My idea - A new, more compact Manchester Central.

[yorksrob]

Given that there is a lack of platform capacity in central Manchester from the West, and the capacity there is at Oxford Road uses up through capacity on the Pic-Deansgate route, why not use the existing redundant viaduct into the old Central station and build a new two platform station alongside the old trainshed (an area that previously had two platforms of the old station).

This could take Warrington line stoppers, and could even take an enhanced frequency service from Altricham and Chester (if trains shared the dedicated tram tracks to Altricham).

A footbridge could be provided to Deansgate station to link to the rest of the network.

The exhibition centre would remain unharmed, losing a slither of its loading area.

 

[Mitchell Hurd]

Given that there is a lack of platform capacity in central Manchester from the West, and the capacity there is at Oxford Road uses up through capacity on the Pic-Deansgate route, why not use the existing redundant viaduct into the old Central station and build a new two platform station alongside the old trainshed (an area that previously had two platforms of the old station).

This could take Warrington line stoppers, and could even take an enhanced frequency service from Altricham and Chester (if trains shared the dedicated tram tracks to Altricham).

A footbridge could be provided to Deansgate station to link to the rest of the network.

The exhibition centre would remain unharmed, losing a slither of its loading area.

Seems a good idea actually. But I've a feeling the work involved would mean too much disruption in a big city.

 

[30907]

Given that there is a lack of platform capacity in central Manchester from the West, and the capacity there is at Oxford Road uses up through capacity on the Pic-Deansgate route, why not use the existing redundant viaduct into the old Central station and build a new two platform station alongside the old trainshed (an area that previously had two platforms of the old station).

Which side of the trainshed - NE or SW?

This could take Warrington line stoppers, and could even take an enhanced frequency service from Altricham and Chester (if trains shared the dedicated tram tracks to Altricham).

How would they join the CLC line - put the tram on a new flyover at the Cornbrook end?

If you are going to spend big money, why not relocate the Metrolink lines further north (using the redundant viaduct) and put a terminus on their present site?

 

[yorksrob]

Which side of the trainshed - NE or SW?

How would they join the CLC line - put the tram on a new flyover at the Cornbrook end?

If you are going to spend big money, why not relocate the Metrolink lines further north (using the redundant viaduct) and put a terminus on their present site?

The South side of the old train shed.

I'm open to suggestions about how to untangle the lines at the West. My thinking is that both the redundant viaduct and the area alongside of the trainshed are North of the tram line.

 

[Dr Hoo]

The South side of the old train shed.

I'm open to suggestions about how to untangle the lines at the West. My thinking is that both the redundant viaduct and the area alongside of the trainshed are North of the tram line.

From a recent journey past the site I got the impression that major development/construction was coming or possibly even under way across the 'country end' of what used to be Manchester Central. I.e. the original building would be 'cut off'.

There have been many other proposals for further new blocks in the whole area. These can easily be found on the internet.

How does your idea fit with these developments?

 

[yorksrob]

From a recent journey past the site I got the impression that major development/construction was coming or possibly even under way across the 'country end' of what used to be Manchester Central. I.e. the original building would be 'cut off'.

There have been many other proposals for further new blocks in the whole area. These can easily be found on the internet.

How does your idea fit with these developments?

Assuming they don't impinge on the track bed or platform area required, they would be handy for the new station !

Most of my proposed route would be alongside the tram track, so unless they were planning to come right up to them it shouldn't be an issue.

 

[Dr Hoo]

Various plans show the Castlefield tram stop and so on in a 'Birmingham New Street-style' basement under a new block or multi-storey car park.

The entire area around the old Central train shed (besides other 'conserved' structures like the Midland Hotel, of course) seems to be compromised by fairly advanced building schemes.

This is all 'master plan' stuff. It is not clear that any worthwhile area or corridor has been protected for additional public transport use.

 

[Sir Felix Pole]

If you are advocating tram-trains for Altrincham / Chester would not the best use of the disused viaduct and former outside platform space at Central be additional Metrolink tracks? The Warrington line is also a candidate for tram-trains, particularly if NPR is built. The station would certainly be compact, for the Metrolink ramp, especially at the Midland Hotel end took a lot of the available space. A further snag is that the National Trust are proposing a 'high -line' style garden for the disused viaduct.

 

[geordieblue]

IIRC the disused viaduct is essentially unusable and would need to be replaced with a new structure if you wanted to add a new pair of tracks anyway.

 

[Purple Orange]

It needs to be pointed out that a skyscraper is currently under construction on the land that station throat once occupied. Manchester Central will never be a railway station again.

 

[Purple Orange]

Viadux

A complex mixed use scheme on the Former Bauer Millett Site including apartments and Grade A office space, sitting above a Grade II listed viaduct and bridging a Metrolink tram line.

www.simpsonhaugh.com

Further to the above posts, the link gives you a picture of what is currently being built on the site of the former approach to Manchester Central.

