My CrossCountry Idea

[freetoview33]

I have for many years been working on and off for ideas for all areas of the rail network and the idea I have "completed" first is CrossCountry. So here goes.

Brand new 7 car Class 802's for all routes

Replace the current network with the following hourly routes.

Service 1: Liverpool Lime Street - Liverpool South Parkway - Runcorn - Crewe - Stafford - Wolverhampton - Smethwick Galton Bridge - Birmingham New Street - Bromsgrove - Worcestershire Parkway - Cheltenham Spa - Bristol Parkway - Newport - Cardiff Central

(Partly replacing the CrossCountry service from Cardiff - Birmingham and the London Northwestern Railway service from Birmingham - Liverpool, would link in with other changes to fill gaps.)

Service 2: Liverpool Lime Street - Liverpool South Parkway - Runcorn - Crewe - Stafford - Wolverhampton - Smethwick Galton Bridge - Birmingham New Street - Birmingham International - Coventry - Rugby - Rugby Parkway - Northampton - Bedford - Sandy - Cambridge

(Using a new line between Northampton and Bedford, providing a new Cambridge Link)

Service 3: Manchester Piccadilly - Stockport - Macclesfield - Stoke-on-Trent - Stafford - Wolverhampton - Smethwick Galton Bridge - Birmingham New Street - Bromsgrove - Worcestershire Parkway - Cheltenham Spa - Bristol Parkway - Bristol Temple Meads - Taunton - Tiverton Parkway - Exeter St Davids (With 2hrly extensions to Plymouth Via Dawlish - Newton Abbot, Totnes and Ivybridge [every 4 hours only].)

Service 4: Manchester Piccadilly - Stockport - Macclesfield - Stoke-on-Trent - Stafford - Wolverhampton - Smethwick Galton Bridge - Birmingham New Street - Coventry - Leamington Spa - Banbury - Oxford - Reading - Basingstoke - Winchester - Southampton Airport - Southampton Central (With 2hrly extensions to Bournemouth Via Brockhurst and Christchurch)

Service 5: Newcastle Central - Durham - Darlington - York - Leeds - Meadowhall - Sheffield - Chesterfield - Derby - Burton-on-Trent - Tamworth - Birmingham New Street - Bromsgrove - Worcestershire Parkway - Cheltenham Spa - Bristol Parkway - Bristol Temple Meads - Taunton - Tiverton Parkway - Exeter St Davids (With 2hrly extensions to Paignton Via Dawlish, Newton Abbot and Torquay Central [Renamed from Torre].)

Service 6: Newcastle Central - Durham - Darlington - York - Leeds - Wakefield Westgate - Sheffield - Chesterfield - Derby - Burton-on-Trent - Tamworth - Birmingham New Street - Birmingham International - Coventry - Rugby - Rugby Parkway - Northampton - Bedford - Sandy - Cambridge

Service 7: Lincoln Central - Newark Castle - Nottingham - Castle Donington - Burton-on-Trent - Tamworth - Wilnecote - Birmingham New Street - Bromsgrove - Worcestershire Parkway - Cheltenham Spa - Bristol Parkway - Newport - Cardiff Central (Providing a much improved service to Lincoln and a new link to/from Birmingham and a new station at Castle Donington.

Service 8: Lincoln Central - Newark Castle - Nottingham - Castle Donington - Burton-on-Trent - Tamworth - Wilnecote - Birmingham New Street - Coventry - Leamington Spa - Banbury - Oxford - Reading - Basingstoke - Winchester - Southampton Airport - Southampton Central (With 2hrly extensions to Bournemouth Via Brockhurst and Christchurch)

This would link in with other changes on other routes, that I will publish soon.

 

[NoMorePacers]

Why does Lincoln need so many XC services?

At least you’ve got originality, I will say.

 

[VT 390]

Should Smethwick Galton Bridge have so many stops? If they are all going to stop between Birmingham and Wolverhampton should some call at Sandwell & Dudley instead?

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

I have for many years been working on and off for ideas for all areas of the rail network and the idea I have "completed" first is CrossCountry. So here goes.

Brand new 7 car Class 802's for all routes

Replace the current network with the following hourly routes.

Service 1: Liverpool Lime Street - Liverpool South Parkway - Runcorn - Crewe - Stafford - Wolverhampton - Smethwick Galton Bridge - Birmingham New Street - Bromsgrove - Worcestershire Parkway - Cheltenham Spa - Bristol Parkway - Newport - Cardiff Central

(Partly replacing the CrossCountry service from Cardiff - Birmingham and the London Northwestern Railway service from Birmingham - Liverpool, would link in with other changes to fill gaps.)

