My District Line ideas

[waterboo]

Considering that the District line and the Metropolitan line are now running on the same rolling stock, would it not be practical to operate district line trains to Uxbridge, and allow the Piccadilly line to terminate short at Ealing Broadway??

However, as a second proposal, could it be seen that re-boring the tunnels through heathrow to S-Stock size be a viable solution to solving overcrowing at Heathrow. Thus, people could board larger trains at heathrow??


What are your opinions guys??

 

[David Goddard]

Any service changes which increase through workings to more destinations have to be a good thing, and yes letting District and Piccadilly trains to both Uxbridge and Ealing Broadway would do just that.

On the second point, this is a good idea, and again enables more through services, such as East End to Heathrow but the civils would be huge and what's more Crossrail will pick this flow up in a few years time anyway.
Remember that capacity on the Underground is not just limited to the size of the train, but to the ability of the stations to handle passengers safely. (hence the reason Covent Garden has had restrictions on Saturday afternoons for many years now)

 

[simple simon]

Alas, I read something about S Stock being banned from travelling between Ealing Common and Rayners Lane.

Something about being out of gauge!

Also its important to remember the different train lengths - S7 and S8.

Simon

 

[anme]

Considering that the District line and the Metropolitan line are now running on the same rolling stock, would it not be practical to operate district line trains to Uxbridge, and allow the Piccadilly line to terminate short at Ealing Broadway??

However, as a second proposal, could it be seen that re-boring the tunnels through heathrow to S-Stock size be a viable solution to solving overcrowing at Heathrow. Thus, people could board larger trains at heathrow??

Is there are overcrowding on the Piccadilly line at Heathrow? I've passed though many times and I've never experienced overcrowding there. Maybe it happens at times I don't go there?

 

[jopsuk]

If you were being ambitious with this, then going four-track, grade separated from Acton Town to Hanger Lane Junction would be a start, fully separating the tube-stock Picadilly and S-Stock District.

Then gauge-clear the whole section to Uxbridge for S-Stock. Rebuild all the platforms to be level-boarding, and do the same for the Picadilly along the shared route.

Silly level? Rather than use the existing platforms at Ealing Broadway, put the Picadilly into a tunnel to West Ealing and turn the Greenford branch over to it

 

[hassaanhc]

Considering that the District line and the Metropolitan line are now running on the same rolling stock, would it not be practical to operate district line trains to Uxbridge, and allow the Piccadilly line to terminate short at Ealing Broadway??

However, as a second proposal, could it be seen that re-boring the tunnels through heathrow to S-Stock size be a viable solution to solving overcrowing at Heathrow. Thus, people could board larger trains at heathrow??


What are your opinions guys??

Is there are overcrowding on the Piccadilly line at Heathrow? I've passed though many times and I've never experienced overcrowding there. Maybe it happens at times I don't go there?

Unlikely to be at Heathrow itself but I have a feeling he mentioned overcrowding on that branch. Trains are busy for much of the day in the Westbound direction until Hounslow East.
Re-boring the tunnel would be hugely disruptive as it is built at sub-surface depth, so you'd have to dig downwards.

 

[edwin_m]

Much of Central London is just as fast and a lot cheaper from Heathrow via the Piccadilly than via HEx, with the added bonus of avoiding a change at Paddington. However Crossrail will provide a still faster journey to many of these areas so should reduce the number of Heathrow passengers using the Piccadilly. This in turn will free up space on the trains for journeys to/from intermediate stations.

It would probably be cheaper and certainly less disruptive risky to bore a new tunnel than try to enlarge the existing one. Imagine the chaos if it went wrong and a runway had to be closed for weeks or months.

 

[fairysdad]

Alas, I read something about S Stock being banned from travelling between Ealing Common and Rayners Lane.

Something about being out of gauge!

Also its important to remember the different train lengths - S7 and S8.

Simon

While the gauge issue could be a problem (although D-Stock is able to go up there, just with caution under the bridges IIRC, I'm not sure what the size difference is between D and S stocks), there's not a problem with the different length trains, after all, stations between Great Portland Street and Aldgate currently host both S7 (H&C/Circ) and S8 (Met) trains.