 

[Halifaxlad]

I had an idea about a possible new Manchester Central only the other day (although underground) whilst thinking about the best way to route HS2 through Manchester.

1) It is perfectly aligned for HS2 to carry on to Leeds although you would have to drop this parkway station that may not even get built, the route is approximately 5km shorter as well!

2) If carried onto Leeds its perfectly aligned for a Northern tunnel portal at Collyhurst, about another 3km which is still overall shorter than the route plan. Obviously this would suit a NPR route that would run adjacent to the M62.

I would build the station itself like the new Crossrail in London, also I would dig it out from below to mitigate vehicle lorrys that have been citied as one of many reasons not to build an underground station.





As for rail users, you could have an entrance off Windmill St opposite the Midland Hotel, when it comes to the station concourse you could have it underground directly below Manchester Central in a box then the building restored as a conference/exhibition centre once constructed, although personally I think it would make a great above ground concourse filled with shops and restraunts but that's just me.

Obviously I wouldn't build it as a terminus but in conjunction with NPR and send services to terminate at new terminus station in Leeds!

 

[LOL The Irony]

and could even take an enhanced frequency service from Altricham and Chester (if trains shared the dedicated tram tracks to Altricham).

There's an achilleas heel to this idea in the shape of Trafford Bar, unless you built a tunnel from Firswood to Cornbrook.

 

[Gathursty]

I think I have an idea for a new interchange station on HS2 given it seems to cross Ashley station at right angles.

 

[LOL The Irony]

I think I have an idea for a new interchange station on HS2 given it seems to cross Ashley station at right angles.

Shin Altrincham - Gateway to チェシャー

I can get my own coat
(Kanji says Cheshire)

 

[Gareth]

That's katakana, not kanji.

 

[daodao]

I had an idea about a possible new Manchester Central only the other day (although underground) whilst thinking about the best way to route HS2 through Manchester.

1) It is perfectly aligned for HS2 to carry on to Leeds although you would have to drop this parkway station that may not even get built, the route is approximately 5km shorter as well!

2) If carried onto Leeds its perfectly aligned for a Northern tunnel portal at Collyhurst, about another 3km which is still overall shorter than the route plan. Obviously this would suit a NPR route that would run adjacent to the M62.

I would build the station itself like the new Crossrail in London, also I would dig it out from below to mitigate vehicle lorrys that have been citied as one of many reasons not to build an underground station.

View attachment 114685

View attachment 114686

As for rail users, you could have an entrance off Windmill St opposite the Midland Hotel, when it comes to the station concourse you could have it underground directly below Manchester Central in a box then the building restored as a conference/exhibition centre once constructed, although personally I think it would make a great above ground concourse filled with shops and restraunts but that's just me.

Obviously I wouldn't build it as a terminus but in conjunction with NPR and send services to terminate at new terminus station in Leeds!

As for the yellow route, N.I.M.B.Y.

As for re-opening M/c Central, that is daft, unnecessary and not feasible. What is needed in central Manchester is to route as many trains as possible away from the Castlefield line to run to/via Victoria, including ALL trains from Southport.

 

[yorksrob]

Various plans show the Castlefield tram stop and so on in a 'Birmingham New Street-style' basement under a new block or multi-storey car park.

The entire area around the old Central train shed (besides other 'conserved' structures like the Midland Hotel, of course) seems to be compromised by fairly advanced building schemes.

This is all 'master plan' stuff. It is not clear that any worthwhile area or corridor has been protected for additional public transport use.

If you are advocating tram-trains for Altrincham / Chester would not the best use of the disused viaduct and former outside platform space at Central be additional Metrolink tracks? The Warrington line is also a candidate for tram-trains, particularly if NPR is built. The station would certainly be compact, for the Metrolink ramp, especially at the Midland Hotel end took a lot of the available space. A further snag is that the National Trust are proposing a 'high -line' style garden for the disused viaduct.

I suppose that of you're going to put the tram tracks in a box, you could put some railway lines alongside it - a bit like Barbican !

With regard to the section between Manchester and Altrincham, isn't it the case that it was fully signalled until recently, so more like a railway ?

IIRC the disused viaduct is essentially unusable and would need to be replaced with a new structure if you wanted to add a new pair of tracks anyway.

That is bad news. Surely refurbishment would be possible !

 

[Mcr Warrior]

IIRC the disused viaduct is essentially unusable and would need to be replaced with a new structure if you wanted to add a new pair of tracks anyway.

That is bad news. Surely refurbishment would be possible !

Have to say that it does seem as if the disused viaduct from Cornbrook towards Manchester Central hasn't had any maintenance whatsoever since the one-time latter station closed in the late 1960's.

 

[HSTEd]

Although the viaduct would have to be pulled down as part of any such project - at the end of the day we can hardly just leave it there until it falls over on someone - so the cost of removing it shouldn't really be held against a project to use the space.