Service 2: Liverpool Lime Street - Liverpool South Parkway - Runcorn - Crewe - Stafford - Wolverhampton - Smethwick Galton Bridge - Birmingham New Street - Birmingham International - Coventry - Rugby - Rugby Parkway - Northampton - Bedford - Sandy - Cambridge

(Using a new line between Northampton and Bedford, providing a new Cambridge Link)

Service 3: Manchester Piccadilly - Stockport - Macclesfield - Stoke-on-Trent - Stafford - Wolverhampton - Smethwick Galton Bridge - Birmingham New Street - Bromsgrove - Worcestershire Parkway - Cheltenham Spa - Bristol Parkway - Bristol Temple Meads - Taunton - Tiverton Parkway - Exeter St Davids (With 2hrly extensions to Plymouth Via Dawlish - Newton Abbot, Totnes and Ivybridge [every 4 hours only].)

Service 4: Manchester Piccadilly - Stockport - Macclesfield - Stoke-on-Trent - Stafford - Wolverhampton - Smethwick Galton Bridge - Birmingham New Street - Coventry - Leamington Spa - Banbury - Oxford - Reading - Basingstoke - Winchester - Southampton Airport - Southampton Central (With 2hrly extensions to Bournemouth Via Brockhurst and Christchurch)

Service 5: Newcastle Central - Durham - Darlington - York - Leeds - Wakefield Westgate - Sheffield - Chesterfield - Derby - Burton-on-Trent - Tamworth - Birmingham New Street - Bromsgrove - Worcestershire Parkway - Cheltenham Spa - Bristol Parkway - Bristol Temple Meads - Taunton - Tiverton Parkway - Exeter St Davids (With 2hrly extensions to Paignton Via Dawlish, Newton Abbot and Torquay Central [Renamed from Torre].)

Service 6: Newcastle Central - Durham - Darlington - York - Leeds - Wakefield Westgate - Sheffield - Chesterfield - Derby - Burton-on-Trent - Tamworth - Birmingham New Street - Birmingham International - Coventry - Rugby - Rugby Parkway - Northampton - Bedford - Sandy - Cambridge

Service 7: Lincoln Central - Newark Castle - Nottingham - Castle Donington - Burton-on-Trent - Tamworth - Wilnecote - Birmingham New Street - Bromsgrove - Worcestershire Parkway - Cheltenham Spa - Bristol Parkway - Newport - Cardiff Central (Providing a much improved service to Lincoln and a new link to/from Birmingham and a new station at Castle Donington.

Service 8: Lincoln Central - Newark Castle - Nottingham - Castle Donington - Burton-on-Trent - Tamworth - Wilnecote - Birmingham New Street - Coventry - Leamington Spa - Banbury - Oxford - Reading - Basingstoke - Winchester - Southampton Airport - Southampton Central (With 2hrly extensions to Bournemouth Via Brockhurst and Christchurch)

This would link in with other changes on other routes, that I will publish soon.

I would cut the following stops (in bold). Also Birmingham-Liverpool is part of LNWR's longer London-Liverpool service and I'd keep that.

To add

• Could you extend one Cambridge service to Norwich and provide a direct service between Birmingham and Norwich.
• divert one Newcastle service to Hull and extend one to Glasgow Central every two hours and Aberdeen every two hours via Newcastle.

Number of issues:

• Capacity across the Newark Crossing only room for one train per hour.
• Capacity full at New Street

What about 9-car or 2x5-car 802's then you could have splitting of services

 

[PTR 444]

Why does Bournemouth have to lose its hourly service to the Midlands and north? Could you not at least do something good for Dorset like extending XC west to Poole or even Weymouth?

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

Why does Bournemouth have to lose its hourly service to the Midlands and north? Could you not at least do something good for Dorset like extending XC west to Poole or even Weymouth?

Would capacity allow that

 

[PTR 444]

Would capacity allow that

Poole would seem reasonable for now. Beyond there would require a significant amount of upgrades before extra trains can run to Weymouth.

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

Poole would seem reasonable for now. Beyond there would require a significant amount of upgrades before extra trains can run to Weymouth.

they used to run to Poole.

In an ideal world:

Service 1: Liverpool Lime Street - Runcorn - Crewe - Stafford - Wolverhampton - Birmingham New Street - Bromsgrove - Worcestershire Parkway - Cheltenham Spa - Bristol Parkway - Newport - Cardiff Central

(Partly replacing the CrossCountry service from Cardiff - Birmingham and the London Northwestern Railway service from Birmingham - Liverpool, would link in with other changes to fill gaps.)

Service 2: Liverpool Lime Street - Runcorn - Crewe - Stafford - Wolverhampton - Birmingham New Street - Birmingham International - Coventry - Rugby - Rugby Parkway - Northampton - Bedford - Sandy - Cambridge - Ely - Norwich

(Using a new line between Northampton and Bedford, providing a new Cambridge Link)

Service 3: Manchester Piccadilly - Stockport - Macclesfield - Stoke-on-Trent - Stafford - Wolverhampton - Smethwick Galton Bridge - Birmingham New Street - Worcestershire Parkway - Cheltenham Spa - Bristol Parkway - Bristol Temple Meads - Taunton - Tiverton Parkway - Exeter St Davids (With 2hrly extensions to Plymouth Via Dawlish - Newton Abbot, Totnes and Ivybridge [every 4 hours only].)

