Birmingham tram, Nuneaton and Kenilworth stations, HS2). How can Foregate handle all those people safely, if the status quo is to keep all services calling there, let alone rise to the challenge of more frequent services to more destinations? Maybe like some underground stations we can expect it to close during periods of dangerous crowding, in which case everybody will have to trudge up to Shrub Hill?

 

[Llanigraham]

I fail to understand what an increase in passenger numbers in Nuneaton or Kenilworth has to do with the usage of Foregate St station, and what extra destinations do you think are going to be served by Foregate St?

There is NO business case to support the building of it or the closure of any station.
Foregate St Station has very large passenger footfall because it is close to the commercial and retail areas of the city, and is ideal for commuters from Malvern, Droitwich and further afield, when they come into Worcester for work or shopping. It is also convenient for the University and The Hive. Shrub Hill Station is a long walk from all of these, up a hill and across a major road and a canal. I lived just behind Shrub Hill for several years and know exactly how tedious and wearing that walk it and from town can be. I certainly wouldn't want to do it with any luggage.
Tourists travel to Worcester to see the Cathedral and the river, easily served by Foregate St Station.

 

[PartyOperator]

Oops, my bad. I meant Shrub Hill and have corrected it now. Foregate is, of course, very constrained. With separate long stairs up to each platform it almost resembles an underground station except having to climb to the platforms rather than descend. And what will happen when public transport use doubles?

Maybe something truly radical like, I dunno, escalators? More frequent trains would let you increase the number of people without increasing crowding on the platforms - there are plenty of simple things that can be done to allow this, the main one being sorting out the silly arrangement of rails (as covered in this thread). Underground stations safely handle many times more passengers than Foregate Street, but I don't think there's that much danger of WOF becoming the next Oxford Circus...