My idea for 2tph between Salisbury and Yeovil Junction

[PTR 444]

Following on from a response on the Okehampton thread, I’m wondering if you could run a regular 2tph service on the WofE Line between Salisbury and Yeovil Junction. Pre-Covid it was 3tp2h with every other Waterloo - Salisbury terminator continuing to Yeovil Pen Mill, so to get to 2tph you would theoretically just need to extend the other one. It’s just a case of whether you can thread it through the single track sections.

If this is workable, you could then speed up the Waterloo - Exeter service by skipping Tisbury and Templecombe, as these would now be served by an all-day hourly extension of the Salisbury terminator to Yeovil Pen Mill. Combined with skipping Feniton and Whimple* further down the line, this would make the Waterloo - Exeter service more competitive with GWR from Paddington.

A downside of this idea is that Templecombe and Tisbury will have a slower journey time to London since their train will now call at all stations between Salisbury and Basingstoke. An alternative idea to resolve this could be to introduce portion working so that the Yeovil section is split from the fast Exeter service at Salisbury, but at the cost of direct services between Overton/Whitchurch/Grateley and stations west of SAL.

*These stations should be served by the proposed hourly Axminster - Barnstaple service. If I had my way I would be extending that to Weymouth via a reversal at YVP

 

[JonathanH]

Waterloo to Exeter services pass at Tisbury Loop and then again near Sherborne on the double track section between a point west of Templecombe and Yeovil Junction.

Tisbury Loop to Templecombe is about 20 minutes so a half hourly service in both directions would have to cross one train at Tisbury loop and another at the loop at Gillingham. That would have to happen all day effectively using 100% of the capacity between Wilton Junction and the double track section. I'd imagine that is why it has never been done.

 

[cactustwirly]

Following on from a response on the Okehampton thread, I’m wondering if you could run a regular 2tph service on the WofE Line between Salisbury and Yeovil Junction. Pre-Covid it was 3tp2h with every other Waterloo - Salisbury terminator continuing to Yeovil Pen Mill, so to get to 2tph you would theoretically just need to extend the other one. It’s just a case of whether you can thread it through the single track sections.

If this is workable, you could then speed up the Waterloo - Exeter service by skipping Tisbury and Templecombe, as these would now be served by an all-day hourly extension of the Salisbury terminator to Yeovil Pen Mill. Combined with skipping Feniton and Whimple* further down the line, this would make the Waterloo - Exeter service more competitive with GWR from Paddington.

A downside of this idea is that Templecombe and Tisbury will have a slower journey time to London since their train will now call at all stations between Salisbury and Basingstoke. An alternative idea to resolve this could be to introduce portion working so that the Yeovil section is split from the fast Exeter service at Salisbury, but at the cost of direct services between Overton/Whitchurch/Grateley and stations west of SAL.

*These stations should be served by the proposed hourly Axminster - Barnstaple service. If I had my way I would be extending that to Weymouth via a reversal at YVP

Why what would this gain?
Who is going to use this new service?

This route will never compete with the GWML from Paddington, as that has a higher linespeed, less stops and obviously no passing loops

 

[PTR 444]

Why what would this gain?
Who is going to use this new service?

This route will never compete with the GWML from Paddington, as that has a higher linespeed, less stops and obviously no passing loops

Better connectivity for East Devon? The areas around Pinhoe and Cranbrook have grown rapidly over the past few years and could do with better, faster services to points east. It’s not just about Exeter to London but also Exeter to Southampton, Portsmouth, Basingstoke etc

 

[Grecian 1998]

There is precisely zero chance of it happening currently as an all day service in both directions because the line struggles to maintain the existing hourly service the moment anything goes wrong. If you tried to introduce a second service on the Salisbury - Yeovil section it would be cancelled more often than not.

There are already (or were pre-COVID) some extra services in the peaks, but only eastbound in the morning and westbound in the evening. This leaves very little margin for error if something goes wrong.

That said, the NR study of the line from 2020 (available here: https://www.networkrail.co.uk/wp-co...udy-Continuous-Modular-Strategic-Planning.pdf) makes clear NR's view is that the current infrastructure is inadequate for the existing service frequency. It does however also indicate that 2tph Salisbury - Yeovil does seem to be a relatively high priority, although 2tph Axminster-Exeter is higher. However it is also clear that unless Tisbury loop is extended significantly, which is the main restriction on capacity, then 2tph Salisbury - Yeovil is a pipe dream.

 

[JonathanH]

If the service was sped up though, you might suddenly find that Axminster passing loop is in the wrong place - there arguably isn't much scope to speed up a timetable that runs on a single line.

 

[cactustwirly]

Better connectivity for East Devon? The areas around Pinhoe and Cranbrook have grown rapidly over the past few years and could do with better, faster services to points east. It’s not just about Exeter to London but also Exeter to Southampton, Portsmouth, Basingstoke etc

What's the demand for Cranbrook to Southampton?

Is it going to fill a 159 every two hours? Probably not, so why waste a load of money for a service which appeals to very few.

 

[swt_passenger]

Following on from a response on the Okehampton thread, I’m wondering if you could run a regular 2tph service on the WofE Line between Salisbury and Yeovil Junction. Pre-Covid it was 3tp2h with every other Waterloo - Salisbury terminator continuing to Yeovil Pen Mill, so to get to 2tph you would theoretically just need to extend the other one. It’s just a case of whether you can thread it through the single track sections.

