My brother having problems at Bedford?

[mumrar]

I'd say the fact they are called Guidelines is a significant clue - no mention of words like 'you must', 'rules', 'you are required to' etc.

I agree, but if I want a hassle free visit it and I'm not just passing through, then it is a far easier way of dealing with things before somebody a little power crazy causes grief.

As for the deletion of materials, the person should not insist on it being done, but just because they do it doesn't mean you should comply.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

I'd say the fact they are called Guidelines is a significant clue - no mention of words like 'you must', 'rules', 'you are required to' etc.

People on here complain when TOCs dont follow ATOC guidelines or DfT best practice, so it is hypocritical, and wrong, to argue that because they are guidelines you shouldn't follow them.
I would also say that "you should" is pretty clear that they are telling you to do that, not asking.

 

[Ferret]

Why is it hypocritical to point out there are times when following the guidelines is completely impractical Ralph?

450 NEDs descend on a station from a railtour to photograph the tour locos. Should they sign in? One of us turns up at a station to catch a train, and spot a photograph worth taking 2 mins before your train is due to leave. Is it practical then? Sure - I agree with what Mumrar just said, and if nothing else it's common courtesy if you're sticking around a while, but if somebody hasn't signed in that is no excuse for somebody to throw their weight around in an effort to get themselves in the Tabloids! I'm sorry Ralph, but you aren't convincing me at all!

 

[yorkie]

Rail enthusiasts should sign in apparently, but if I am a customer and not an 'enthusiast' and if I take photos because I am interested in photography and not railway enthusiasm, then I am not required to sign in. Not that I would recommend lying, and for some people it would be rather obvious they were lying!

If asked to delete the photos, refuse. They can't touch you or your camera. Just calmly say "call the police if you have a problem with the photos I have taken" They can ask you to stop taking further photos and they can ask you to leave the station. But they can't force you to delete photos.

(If asked to leave Bedford station, just walk to the other station in Bedford and get a train back via Bletchley)

 

[ralphchadkirk]

I agree, the stuff is not well thought through, and is ambiguous in places, but it's what we've got to work with. And, until they change the guidelines to be sure, I will err on the side of caution and interpret them as that they want me to sign in at any station if I am going to be filming there (not that I really go out and film trains anyway!)

 

[yorkie]

People on here complain when TOCs dont follow ATOC guidelines or DfT best practice, so it is hypocritical, and wrong, to argue that because they are guidelines you shouldn't follow them.
I would also say that "you should" is pretty clear that they are telling you to do that, not asking.

It is often a franchise commitment or a requirement of a TOCs license or ATOC membership to adhere to such guidelines. I am not aware of any commitment from customers when purchasing tickets to adhere to enthusiast guidelines.

It is worth noting that the enthusiast guidelines are worded in such a way that they deal with a very specific issue where someone arrives by a mode other than by train (the wording 'before entering the station' is a giveaway!) then standing on a platform end for several hours, and then going back home. Clearly for such people, who are not customers of the railway, the guidelines make sense and it is seems only right that people in that situation follow them (otherwise, they have no custom with the railways so they can be asked to leave the station).

But the idea that anyone who is an enthusiast who changes trains at a station should sign in while doing so is absolutely absurd.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I agree, the stuff is not well thought through, and is ambiguous in places, but it's what we've got to work with. And, until they change the guidelines to be sure, I will err on the side of caution and interpret them as that they want me to sign in at any station if I am going to be filming there (not that I really go out and film trains anyway!)

No, it says you should sign in - regardless of filming or photography! So even if you change trains, you should sign in, and not stand near departure screens, etc if you are an enthusiast. Apparently.

The idea that there is a requirement so sign in for filming/photography is a myth.

Before you enter the platform

At major stations please inform the Duty Station Manager of your presence. This will ensure that station staff are aware that you are on the station and they can go about their duties without concern as to your reasons for being there. At smaller stations you should ensure that you advise a member of the station staff of your activities.
You may require a platform ticket to allow access to platforms.

