Munich to Venice

[Ian99]

Do all trains from Munich to Venice go through the Brenner Pass?

I'm looking for a route London to Venice for 5 adults and 2 children and the Paris - Venice sleeper is looking more expensive than normal (ie no cheaper tickets left) for the 16th February..

 

[blackfive460]

Do all trains from Munich to Venice go through the Brenner Pass?

Yes they do.

 

[duesselmartin]

Does the night train not take the Tauern route?

 

[30907]

Does the night train not take the Tauern route?

It does.

An alternative overnight service, giving the best scenery in daylight, is the Duesseldorf-innsbruck, but on a Saturday night in mid February that could be very pricey too. The Vienna portion might be cheaper but is a bit of a detour...
Or the OP could do the journey wholly by day trains (taking his pick of scenic routes!)

 

[Ian99]

Thanks for everyone's input - in fact it's now changed and Monday 18th is now the departure date. Interestingly, it is maybe 20% cheaper to go via Brussels, Munich, sleeper train to Padua then to Venice than the "normal" via Paris and then sleeper route. Takes a fair bit longer, mind you.

 

[Groningen]

München - Venezia can be done with a change in Verona (Brenner) or Villach (Tauern).

 

[30907]

Thanks for everyone's input - in fact it's now changed and Monday 18th is now the departure date. Interestingly, it is maybe 20% cheaper to go via Brussels, Munich, sleeper train to Padua then to Venice than the "normal" via Paris and then sleeper route. Takes a fair bit longer, mind you.

Doesn't surprise me. And, strangely, even cheaper to wait in Munich for the direct sleeper with a more civilised arrival time.

 

[Ian99]

Does anyone know the most reliable way to book tickets for 4 adults and 2 children, London to Munich? I can split the party in halves on Trainline.eu but then of course we're not seated together....

 

[30907]

Does anyone know the most reliable way to book tickets for 4 adults and 2 children, London to Munich? I can split the party in halves on Trainline.eu but then of course we're not seated together....

I would always book this route direct with DB.
https://www.bahn.com/en/view/offers/europe/group-saver-fare-europe.shtml

 

[Ian99]

I just can't get that link to work for 4 adults and 2 children - the only time I can get the group function to work is for trips within Germany.

 

[Ian99]

So I gave up and went to Trainline. Wouldn't let me book 4 adults and 2 children so split it into 2 bookings - 1) 2 adults and 2 children 2) 2 adults. Needless to say, the tickets were cheaper for the party of 4 rather than the party of 2....

 

[Ian99]

Does anyone have any recent experience of eating breakfast and/or lunch on these ICE trains from Bruxelles to Munich? The tight connection times don't give enough time to buy anything at the stations.

 

[43096]

Does anyone have any recent experience of eating breakfast and/or lunch on these ICE trains from Bruxelles to Munich? The tight connection times don't give enough time to buy anything at the stations.

Almost all ICE sets have a Bordrestaurant, it’s just the tilting sets that have slightly lower-spec Bordbistros. I’ve always found the catering in DB restaurant cars to be good, with a really nice travelling environment. Definitely something to enjoy on your journey.

 

[EAD]

Ian which trains did you book in the end? Having played around, the reason the DB site would not automatically give a cross border group discount price (from memory applies for groups of 6 or more) is because children are treated and priced differently in different countries, so they ask you to call/contact them/book at a ticket office [at least that is what it says on the German language version].

As 4306 says, the on board catering is good usually and the current menus can be found here https://db-bordgastronomie.de/dbgastro/downloads/DB_4060-Speise_und_Getraenkekarte-201812.pdf. If taking the EC onwards over the Brenner, being formed of Austrian re-built stock also has a good restaurant carriage. The menu for that is here http://don.at/Content/uploads/2018/12/DoNs_Bistro_Winter_Menu_don.at_.pdf

 

[Ian99]

Thanks for the comments on catering - looks good!

These were the tickets that I booked to get to Munich

10:25 Bruxelles-Midi ICE 15
13:31 Frankfurt (Main) Hbf
13:54 Frankfurt (Main) Hbf ICE 627
17:04 München Hbf

I booked 2 tickets with a seat reservation and 4 tickets without in the hope that I could book the seat reservations afterwards as I read one could.

Haven't managed that so I've emailed Dbahn asking for their help...

I've not booked the Munich to Venice tickets yet but it looks like I'll have to call them to do so...

 

[43096]

Thanks for the comments on catering - looks good!

These were the tickets that I booked to get to Munich

10:25 Bruxelles-Midi ICE 15
13:31 Frankfurt (Main) Hbf
13:54 Frankfurt (Main) Hbf ICE 627
17:04 München Hbf

I booked 2 tickets with a seat reservation and 4 tickets without in the hope that I could book the seat reservations afterwards as I read one could.

Haven't managed that so I've emailed Dbahn asking for their help...