Service 4: Manchester Piccadilly - Stockport - Macclesfield - Stoke-on-Trent - Stafford - Wolverhampton - Smethwick Galton Bridge - Birmingham New Street - Coventry - Leamington Spa - Banbury - Oxford - Reading - Basingstoke - Winchester - Southampton Airport - Southampton Central - Brockenhurst - Bournemouth - Poole

Service 5: Glasgow Central - Motherwell - Haymarket - Edinburgh Waverley - Berwick-upon-Tweed - Newcastle Central - Durham - Darlington - York - Leeds - Wakefield Westgate - Sheffield - Chesterfield - Derby - Burton-on-Trent - Tamworth - Birmingham New Street - Bromsgrove - Worcestershire Parkway - Cheltenham Spa - Bristol Parkway - Bristol Temple Meads - Taunton - Tiverton Parkway - Exeter St Davids (With 2hrly extensions to Paignton Via Dawlish, Newton Abbot and Torquay Central [Renamed from Torre].)

Service 6: Newcastle Central - Durham - Darlington - York - Leeds - Wakefield Westgate - Sheffield - Chesterfield - Derby - Burton-on-Trent - Tamworth - Birmingham New Street - Birmingham International - Coventry - Rugby - Northampton - Bedford - Sandy - Cambridge

Service 7: Lincoln Central - Newark Castle - Nottingham - Castle Donington - Burton-on-Trent - Tamworth - Wilnecote - Birmingham New Street - Bromsgrove - Worcestershire Parkway - Cheltenham Spa - Bristol Parkway - Newport - Cardiff Central (Providing a much improved service to Lincoln and a new link to/from Birmingham and a new station at Castle Donington.

Service 8: Nottingham - Burton-on-Trent - Tamworth - Birmingham New Street - Coventry - Leamington Spa - Banbury - Oxford - Reading - Guildford - Gatwick Airport - Brighton

 

[Jozhua]

I have for many years been working on and off for ideas for all areas of the rail network and the idea I have "completed" first is CrossCountry. So here goes.

Brand new 7 car Class 802's for all routes

Replace the current network with the following hourly routes.

Service 1: Liverpool Lime Street - Liverpool South Parkway - Runcorn - Crewe - Stafford - Wolverhampton - Smethwick Galton Bridge - Birmingham New Street - Bromsgrove - Worcestershire Parkway - Cheltenham Spa - Bristol Parkway - Newport - Cardiff Central

(Partly replacing the CrossCountry service from Cardiff - Birmingham and the London Northwestern Railway service from Birmingham - Liverpool, would link in with other changes to fill gaps.)

Service 2: Liverpool Lime Street - Liverpool South Parkway - Runcorn - Crewe - Stafford - Wolverhampton - Smethwick Galton Bridge - Birmingham New Street - Birmingham International - Coventry - Rugby - Rugby Parkway - Northampton - Bedford - Sandy - Cambridge

(Using a new line between Northampton and Bedford, providing a new Cambridge Link)

Service 3: Manchester Piccadilly - Stockport - Macclesfield - Stoke-on-Trent - Stafford - Wolverhampton - Smethwick Galton Bridge - Birmingham New Street - Bromsgrove - Worcestershire Parkway - Cheltenham Spa - Bristol Parkway - Bristol Temple Meads - Taunton - Tiverton Parkway - Exeter St Davids (With 2hrly extensions to Plymouth Via Dawlish - Newton Abbot, Totnes and Ivybridge [every 4 hours only].)

Service 4: Manchester Piccadilly - Stockport - Macclesfield - Stoke-on-Trent - Stafford - Wolverhampton - Smethwick Galton Bridge - Birmingham New Street - Coventry - Leamington Spa - Banbury - Oxford - Reading - Basingstoke - Winchester - Southampton Airport - Southampton Central (With 2hrly extensions to Bournemouth Via Brockhurst and Christchurch)

Service 5: Newcastle Central - Durham - Darlington - York - Leeds - Wakefield Westgate - Sheffield - Chesterfield - Derby - Burton-on-Trent - Tamworth - Birmingham New Street - Bromsgrove - Worcestershire Parkway - Cheltenham Spa - Bristol Parkway - Bristol Temple Meads - Taunton - Tiverton Parkway - Exeter St Davids (With 2hrly extensions to Paignton Via Dawlish, Newton Abbot and Torquay Central [Renamed from Torre].)