 

[Dstock7080]

D Stock have longer cars than S Stock but S Stock is wider at the widest part.
The issue between Hanger Lane junction and Rayners Lane is lack of signal immunisation.

 

[fairysdad]

D Stock have longer cars than S Stock but S Stock is wider at the widest part.
The issue between Hanger Lane junction and Rayners Lane is lack of signal immunisation.

Forgive me for asking, but what's signal immunisation?

Also, there have been incidents of District trains taking the 'wrong stick' at Hanger Lane Jn and heading up the Piccadilly Line to turn round at South Harrow - is this possible with S Stock? It was the knowledge of the limited bridge clearance that I was saying I wasn't sure about the difference between the gauge between D and S Stocks, and District Dave implied that it was a height issue with D stock on that stretch of line; a quick Google Image search seems to indicate that D is slightly taller than S, so would it have the same issue?

 

[adrock1976]

I agree with the suggestion of running the District up to Rayners Lane, maybe Uxbridge. After all, the section of the route from Acton to Rayners Lane was constructed by the Metropolitan District Railway!

Furthermore, a suggestion I have is to extend the District from Wimbledon to Sutton. This was the original intention of the Wimbledon & Sutton Railway, as both the London & South Western Railway and the London, Brighton, & South Coast Railway were not at all enthusiastic about the W & SR, due to concerns about affecting revenue etc.

This suggestion would allow the present Thameslink services to be diverted elsewhere, maybe Uckfield/East Grinstead as an example, and would improve the frequency along the W & SR. Haydons Road and Tooting could be used for an extended Croydon Tramlink.

In peace

Adam

 

[Feathers44]

Furthermore, a suggestion I have is to extend the District from Wimbledon to Sutton. This was the original intention of the Wimbledon & Sutton Railway, as both the London & South Western Railway and the London, Brighton, & South Coast Railway were not at all enthusiastic about the W & SR, due to concerns about affecting revenue etc.

I think it would be a tall order to get the Duistrict under the mainlain and onto the loop starting from the current position. I know this was the intent of the original plans but surely that ship sailed decades ago?

Also, where would you put the S Stock at Sutton? I think it would be a bit of a stretch to share the platforms with the through Southern services to Epsom, including all of the reversing etc implied with terminating the District line there.

 

[Dstock7080]

Forgive me for asking, but what's signal immunisation?

Also, there have been incidents of District trains taking the 'wrong stick' at Hanger Lane Jn and heading up the Piccadilly Line to turn round at South Harrow - is this possible with S Stock? It was the knowledge of the limited bridge clearance that I was saying I wasn't sure about the difference between the gauge between D and S Stocks, and District Dave implied that it was a height issue with D stock on that stretch of line; a quick Google Image search seems to indicate that D is slightly taller than S, so would it have the same issue?

Signalling equipment needs to be immunised as S Stock generate new harmonics which would interfere with existing non-modified circuitry. Similar restrictions prevent 1973 Tube Stock from venturing away from the Piccadilly, 2009 Stock away from the Victoria etc.

Yes, there are/have been incidents of District trains taking the 'wrong stick' and D Stock are able to proceed with the speed restrictions under bridges already mentioned. S Stock are not able to proceed and special arrangements will be made to get the train back.

With regard to height from rail to roof (tare weight):
A = 3683mm
C = 3687mm
D = 3620mm
S = 3686mm.

 

[edwin_m]

I agree with the suggestion of running the District up to Rayners Lane, maybe Uxbridge. After all, the section of the route from Acton to Rayners Lane was constructed by the Metropolitan District Railway!

Running to Uxbridge instead of the Piccadilly would also mean all stock on this section had the same entrance height, so the platforms could be raised to allow level boarding onto the trains. At the moment they must be a compromise between Tube and surface stock entrance heights, and I believe if the Piccadilly ever becomes automatically driven the trains would have to carry a driver west of Rayners Lane for this reason.

How difficult would it be to raise the offending structure(s) (or lower the track) on the section in between?