My idea: could Network Rail use class 180s?

[Townsend Hook]

With the recent news that Hull Trains have signed the deal for their AT300s, this means that their four class 180s will become available. I have been working on a theory that Network Rail could employ them in the infrastructure monitoring fleet. They could (in my mind) be used to supplement or partially replace the NMT (one set) and the PLPR fleet (currently four sets). In the five-car 180s there is more than enough space for the requisite recording equipment plus messing facilities. 180s can use HST, MU, and DMU differentials, which would aid pathing. They are significantly newer than all current rolling stock in the IM fleet. They are also 125mph capable, substantially higher than the speed than the PLPR trains can operate at (100mph with class 67/68, or 80mph with the more usual class 37). They would also have the safety benefit that the driver would be able to walk through the unit between cabs when reversing, instead of trackside as at present. Th On the negative side Mk2 LHCS will presumably be passed on more routes, and maintenance would likely have to take place away from the RTC (already the case for the NMT). Also, there would be less redundancy than the current sets, which invariably have two locos or power cars.

 

[swt class 450]

With the recent news that Hull Trains have signed the deal for their AT300s, this means that their four class 180s will become available. I have been working on a theory that Network Rail could employ them in the infrastructure monitoring fleet. They could (in my mind) be used to supplement or partially replace the NMT (one set) and the PLPR fleet (currently four sets). In the five-car 180s there is more than enough space for the requisite recording equipment plus messing facilities. 180s can use HST, MU, and DMU differentials, which would aid pathing. They are significantly newer than all current rolling stock in the IM fleet. They are also 125mph capable, substantially higher than the speed than the PLPR trains can operate at (100mph with class 67/68, or 80mph with the more usual class 37). They would also have the safety benefit that the driver would be able to walk through the unit between cabs when reversing, instead of trackside as at present. Th On the negative side Mk2 LHCS will presumably be passed on more routes, and maintenance would likely have to take place away from the RTC (already the case for the NMT). Also, there would be less redundancy than the current sets, which invariably have two locos or power cars.

It is unlikely to happen as from what i have heard i believe that all of the First Great Western and First Hull Trains 180s are all going to Arriva Grand Central.

 

[northwichcat]

It is unlikely to happen as from what i have heard i believe that all of the First Great Western and First Hull Trains 180s are all going to Arriva Grand Central.

Do you have a source for the HT ones going to GC? As far as I know GC secured the ones GWR are releasing but no announcement has been made about the HT ones going to GC or any other operator.

 

[The Planner]

Lots of operators will have on board monitoring that will feed info to NR eventually. NMT gets on the graph pretty early anyway. When it comes to things like the UTU then it records at 30mph. Would be ideal for a class 230 or 373......

 

[swt class 450]

Do you have a source for the HT ones going to GC? As far as I know GC secured the ones GWR are releasing but no announcement has been made about the HT ones going to GC or any other operator.

Someone that i know who works at GC told me this recently. I am not sure whether or not this is fully confirmed though. I will ask and see if i can find out any more information.

 

[D365]

It's going to take a very brave individual to suggest converting passenger stock at this time when we are facing a diesel shortage.

 

[CosherB]

With the recent news that Hull Trains have signed the deal for their AT300s, this means that their four class 180s will become available. I have been working on a theory that Network Rail could employ them in the infrastructure monitoring fleet. They could (in my mind) be used to supplement or partially replace the NMT (one set) and the PLPR fleet (currently four sets). In the five-car 180s there is more than enough space for the requisite recording equipment plus messing facilities. 180s can use HST, MU, and DMU differentials, which would aid pathing. They are significantly newer than all current rolling stock in the IM fleet. They are also 125mph capable, substantially higher than the speed than the PLPR trains can operate at (100mph with class 67/68, or 80mph with the more usual class 37). They would also have the safety benefit that the driver would be able to walk through the unit between cabs when reversing, instead of trackside as at present. Th On the negative side Mk2 LHCS will presumably be passed on more routes, and maintenance would likely have to take place away from the RTC (already the case for the NMT). Also, there would be less redundancy than the current sets, which invariably have two locos or power cars.

What a waste of a decent passenger train! Maybe their time for Network Rail will come, but not for a long, long time.

 

[swt_passenger]

It's going to take a very grave individual to suggest converting passenger stock at this time when we are facing a diesel shortage.

A railway undertaker perhaps?

 

[Townsend Hook]

What a waste of a decent passenger train! Maybe their time for Network Rail will come, but not for a long, long time.

When they're ready for nothing else but the scrapyard? If NR's test trains don't run, lines become non-compliant and passenger trains can't run, so there is a very real need for them to have reliable stock. Realistically NR will have to update much of it's fleet in the not-too-distant future (37s and Mk1/2s are not going to last forever), and the 180s would (in my opinion) be one of the best options potentially available to them.

 

[The Planner]

When they're ready for nothing else but the scrapyard? If NR's test trains don't run, lines become non-compliant and passenger trains can't run, so there is a very real need for them to have reliable stock. Realistically NR will have to update much of it's fleet in the not-too-distant future (37s and Mk1/2s are not going to last forever), and the 180s would (in my opinion) be one of the best options potentially available to them.

How many lines has that happened to so far?

 

[Townsend Hook]

How many lines has that happened to so far?

To the best of my knowledge it is happened at least once, although IIRC it was related to the ultrasonics trains rather than PLPR/track geometry, which I am suggesting as a use for 180s. I do know that lines have only been saved from being non-compliant by eleventh-hour unscheduled recovery runs on a number of occasions. Any unscheduled extra run will come at considerable cost to NR.

 

[CosherB]

When they're ready for nothing else but the scrapyard? If NR's test trains don't run, lines become non-compliant and passenger trains can't run, so there is a very real need for them to have reliable stock. Realistically NR will have to update much of it's fleet in the not-too-distant future (37s and Mk1/2s are not going to last forever), and the 180s would (in my opinion) be one of the best options potentially available to them.

Since when? :roll:

 

[DarloRich]

they put a speed on rather than close the line. It would have to be very bad to shut it completely to traffic.

Yes they could use 180's at some point in the future but they wont.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

When they're ready for nothing else but the scrapyard? If NR's test trains don't run, lines become non-compliant and passenger trains can't run, so there is a very real need for them to have reliable stock. Realistically NR will have to update much of it's fleet in the not-too-distant future (37s and Mk1/2s are not going to last forever), and the 180s would (in my opinion) be one of the best options potentially available to them.

other than parts wise ( due to age) the yellow carriages aren't the problem

 

[Clip]

What on earth is wrong with the 180s that you are happy to either scrap them or give them to NR after what- 15 years old?

 

[Townsend Hook]

they put a speed on rather than close the line. It would have to be very bad to shut it completely to traffic.

NR standards state that if a line has gone uninspected for a certain period of time (depending on track category and type of inspection) it must be closed to traffic. Nothing there about putting a speed on.

 

[DarloRich]

manual inspections in the interim will lead to a speed restriction if track quality falls - regardless 180's wont be used any time soon. I doubt they would ever be used.

 

[najaB]

With the recent news that Hull Trains have signed the deal for their AT300s, this means that their four class 180s will become available. I have been working on a theory that Network Rail could employ them in the infrastructure monitoring fleet

The answer to any thread that asks 'Could x use y stock?' is 'Yes.'

The question that needs answering is 'Is x using y stock the best use of that stock?'

I'm not convinced that using the 180s as infrastructure monitoring trains is the best use of a relatively modern fleet of 125mph capable DMUs.