Service 6: Newcastle Central - Durham - Darlington - York - Leeds - Wakefield Westgate - Sheffield - Chesterfield - Derby - Burton-on-Trent - Tamworth - Birmingham New Street - Birmingham International - Coventry - Rugby - Rugby Parkway - Northampton - Bedford - Sandy - Cambridge

Service 7: Lincoln Central - Newark Castle - Nottingham - Castle Donington - Burton-on-Trent - Tamworth - Wilnecote - Birmingham New Street - Bromsgrove - Worcestershire Parkway - Cheltenham Spa - Bristol Parkway - Newport - Cardiff Central (Providing a much improved service to Lincoln and a new link to/from Birmingham and a new station at Castle Donington.

Service 8: Lincoln Central - Newark Castle - Nottingham - Castle Donington - Burton-on-Trent - Tamworth - Wilnecote - Birmingham New Street - Coventry - Leamington Spa - Banbury - Oxford - Reading - Basingstoke - Winchester - Southampton Airport - Southampton Central (With 2hrly extensions to Bournemouth Via Brockhurst and Christchurch)

This would link in with other changes on other routes, that I will publish soon.

Derby/Nottingham loses two trains between them per hour. Derby also loses two Burton/Birmingham New St trains per hour.

Other towns like Beeston and Long Eaton, which are both fairly sizeable, lose 1tph to Derby/Nottingham and their connections to Burton/Birmingham New St entirely.

 

[elliotjelliot]

I have for many years been working on and off for ideas for all areas of the rail network and the idea I have "completed" first is CrossCountry. So here goes.

Brand new 7 car Class 802's for all routes

Replace the current network with the following hourly routes.

Service 1: Liverpool Lime Street - Liverpool South Parkway - Runcorn - Crewe - Stafford - Wolverhampton - Smethwick Galton Bridge - Birmingham New Street - Bromsgrove - Worcestershire Parkway - Cheltenham Spa - Bristol Parkway - Newport - Cardiff Central

(Partly replacing the CrossCountry service from Cardiff - Birmingham and the London Northwestern Railway service from Birmingham - Liverpool, would link in with other changes to fill gaps.)

Service 2: Liverpool Lime Street - Liverpool South Parkway - Runcorn - Crewe - Stafford - Wolverhampton - Smethwick Galton Bridge - Birmingham New Street - Birmingham International - Coventry - Rugby - Rugby Parkway - Northampton - Bedford - Sandy - Cambridge

(Using a new line between Northampton and Bedford, providing a new Cambridge Link)

Service 3: Manchester Piccadilly - Stockport - Macclesfield - Stoke-on-Trent - Stafford - Wolverhampton - Smethwick Galton Bridge - Birmingham New Street - Bromsgrove - Worcestershire Parkway - Cheltenham Spa - Bristol Parkway - Bristol Temple Meads - Taunton - Tiverton Parkway - Exeter St Davids (With 2hrly extensions to Plymouth Via Dawlish - Newton Abbot, Totnes and Ivybridge [every 4 hours only].)

Service 4: Manchester Piccadilly - Stockport - Macclesfield - Stoke-on-Trent - Stafford - Wolverhampton - Smethwick Galton Bridge - Birmingham New Street - Coventry - Leamington Spa - Banbury - Oxford - Reading - Basingstoke - Winchester - Southampton Airport - Southampton Central (With 2hrly extensions to Bournemouth Via Brockhurst and Christchurch)

Service 5: Newcastle Central - Durham - Darlington - York - Leeds - Wakefield Westgate - Sheffield - Chesterfield - Derby - Burton-on-Trent - Tamworth - Birmingham New Street - Bromsgrove - Worcestershire Parkway - Cheltenham Spa - Bristol Parkway - Bristol Temple Meads - Taunton - Tiverton Parkway - Exeter St Davids (With 2hrly extensions to Paignton Via Dawlish, Newton Abbot and Torquay Central [Renamed from Torre].)

Service 6: Newcastle Central - Durham - Darlington - York - Leeds - Wakefield Westgate - Sheffield - Chesterfield - Derby - Burton-on-Trent - Tamworth - Birmingham New Street - Birmingham International - Coventry - Rugby - Rugby Parkway - Northampton - Bedford - Sandy - Cambridge

Service 7: Lincoln Central - Newark Castle - Nottingham - Castle Donington - Burton-on-Trent - Tamworth - Wilnecote - Birmingham New Street - Bromsgrove - Worcestershire Parkway - Cheltenham Spa - Bristol Parkway - Newport - Cardiff Central (Providing a much improved service to Lincoln and a new link to/from Birmingham and a new station at Castle Donington.

Service 8: Lincoln Central - Newark Castle - Nottingham - Castle Donington - Burton-on-Trent - Tamworth - Wilnecote - Birmingham New Street - Coventry - Leamington Spa - Banbury - Oxford - Reading - Basingstoke - Winchester - Southampton Airport - Southampton Central (With 2hrly extensions to Bournemouth Via Brockhurst and Christchurch)

This would link in with other changes on other routes, that I will publish soon.