There you go - nothing to do with photography!

There is a completely separate photography section at the bottom of the page.

So, if I arrive by train, the section "Before you enter the platform" clearly cannot apply, can it? Unless the station manager boards the train!

 

[ralphchadkirk]

No, it says you should sign in - regardless of filming or photography! So even if you change trains, you should sign in, and not stand near departure screens, etc.

I don't go trainspotting, so a only the filming requirements affect me (I am shooting a film involving some shots on Waterloo concourse).
I would think that it is reasonable to interpret it in such a way that if you are on the station without a reason for travelling (obviously taking into account tourists and the fact most stations seem to be blasted shopping centres now) then you should inform staff of your presence.

The idea that there is a requirement so sign in for filming/photography is a myth.

There is no requirement to sign in, but there is a requirement to inform staff of your presence, which could be by way of signing in.

So, if I arrive by train, the section "Before you enter the platform" clearly cannot apply, can it? Unless the station manager boards the train!

As I have said, they can be horribly ambiguous in places.

 

[londonmidland]

When I went Bedford I had no problem, no sign in necessary I just went up to the FCC "ticket barrier" person and I said I have a camera and said "Is it alright if I do some trainspotting, it hasn't got flash" and he let me on, he just said stay behind the yellow lines.

 

[TomJ93]

I'm a bit late to the party but, often I don't sign in unless asked as they can be very, very awkward.

At Liverpool St I was asked for ID, I'm not old enough to drink or drive, why the heck would I take my passport 90 odd miles with me, just to show some bloke? They're not cheap to replace! When I explained and I said "It is for my photography project, i'm going to be there literally 5 minutes and i'm not suing a tripod." He refused due to my lack of ID.

The last time I was there I put my travelcard in the machine, and went and photogaphed some DVTs and spoke to the driver, he didn't seem to mind how I got in.

Signed in a Paddington, specifically requesting to go behind the barrier line, made me hand over my address, phone number then said I need a valid ticket t pass, so I asked the bloke at the gateline and he seemed happy to let me pass! There was a a manager walking up and down the Platforms, he didn't stop me once.

Had a fright at Euston, was photographing 390s, when a bloke in a big VT coat came running towards me said "Are you getting on this train?"

I said no and he said I am ok, he was just checking I wasn't trying to get passed the manned gateline that would shortly commence.

The HS1 domestic people are always happy to help, "No flash mate" is all they have to say.

I used my Travelcard again at Waterloo, was photographing a 444 when I got quizzed, and told not to step foot outside the canopy? Went onboard a 444. as I wanted to photograph the buffet, and a cleaner apologized for 'being in my way' which was nice of him

Kings cross is an odd place, I've been up and down it all day freely, had a gateline assistant with poor english, when asked could I cross the barriers he just kept replying "Harry Potter not here"! But eventually let me through. Been in a 91s cab, that was fun, and had a guard save me 30p by saying the use of the MKIVs toilet was fine by him, as he had 10minutes til departure. A GC driver honk his horn, scaring my friend to the point where she jumped out of fright, I have a picture of him giggling in his cab somewhere.

Then last time, I got shouted at by a cleaner! Just for being in a vestibule.

Has anyone noticed the gateline staff at Marylebone have been told to shape up? I keep being asked to sign in. I went to the help kiosk where the station manager (who is very nice) said how can i help, to which I explained and he said "tell them I said you can go through" so no problem, except the Banbury 67 had already left!

 

[anthony263]

Staff at Marylebone have told me once to just go through the barrier rather than going to find the duty manager. I do try to find and speak to a member of staff whenever i am at some of the busier stations like next week when i plan on traveling using the severn & solent rover to Southampton, Weymouth etc.

 

[moonrakerz]

If one has to "sign in" - is it necessary to produce your passport to identify yourself ?
Otherwise you could have that well known terrorist Mr M Mouse let loose on the station !