 

[Sir Felix Pole]

The 1892 Castlefield Viaduct is Grade II listed - work has already started on the 'high-line' style garden.

Castlefield

MC Construction has begun converting the 125-year-old abandoned bridge into a public green space for the National Trust.

The first phase of the project involves transforming half of the 330-metre Castlefield Viaduct into a park and heritage attraction.

The scheme will see the grade two-listed Manchester bridge brought back into use after more than 50 years, while simultaneously addressing the city centre’s lack of green space.

“The project really has a compelling draw for people,” said Duncan Laird, head of urban places at the National Trust.

“They can come up here and really experience nature on the doorstep, but also learn about the heritage and history of a key bit of Manchester.”

 

[Purple Orange]

Just another reminder that nether Manchester Central, nor the disused viaduct can be brought back in to use for rail. A skyscraper is currently being built right where the platforms started outside the station and the viaduct is being turned in to a National Trust park.

 

[Howardh]

If London can have a new tunnel for Crossrail, amongst all those it already had, with all the billions Manchester (won't) get from any levelling up fund (ha) we could tunnel from Salford Crescent to Piccadilly to free up the corridor and link to HS2.
That would free up capacity from Warrington/Merseyside etc.
There's more chance of Horwich RMI winning the World Cup though.

 

[AlastairFraser]

Given that there is a lack of platform capacity in central Manchester from the West, and the capacity there is at Oxford Road uses up through capacity on the Pic-Deansgate route, why not use the existing redundant viaduct into the old Central station and build a new two platform station alongside the old trainshed (an area that previously had two platforms of the old station).

This could take Warrington line stoppers, and could even take an enhanced frequency service from Altricham and Chester (if trains shared the dedicated tram tracks to Altricham).

A footbridge could be provided to Deansgate station to link to the rest of the network.

The exhibition centre would remain unharmed, losing a slither of its loading area.

That's a bit of a waste to invest it because a tram train tunnel would be the best solution for Warrington Central stoppers eventually, and it doesn't really solve much of the junction conflict issues at Deansgate. But, as a temporary solution, not a bad idea.

 

[Wolfie]

If London can have a new tunnel for Crossrail, amongst all those it already had, with all the billions Manchester (won't) get from any levelling up fund (ha) we could tunnel from Salford Crescent to Piccadilly to free up the corridor and link to HS2.
That would free up capacity from Warrington/Merseyside etc.
There's more chance of Horwich RMI winning the World Cup though.

Andy Burnham wrote an article in the Evening Standard tonight. He mentioned that he was involved in Crossrail as a Treasury Minister and boasts that he ensured that London made a significant contribution. He then seeks support from London/the South East for a Crossrail of the North. What was notably absent was any desire/commitment for Manchester to make a significant contribution......

London should pay for London and also everyone else? Methinks not......

 

[LittleAH]

Andy Burnham wrote an article in the Evening Standard tonight. He mentioned that he was involved in Crossrail as a Treasury Minister and boasts that he ensured that London made a significant contribution. He then seeks support from London/the South East for a Crossrail of the North. What was notably absent was any desire/commitment for Manchester to make a significant contribution......

London should pay for London and also everyone else? Methinks not......

Given the inequality of wealth in this country, which has been concentrated in London and the South East for far too long, then using that arugment - nowhere else in the country will see improvements.

Social mobility, employment and the economy can be driven by new transport infrastructure. So if it takes central government and London to pay for better transport links elsewhere - so be it.

 

[yorksrob]

That's a bit of a waste to invest it because a tram train tunnel would be the best solution for Warrington Central stoppers eventually, and it doesn't really solve much of the junction conflict issues at Deansgate. But, as a temporary solution, not a bad idea.

I think the benefit is that it avoids a lot of the Castlefield congestion because the viaduct goes over it.

 

[Wolfie]

Given the inequality of wealth in this country, which has been concentrated in London and the South East for far too long, then using that arugment - nowhere else in the country will see improvements.

Social mobility, employment and the economy can be driven by new transport infrastructure. So if it takes central government and London to pay for better transport links elsewhere - so be it.

Re your last para l for one am not prepared to pay for others to have a free ride. I'm not the only one which is why the Blue Wall is in real trouble.....

 

[Doctor Fegg]

A large part of the reason the "Blue Wall" is in trouble is precisely because all economic development is concentrated in the South-East. Ask the people of South Oxfordshire or Vale of White Horse what they think about their Local Plans with massive house-building programmes. (Or just look at the election results where the Conservative councils were voted out.)

Supporting the north is not necessarily a vote-loser in the south.

 

[Howardh]

Re your last para l for one am not prepared to pay for others to have a free ride. I'm not the only one which is why the Blue Wall is in real trouble.....

Makes me wonder how much money from the EU would have been marked up for public infrastructure in the deprived parts of the north, that now won't be received?