I have to credit the creativity here. I hope you and others post more ideas like this because even if people don't agree, the debate around such proposals is a very interesting one to have.

I think this does very well to spread the reaches of the XC network, making a truly cross-country rail service. However, I am curious to know why you haven't included any services to Scotland? I know that there is a currently an enhancement of service levels to Scotland up the ECML, but the traditional mainlines would not be able to meet the demand from the midlands and the southwest without XC.

Furthermore, I would like to make the suggestion that the Newcastle - Cambridge service could extend to Stansted Airport, either hourly or just every 2 hours. This not only retains the Birmingham-Stansted service already in place, but also targets a whole new market north of Birmingham which I believe would be welcomed and very lucrative.

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

I have to credit the creativity here. I hope you and others post more ideas like this because even if people don't agree, the debate around such proposals is a very interesting one to have.

I think this does very well to spread the reaches of the XC network, making a truly cross-country rail service. However, I am curious to know why you haven't included any services to Scotland? I know that there is a currently an enhancement of service levels to Scotland up the ECML, but the traditional mainlines would not be able to meet the demand from the midlands and the southwest without XC.

Furthermore, I would like to make the suggestion that the Newcastle - Cambridge service could extend to Stansted Airport, either hourly or just every 2 hours. This not only retains the Birmingham-Stansted service already in place, but also targets a whole new market north of Birmingham which I believe would be welcomed and very lucrative.

Why not extend the Cambridge services to Norwich and Stansted respectively. You could also extend one Newcastle service to Glasgow Central and the maybe a few extensions to Aberdeen (maybe 4 per day). Lincoln I would only have one due to capacity even then I’m not. Sure how many you would fit. I divert one Southampton service to either Gatwick/Brighton or Ashford.

 

[elliotjelliot]

Why not extend the Cambridge services to Norwich and Stansted respectively. You could also extend one Newcastle service to Glasgow Central and the maybe a few extensions to Aberdeen (maybe 4 per day). Lincoln I would only have one due to capacity even then I’m not. Sure how many you would fit. I divert one Southampton service to either Gatwick/Brighton or Ashford.

By Norwich and Stansted respectively do you mean dividing at Cambridge or Ely or do you mean alternate every hour?

I do think any extensions should be more than once a day. So I agree with the Scottish suggestion but I think that a Gatwick/Brighton service would be successful enough to do a few more times a day.

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

By Norwich and Stansted respectively do you mean dividing at Cambridge or Ely or do you mean alternate every hour?

I do think any extensions should be more than once a day. So I agree with the Scottish suggestion but I think that a Gatwick/Brighton service would be successful enough to do a few more times a day.

well freetoview33 proposed two trains (one from Newcastle and one from Liverpool) I was thinking one could run Norwich the other Stansted. So it’s:

• 1tph Liverpool Lime Street to Cardiff Central
• 1tph Liverpool Lime Street to Stansted Airport
• 1tph Manchester Piccadilly to Exeter St David’s
  • 2 hourly extensions to Plymouth
• 1tph Manchester Piccadilly to Poole
• 1tph Glasgow Central to Exeter St David’s
  • Extensions to Paignton every two hours
• 1tph Newcastle to Norwich
  • 4 trains per day start at Aberdeen
• 1tph Lincoln to Cardiff Central
• 1tph Nottingham to Reading
  • Two-hourly extensions to Brighton

Is it worth going to Swansea and Portsmouth harbour?

 

[PartyOperator]

At least one of the Cardiff trains per hour needs to go via Gloucester. Bristol Parkway gets plenty of trains already and the Severn Tunnel is not exactly overflowing with unused paths. The Cardiff-Nottingham trains are the only regular direct trains from Gloucester to Birmingham (once per hour) and the only (semi) fast trains from Gloucester to Cardiff.

What's the justification for having so many trains stop at Bromsgrove and Worcestershire Parkway? Why none at University or Ashchurch?

 

[freetoview33]

As I said I'd introduce other services with other operators that I will post later. This is just the core network.

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

As I said I'd introduce other services with other operators that I will post later. This is just the core network.

Its a good XC Network. Will you consider our amendments?

 

[PartyOperator]

As I said I'd introduce other services with other operators that I will post later. This is just the core network.

One of the reasons the current XC network looks the way it does south of Birmingham is that capacity is constrained at New Street and along the cross-city line. There probably isn't room even for your extra 1 train per hour, let alone extra services by another operator. Cardiff-Birmingham via Gloucester makes sense, the only issue is that the trains aren't long enough. You would gain very little by sending these trains via Bristol Parkway.

