Murder inquiry 'after woman pushed under Tube train during joke'

[jopsuk]

(Telegraph link)

There aren't words, are there? Thoughts to the deceased's family, the driver and the witnesses.

 

[MCR247]

The link doesn't work

EDIT: Don't know if its the same link, but this one works for me

 

[jopsuk]

Fixed the link- same one.

 

[185]

Think KX underground is one of those places thats so busy, all 8 platforms need sliding edge doors anyway.

 

[scotsman]

Words fail me

 

[Class377/5]

I don't know what to say.

Think KX underground is one of those places thats so busy, all 8 platforms need sliding edge doors anyway.

I wonder how long before the issue of PED's at all underground stations gets picked up in the press. But the question is always going to be cost. Tho fixing them on lines such as the Victoria Line would make sense as its new stock will stay with the line tho even if they agreed this, apart from the money, you still wouldn't see any work done till after 2012 not to mention having to close sections to build the PED's.

 

[MCR247]

The thing with PEDs is what happens when you get the new stock? The Victoria Line at the moment would be awkward, because of there still still being 67 stock. But what about SSL, you couldn't have PEDs unless they were all glass and there was doors for both stock, and the computer told them whether it was one or the other

 

[jopsuk]

PEDs also cause issues with ventilation. What ventilation there is of deep tube platforms is maily down to the piston effect of the trains in the tunnels. On the Jubilee extension, the stations were designed with this in mind, and in fact the doors are partly to manage to the ventilation. They didn't fit them to the existing deep stations, and didn't fit them either on the (quieter) surface stations towards Stratford. Half-height PEDs would potentially be possible.

On the SSL, once the stock replacement program is complete, they would be a posibility- venitlation isn't such an issue, and with the A, C and D stock gone, all that would be needed at Great Portland Street through to Liverpool Street would be a form of Selective Door Opening- with the "Next train" known it should even be possible to indicate above the doors (presumably at the rear end of the platform) that would not be opening when the S7 arrives. It would only be that short stretch- the District, H&C and Circle will all use S7, and Met will be all S8- and at Baker Street and Aldgate the Met has its own platforms.

 

[142094]

Sure I read on BBC News that it was a man who had gone under the train - eitehr there are two different incidents or BBC/Telegraph have got the wrong details.

 

[westcoaster]

Sure I read on BBC News that it was a man who had gone under the train - eitehr there are two different incidents or BBC/Telegraph have got the wrong details.

The evening standard also reports a man as the deceased , he was wearing womens clothing hence the confusion caused, seems the deceased and the arrested lady knew each other, thoughts go the the deceased family and friends and also to the driver and other staff.

 

[wibble]

Think KX underground is one of those places thats so busy, all 8 platforms need sliding edge doors anyway.

They're starting to reto-fit these onto the Paris Metro - the doors are about 6' (180cm) tall and don't look as substantial as the ones on the Jubilee line.

Maybe once the stock upgrades are complete, they can think about installing the doors at the busiest Underground stations....

 

[Wyvern]

The evening standard also reports a man as the deceased , he was wearing womens clothing hence the confusion caused, seems the deceased and the arrested lady knew each other, thoughts go the the deceased family and friends and also to the driver and other staff.

Murder probe as woman 'pushes transvestite under Tube train in front of horrified rush hour commuters'

 

[jon0844]

How did I know that was going to take me to the Daily Mail website!

It couldn't just be a person thrown on the train in the headline...

 

[Wyvern]

I began by agreeing with you but then felt it may well be relevant as a possible reason the situation occurred.

 

[mumrar]

You can always rely on the Hate Mail to bring things to their level. Transvestite is not a gender, it's a male or female regardless of how they're dressed. Honestly, considering the circumstances of the story, could they not be a bit more compassionate.

 

[The_Stig]

The two of them were old enough to know better than to push each other whilst a train was entering the platform.

My thoughts to his family, driver, recovery staff and all those that witnessed the incident.

 

[jon0844]

I began by agreeing with you but then felt it may well be relevant as a possible reason the situation occurred.

Yes it may be, but does anyone know that - or, more importantly, does the Daily Mail know that?

I don't have a clue, but what if these two people were best mates and it was a tragic accident, caused by the man wearing heels that slipped when pushed..

No, the Daily Mail has now made up everyone's mind for them. He was murdered as a man wearing women's clothing. It was a hate crime.. end of.

 

[Class377/5]

The thing with PEDs is what happens when you get the new stock? The Victoria Line at the moment would be awkward, because of there still still being 67 stock. But what about SSL, you couldn't have PEDs unless they were all glass and there was doors for both stock, and the computer told them whether it was one or the other

Thats why I mentioned no PED's being started until 2012 once the 09TS have fully taken all duties on the Victoria Line.

But that means all future stock will be defined by the 09TS on the Victoria Line. Looks at the 96/95TS window arrangement for proof on how this can cause issues.

 

[LE Greys]

Words fail me

Quite.