It needs additional infrastructure as has already been pointed out. But there’s really no need to come up with your own ideas, Network Rail have already (2020) published 80 pages on the subject of the West of England line, including inter alia the infrastructure interventions required for 2 tph as far as Yeovil Junction.

https://www.networkrail.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/West-of-England-Study-Continuous-Modular-Strategic-Planning.pdf

Didn’t we already have a thread about this, ah yes here we are:

Network Rail West of England Line Study 2020

Network Rail have published a study about the WoE line, particularly the Salisbury - Exeter section, which can be seen here: https://www.networkrail.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/West-of-England-Study-Continuous-Modular-Strategic-Planning.pdf Whilst it's a long document, the first 9 pages...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[The Ham]

Why what would this gain?
Who is going to use this new service?

This route will never compete with the GWML from Paddington, as that has a higher linespeed, less stops and obviously no passing loops

Any extra passengers would unlikely be from London for the reasons given, however that doesn't mean that no-one is going to use it.

Having said that, it should be noted that with a 1tph frequency from Paddington there's going to be parts of London where the time saving going via Paddington isn't going to be that great, as such there will be some who will it to use it through choice.

The Okehampton route would attract passengers heading to Plymouth and Tavistock (again not lots but probably enough to consider investigation to see if it would change the business case), however that's not what this year is asking.

This thread is asking, if there was a need to, could there be 2tph between Yoevil and Salisbury? Basically the answer is not without additional infrastructure.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Following on from a response on the Okehampton thread, I’m wondering if you could run a regular 2tph service on the WofE Line between Salisbury and Yeovil Junction. Pre-Covid it was 3tp2h with every other Waterloo - Salisbury terminator continuing to Yeovil Pen Mill

This thread is asking, if there was a need to, could there be 2tph between Yoevil and Salisbury? Basically the answer is not without additional infrastructure.

Indeed the December 2018 timetable had the additional train every other hour between Salisbury and Yeovil and it proved that it couldn’t reliably be delivered on the existing infrastructure so has been proposed for removal.

This shows on a long single track route like the West of England it’s very dangerous to plan at 100% occupancy of crossing loops.

 

[30907]

Indeed the December 2018 timetable had the additional train every other hour between Salisbury and Yeovil and it proved that it couldn’t reliably be delivered on the existing infrastructure so has been proposed for removal.

I made the original comment, and I hadn't realised that it had already proved unworkable. I was assuming the necessary infrastructure work there and at the Devon end.

This shows on a long single track route like the West of England it’s very dangerous to plan at 100% occupancy of crossing loops.

Indeed it is.

 

[MarkyT]

Indeed the December 2018 timetable had the additional train every other hour between Salisbury and Yeovil and it proved that it couldn’t reliably be delivered on the existing infrastructure so has been proposed for removal.

I made the original comment, and I hadn't realised that it had already proved unworkable. I was assuming the necessary infrastructure work there and at the Devon end.

This shows on a long single track route like the West of England it’s very dangerous to plan at 100% occupancy of crossing loops.

Indeed it is.

West of Yeovil. the regular interval hourly service works tolerably well or certainly did originally when the long Axminster loop was first introduced. The normal passenger service didn't require use of Honiton or Chard Jn loops, so these were available for contingency in the event of late running. One Sunday evening, shortly after resignalling in SWT days, I was on a late-running down train (caused by earlier axle counter failure at Yeovil) which necessarily became the 'sacrificial' service and was held for fairly long periods at both Chard and Honiton in order that conflicting up trains could continue to run to time. I don't know if diagram layovers allow it today, but a remarkably quick turnround at Exeter that night resulted in an immediate on-time departure back towards Salisbury. So there is certainly some resilience for recovery with a few additional loops available. East of Yeovil is similar with regular trains usually passing at Tisbury, with it's awkward double stop (usually) in the down direction due to the loop being to the east of the single station platform, and Gillingham being the contingency loop for the hourly service for this section. Exeter trains are also usually timed to pass each other just west of Sherborne, about half-way along the Yeovil Jn-Templecombe double track section. This no doubt helps with the operation of the level crossing at Sherborne, usually requiring only one hourly road closure for both trains. Any additional regular trains added to the hourly pattern either east or west of Yeovil will require some infrastructure changes to place new loops in the correct positions for the planned service, and retain or add appropriate levels of contingency. West of Yeovil also needs to consider the occasional diversionary requirements for GWR services, which might need some additional intermediate flighting signals (or ETCS equivalent block section markers) on the single line so convoys of trains following in the same direction can run close together and pass opposing traffic in the long loops.

 

[AlastairFraser]

Won't work without redoubling anyway. They need to get at the very least Pinhoe to Yeovil done, then a local service can be run all the way up to Yeovil and it's double all the way to Templecombe.
Then you only have Templecombe to Wilton Jcn to do, excluding the Tisbury loop.
Once that is done, I would run 1tph through London to Exeter limited stop, with 2/3 Cl159s together, depending on whether the units can have ASDO fitted.
Then 2tph a hour Basingstoke to Yeovil and Yeovil to Exeter all stops, each with a single 159.

 

[supervc-10]

The service can get very broken west of Salisbury with the current setup. A progressive re-doubling across the various pinch points is essential to any kind of service uplift, but I can't see that happening any time soon. Thankfully having previously been double track, I don't think there would be too much infrastructure work to do if re-doubled with bridges etc. The track is still there in some places, although definitely wouldn't cope with a 159 travelling over it at speed!

Reopening the other platform at Tisbury wouldn't be a bad idea for a start- so frustrating sitting waiting in the loop for the up train to come through when you want to get off at Tisbury!