 

[elliotjelliot]

well freetoview33 proposed two trains (one from Newcastle and one from Liverpool) I was thinking one could run Norwich the other Stansted. So it’s:

• 1tph Liverpool Lime Street to Cardiff Central
• 1tph Liverpool Lime Street to Stansted Airport
• 1tph Manchester Piccadilly to Exeter St David’s
  • 2 hourly extensions to Plymouth
• 1tph Manchester Piccadilly to Poole
• 1tph Glasgow Central to Exeter St David’s
  • Extensions to Paignton every two hours
• 1tph Newcastle to Norwich
  • 4 trains per day start at Aberdeen
• 1tph Lincoln to Cardiff Central
• 1tph Nottingham to Reading
  • Two-hourly extensions to Brighton

Is it worth going to Swansea and Portsmouth harbour?

I think Portsmouth Habour is a good destination, maybe only a few extensions a day required, but I think in terms of ferry links and the size of the city, a long distance service north of London would be nothing less than beneficial.

Swansea is good but I think its already served by long distance services in the form of GWR to London and TfW to Manchester.

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

• 1tph Liverpool Lime Street to Swansea
• 1tph Liverpool Lime Street to Stansted Airport
• 1tph Manchester Piccadilly to Exeter St David’s
  • 2 hourly extensions to Plymouth
• 1tph Manchester Piccadilly to Poole
  • 3tpd divert from Southampton to Portsmouth Harbour
• 1tph Glasgow Central to Exeter St David’s
  • Extensions to Paignton every two hours
• 1tph Newcastle to Norwich
  • 4 trains per day start at Aberdeen
• 1tph Lincoln to Cardiff Central
• 1tph Nottingham to Reading
  • Two-hourly extensions to Brighton

Added Portsmouth and Swansea. Anywhere else: Ashford, Dover and Ramsgate? It may provide a regular service from Ramsgate-Tonbridge and Reading

 

[Bevan Price]

I think that 7 coaches would be excessive for a few of the suggested routes, and also that 802s would be "over-specified" on routes where speed limits are unlikely to exceed 90mph, or even 75 mph in the foreseeable future. I would use something like a 5 coach 17x on those; no first class.
Also Newcastle - Birmingham - Cambridge or East Anglia is a very roundabout route, unlikely to attract a lot of through traffic.
Personally, I would prefer to see franchises replaced by a single national operator (public or private), and revisions to existing service patterns.
For example (and not showing all the intermediate stops; hourly & 7 coach Class 802 unless shown otherwise)
Using existing lines only, but with some capacity upgrades.
1. (Chester, every 2 hours) - Shrewsbury - Birmingham - Leicester - Peterborough - Cambridge. (5 coach 17x)
2. (Edinburgh / Glasgow in alternate hours) - Preston - Manchester - Stoke - Birmingham - Coventry - Reading.
(Some trains extended to Brighton or Portsmouth; replaces TPE Manchester Airport / Scottish services.)
2a. Manchester - Stoke - Birmingham - Bristol - Weston Super Mare - Exeter - (Paignton / Plymouth in alternate hours)
2b. Manchester - Crewe - Birmingham - Solihull - Oxford - Reading. (Some extended to Southampton or Bournemouth)
3. Edinburgh - Newcastle - Doncaster - Sheffield - Birmingham - Bristol - Exeter - (Paignton / Plymouth in alternate hours)
4. Newcastle - Leeds - Sheffield - Derby - Birmingham - Reading - Bournemouth
4a (Bradford / Harrogate in alternate hours) - Leeds - Sheffield - Birmingham - Bristol.
5. Liverpool - Crewe - Birmingham - Cheltenham - Gloucester - Cardiff (some extended to Swansea)
5a. Liverpool - Crewe - Birmingham (replacing the through service to London which has introduced more unreliability)
6. Cleethorpes (every 2 hours) - Lincoln - Nottingham - Derby - Birmingham - Worcester - Hereford (5 coach 17x)
7. Manchester - Crewe - Shrewsbury - Hereford - Cardiff - Swansea (5 coach 17x) (Some extended to West Wales)
7a (Liverpool / Holyhead in alternate hours) - Chester - Shrewsbury - Hereford - Cardiff (5 coach 17x)
8. Liverpool - Manchester - Sheffield - Derby - Nottingham - Grantham - Peterborough (all these 5 coach 17x)
8a. Bradford - Leeds - Sheffield - Alfreton - Nottingham - Peterborough.
8b. (Chester) - Crewe - Derby - Nottingham - Peterborough
(Just 2 per hour of this group beyond Nottingham; one per hour continuing to Ely, Norwich & Great Yarmouth.)