 

[Wyvern]

What a terrible waste of a good life.

The Independent

David Burgess, 63, who was known by the name of Sonia, was killed in front of scores of commuters on Monday evening at King's Cross Station. A 34-year-old woman, Nina Kanagasingham, has been charged with his murder.

Although legally a man, his family called him Sonia and were fully aware, as were his work colleagues, of his two identities.

As a solicitor he was involved in a number of key immigration and human rights cases. In 1993 Mr Burgess was instrumental in a case involving then Home Secretary Kenneth Baker, who became the first minister to be held to be in contempt for defying a court order banning the deportation of an asylum-seeker.

 

[Mojo]

But that means all future stock will be defined by the 09TS on the Victoria Line. Looks at the 96/95TS window arrangement for proof on how this can cause issues.

Windows on the Victoria line per car are seem to me to be even smaller on the 95/96 stock! Given in passenger service they run wholly underground there's not really much of a need for anything bigger! Saying that, I don't find the windows noticeably smaller than other deep Tube stock with the obvious exception of the 92's curved windows.

The 09 stock anyway is larger than other deep Tube stocks because of the Victoria's slightly larger tunnels and also the thinner bodyshell and externally hung doors.

I very much doubt we'll see the expansion of PEDs any time soon, the cost of installation would be too great to justify it, given that LU costs a death at £1.6m and a serious injury at £160,000. In addition dwell time is significantly lengthened by PEDs.

 

[MCR247]

Why is it lengthened?

 

[A60K]

Because stopping needs to be more precise to get the doors lined up, and a couple of seconds is lost when closing the doors because of the closing of the two sets of doors slightly apart. Overall it probably means one or two less trains per hour can run.

 

[pinkpanther]

You can always rely on the Hate Mail to bring things to their level. Transvestite is not a gender, it's a male or female regardless of how they're dressed. Honestly, considering the circumstances of the story, could they not be a bit more compassionate.

Sadly this isn't a surprise - the Mail have never been known to be compassionate to anyone who doesn't fit their narrow view of the world.

IIRC they were the paper that hounded Caroline Cossey (aka the actress "Tula" in the Bond movie "For Your Eyes Only") in the early 80s when she was revealed to be trans.

They haven't changed, but fortunately society has.

 

[scotsman]

Sadly this isn't a surprise - the Mail have never been known to be compassionate to anyone who doesn't fit their narrow view of the world.

I've been banned for posting truthful comments about the rail industry that their readers didn't like - they reported an innocent comment about Advance Tickets and it was upheld. Nothing I've posted has been published since.

No great loss, not sure why I sunk to the level of posting on The Mail's website anyway.

 

[Class377/5]

Because stopping needs to be more precise to get the doors lined up, and a couple of seconds is lost when closing the doors because of the closing of the two sets of doors slightly apart. Overall it probably means one or two less trains per hour can run.

Actually that doesn't make a bit of different to times now as they have to stop in a certain place now on most lines. Even without PED's the newer train have to stop in a certain places, Northern line is a good example of this so adding PED's will not increase times in stations from what we have now on most lines.

 

[jrhilton]

Actually that doesn't make a bit of different to times now as they have to stop in a certain place now on most lines. Even without PED's the newer train have to stop in a certain places, Northern line is a good example of this so adding PED's will not increase times in stations from what we have now on most lines.

I would argue it does, but only very slightly, looking at the Jubilee line as a whole; it takes a little longer to slow down and open the doors and stop/start again once the train doors are closed at the stations from Westminster onwards towards Stratford than the stations from Green Park to Stanmore.

Anyone who uses the line will have been on a train where it stopped a little short, then had to slowly go forward, it happens a lot. The drivers do a fine job at stopping within a few inches, but you can understand that quite often they can be an inch or two short and need to slowly go forward etc. You don't get the same thing happening on the rest of the line.

Also once the doors start closing on the Northern line, the trains are off on the go again quicker than on the Jubilee line east of Green Park, so I am not convinced your argument holds up.

We are talking only seconds, but there is definitely a difference. All of that is before people get things stuck in the outer doors etc. Now how much difference it makes in terms of trains per hour i'm not sure, I suspect not much, if any though.

 

[Gavelex]

Through this thread, nobody has commented that no other trains apart from the 96 stock have PED interlock fitted, nor that the PEDs on the JLE will be life expired in 3 years time...

 

[DavyCrocket]

Through this thread, nobody has commented that no other trains apart from the 96 stock have PED interlock fitted, nor that the PEDs on the JLE will be life expired in 3 years time...

An awful lot of equipment is afterlife expired! Luckily some of it works better than the newer equipment.

Regarding the one under, the female who is charged with the murder appeared in court a week or so ago and was unshaven - as in a beard. The plot thickens!

 

[jon0844]

I read that the woman is being held in a male prison, on account of 'her' undergoing a sex change operation from man to woman.

I don't know the full details, but I am sure that these two sets of circumstances may explain what happened when it goes to court.