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

I think that 7 coaches would be excessive for a few of the suggested routes, and also that 802s would be "over-specified" on routes where speed limits are unlikely to exceed 90mph, or even 75 mph in the foreseeable future. I would use something like a 5 coach 17x on those; no first class.
Also Newcastle - Birmingham - Cambridge or East Anglia is a very roundabout route, unlikely to attract a lot of through traffic.
Personally, I would prefer to see franchises replaced by a single national operator (public or private), and revisions to existing service patterns.
For example (and not showing all the intermediate stops; hourly & 7 coach Class 802 unless shown otherwise)
Using existing lines only, but with some capacity upgrades.
1. (Chester, every 2 hours) - Shrewsbury - Birmingham - Leicester - Peterborough - Cambridge. (5 coach 17x)
2. (Edinburgh / Glasgow in alternate hours) - Preston - Manchester - Stoke - Birmingham - Coventry - Reading.
(Some trains extended to Brighton or Portsmouth; replaces TPE Manchester Airport / Scottish services.)
2a. Manchester - Stoke - Birmingham - Bristol - Weston Super Mare - Exeter - (Paignton / Plymouth in alternate hours)
2b. Manchester - Crewe - Birmingham - Solihull - Oxford - Reading. (Some extended to Southampton or Bournemouth)
3. Edinburgh - Newcastle - Doncaster - Sheffield - Birmingham - Bristol - Exeter - (Paignton / Plymouth in alternate hours)
4. Newcastle - Leeds - Sheffield - Derby - Birmingham - Reading - Bournemouth
4a (Bradford / Harrogate in alternate hours) - Leeds - Sheffield - Birmingham - Bristol.
5. Liverpool - Crewe - Birmingham - Cheltenham - Gloucester - Cardiff (some extended to Swansea)
5a. Liverpool - Crewe - Birmingham (replacing the through service to London which has introduced more unreliability)
6. Cleethorpes (every 2 hours) - Lincoln - Nottingham - Derby - Birmingham - Worcester - Hereford (5 coach 17x)
7. Manchester - Crewe - Shrewsbury - Hereford - Cardiff - Swansea (5 coach 17x) (Some extended to West Wales)
7a (Liverpool / Holyhead in alternate hours) - Chester - Shrewsbury - Hereford - Cardiff (5 coach 17x)
8. Liverpool - Manchester - Sheffield - Derby - Nottingham - Grantham - Peterborough (all these 5 coach 17x)
8a. Bradford - Leeds - Sheffield - Alfreton - Nottingham - Peterborough.
8b. (Chester) - Crewe - Derby - Nottingham - Peterborough
(Just 2 per hour of this group beyond Nottingham; one per hour continuing to Ely, Norwich & Great Yarmouth.)

That timetable could work. Cleethorpes???? I'M IN. I live there but on a serious note mayve cut to Lincoln?

 

[elliotjelliot]

• 1tph Liverpool Lime Street to Swansea
• 1tph Liverpool Lime Street to Stansted Airport
• 1tph Manchester Piccadilly to Exeter St David’s
  • 2 hourly extensions to Plymouth
• 1tph Manchester Piccadilly to Poole
  • 3tpd divert from Southampton to Portsmouth Harbour
• 1tph Glasgow Central to Exeter St David’s
  • Extensions to Paignton every two hours
• 1tph Newcastle to Norwich
  • 4 trains per day start at Aberdeen
• 1tph Lincoln to Cardiff Central
• 1tph Nottingham to Reading
  • Two-hourly extensions to Brighton

Added Portsmouth and Swansea. Anywhere else: Ashford, Dover and Ramsgate? It may provide a regular service from Ramsgate-Tonbridge and Reading

mmmm I don't think they are the most important destinations, though I could see maybe two dover extensions for the sake of cross-channel services. What do you think?

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

mmmm I don't think they are the most important destinations, though I could see maybe two dover extensions for the sake of cross-channel services. What do you think?

just cut as far as Ashford. You could have the second two-hourly service from Nottingham extend to Ashford?

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

• 1tph Liverpool Lime Street to Swansea
• 1tph Liverpool Lime Street to Stansted Airport
• 1tph Manchester Piccadilly to Exeter St David’s
  • 2 hourly extensions to Plymouth
• 1tph Manchester Piccadilly to Poole
  • 3tpd divert from Southampton to Portsmouth Harbour
• 1tph Glasgow Central to Exeter St David’s
  • Extensions to Paignton every two hours
• 1tph Hull to Norwich
  • 4 trains per day start at Aberdeen (join route at Doncaster)
• 1tph Lincoln to Cardiff Central
• 1tph Nottingham to Reading
  • Two-hourly extensions to Brighton
  • Two-hourly extensions to Ashford International

This ok?

 

[4-SUB 4732]

I have for many years been working on and off for ideas for all areas of the rail network and the idea I have "completed" first is CrossCountry. So here goes.

Brand new 7 car Class 802's for all routes

Replace the current network with the following hourly routes.

Service 1: Liverpool Lime Street - Liverpool South Parkway - Runcorn - Crewe - Stafford - Wolverhampton - Smethwick Galton Bridge - Birmingham New Street - Bromsgrove - Worcestershire Parkway - Cheltenham Spa - Bristol Parkway - Newport - Cardiff Central

(Partly replacing the CrossCountry service from Cardiff - Birmingham and the London Northwestern Railway service from Birmingham - Liverpool, would link in with other changes to fill gaps.)

Service 2: Liverpool Lime Street - Liverpool South Parkway - Runcorn - Crewe - Stafford - Wolverhampton - Smethwick Galton Bridge - Birmingham New Street - Birmingham International - Coventry - Rugby - Rugby Parkway - Northampton - Bedford - Sandy - Cambridge

(Using a new line between Northampton and Bedford, providing a new Cambridge Link)

Service 3: Manchester Piccadilly - Stockport - Macclesfield - Stoke-on-Trent - Stafford - Wolverhampton - Smethwick Galton Bridge - Birmingham New Street - Bromsgrove - Worcestershire Parkway - Cheltenham Spa - Bristol Parkway - Bristol Temple Meads - Taunton - Tiverton Parkway - Exeter St Davids (With 2hrly extensions to Plymouth Via Dawlish - Newton Abbot, Totnes and Ivybridge [every 4 hours only].)

Service 4: Manchester Piccadilly - Stockport - Macclesfield - Stoke-on-Trent - Stafford - Wolverhampton - Smethwick Galton Bridge - Birmingham New Street - Coventry - Leamington Spa - Banbury - Oxford - Reading - Basingstoke - Winchester - Southampton Airport - Southampton Central (With 2hrly extensions to Bournemouth Via Brockhurst and Christchurch)

Service 5: Newcastle Central - Durham - Darlington - York - Leeds - Wakefield Westgate - Sheffield - Chesterfield - Derby - Burton-on-Trent - Tamworth - Birmingham New Street - Bromsgrove - Worcestershire Parkway - Cheltenham Spa - Bristol Parkway - Bristol Temple Meads - Taunton - Tiverton Parkway - Exeter St Davids (With 2hrly extensions to Paignton Via Dawlish, Newton Abbot and Torquay Central [Renamed from Torre].)

Service 6: Newcastle Central - Durham - Darlington - York - Leeds - Wakefield Westgate - Sheffield - Chesterfield - Derby - Burton-on-Trent - Tamworth - Birmingham New Street - Birmingham International - Coventry - Rugby - Rugby Parkway - Northampton - Bedford - Sandy - Cambridge

Service 7: Lincoln Central - Newark Castle - Nottingham - Castle Donington - Burton-on-Trent - Tamworth - Wilnecote - Birmingham New Street - Bromsgrove - Worcestershire Parkway - Cheltenham Spa - Bristol Parkway - Newport - Cardiff Central (Providing a much improved service to Lincoln and a new link to/from Birmingham and a new station at Castle Donington.

Service 8: Lincoln Central - Newark Castle - Nottingham - Castle Donington - Burton-on-Trent - Tamworth - Wilnecote - Birmingham New Street - Coventry - Leamington Spa - Banbury - Oxford - Reading - Basingstoke - Winchester - Southampton Airport - Southampton Central (With 2hrly extensions to Bournemouth Via Brockhurst and Christchurch)

This would link in with other changes on other routes, that I will publish soon.

Thanks but no thanks.

Spend another 7 years and come back with a better idea.

 

[4-SUB 4732]

well freetoview33 proposed two trains (one from Newcastle and one from Liverpool) I was thinking one could run Norwich the other Stansted. So it’s:

• 1tph Liverpool Lime Street to Cardiff Central
• 1tph Liverpool Lime Street to Stansted Airport
• 1tph Manchester Piccadilly to Exeter St David’s
  • 2 hourly extensions to Plymouth
• 1tph Manchester Piccadilly to Poole
• 1tph Glasgow Central to Exeter St David’s
  • Extensions to Paignton every two hours
• 1tph Newcastle to Norwich
  • 4 trains per day start at Aberdeen
• 1tph Lincoln to Cardiff Central
• 1tph Nottingham to Reading
  • Two-hourly extensions to Brighton

Is it worth going to Swansea and Portsmouth harbour?

Newcastle to Norwich via Birmingham... Great. Everyone’s going to be clambering for a seat on that!

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

Newcastle to Norwich via Birmingham... Great. Everyone’s going to be clambering for a seat on that!

An extra Newcastle to Birmingham service would be popular!

Birmingham to Cambridge and Norwich May also be popular.

 

[4-SUB 4732]

An extra Newcastle to Birmingham service would be popular!

Birmingham to Cambridge and Norwich May also be popular.

You don’t go all the way into Cambridge to come out again to do Norwich. It’s pointless.

Stop it!

 

[The Planner]

<SWANSEA PORTSMOUTH BRIGHTON AND RAMSGATE KLAXON> Everyone take cover....

 

[swt_passenger]

<SWANSEA PORTSMOUTH BRIGHTON AND RAMSGATE KLAXON> Everyone take cover....

...and 2 tph to/from Liverpool. As long as you can squeeze that into your fantasy XC network, it’s a winner. More so if you can just throw away long-standing and well used existing services.