I've not booked the Munich to Venice tickets yet but it looks like I'll have to call them to do so...

Both services should be formed of ICE3 sets, which have restaurant cars. Connection looks quite tight given DB’s notorious punctuality problems and the history of poor performance of the Brussels service.

 

[Ian99]

I didn't know DB had punctuality problems! I didn't put the itinerary together myself - I just followed what the Dbahn site said...

Hopefully the 20minute connection, from Eurostar to the ICE at Brussels will be okay...

 

[30907]

I didn't know DB had punctuality problems! I didn't put the itinerary together myself - I just followed what the Dbahn site said...

Hopefully the 20minute connection, from Eurostar to the ICE at Brussels will be okay...

Both connections should work, but if not, you get the next train just as in the UK (next ICE in Brussels, as Thalys won't play!). If in doubt, get the on board staff to endorse the ticket. And don't forget to claim delay repay from DB!
A delay won't matter too much, as I assume you are travelling on by the sleeper, or by day train next day?
If the sleeper, you can book up to 6 people online at oebb.at (in English), and as they operate the train, that will give you the best price too.
If using the day train, I would strongly recommend leaving Munich early (0832) and taking the much more scenic Garmisch route to Innsbruck, have a couple of hours to explore the city and then enjoy a late lunch in the ÖBB car. You should be able to book with DB or Trainline, but will have to split. ÖBB can book all 6 of you on the direct train.

 

[Ian99]

Thanks 30907. We are going to stay overnight and travel onwards the next day. I'd not read anything about there being a better route from Munich to Innsbruck but guess the alternative journey would be:

München Hbf Gl.27-36 dep 08:32 27 RB 5413
Innsbruck HbfInnsbruck Hbf arr 11:23

Transfer time 2:01 h

Innsbruck Hbf dep 13:24 EC 87
Venezia Santa Lucia arr 18:10

Otherwise, it's

München Hbf dep 11:34 13
Venezia Santa Lucia arr 18:10

So we spend an hour extra travelling so we get 2 hours in Innsbruck or 3 hours in Munich....

Is the Garmish route similar in scenery to that which we will see on the rest of the journey around the Brenner Pass?

How does Munich compare to Innsbruck?

 

[30907]

Thanks 30907. We are going to stay overnight and travel onwards the next day. I'd not read anything about there being a better route from Munich to Innsbruck but guess the alternative journey would be:

München Hbf Gl.27-36 dep 08:32 27 RB 5413
Innsbruck HbfInnsbruck Hbf arr 11:23

Transfer time 2:01 h

Innsbruck Hbf dep 13:24 EC 87
Venezia Santa Lucia arr 18:10

Otherwise, it's

München Hbf dep 11:34 13
Venezia Santa Lucia arr 18:10

So we spend an hour extra travelling so we get 2 hours in Innsbruck or 3 hours in Munich....

Is the Garmish route similar in scenery to that which we will see on the rest of the journey around the Brenner Pass?

How does Munich compare to Innsbruck?

That's exactly what my wife and I did a few years back (except for the restaurant car, which fell victim to a German hotel breakfast!).

The Garmisch route has classic lake (Starnberger See) and mountain scenery, mostly single track, ending with a steep winding descent down the Inn valley wall (like the historic Loetschberg route into Brig, if you know Switzerland). The Brenner is actually higher but doesn't somehow feel it.

However, it is now EMU stock throughout, and that might be a factor. Munich- Innsbruck on the main line is unspectacular (and partly underground), but you have the advantage of not changing.

I don't know Munich at all, but it is a much bigger city and I think an evening plus a morning won't do it justice. Innsbruck is much more compact, and the location is spectacular, though you will only have time for the city centre.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Innsbruck makes for a good short break between trains.
There are good shops inside the station if the weather is bad, with plenty of nice cafes in the local area and places to restock.
You can also view the Olympic ski-jumps straight off the western platform end, with high hills all around, with lots of snow (too much today, it seems).
The scenery from Garmisch to Mittenwald and on to Seefeld is spectacular (Zugspitze, Wetterstein and Karwendel ranges).

Munich is big and crowded, and the Hbf is well to the west of the historic centre.
You can use the S-bahn for a stop or two to save walking, as it passes under the city centre. Marienplatz is probably the best S-bahn stop for the sights.
Munich wins on impressive buildings, but Innsbruck has a lot of Alpine character, and has the more scenic setting.

 

[43096]

Thanks 30907. We are going to stay overnight and travel onwards the next day. I'd not read anything about there being a better route from Munich to Innsbruck but guess the alternative journey would be:

München Hbf Gl.27-36 dep 08:32 27 RB 5413
Innsbruck HbfInnsbruck Hbf arr 11:23

Transfer time 2:01 h

Innsbruck Hbf dep 13:24 EC 87
Venezia Santa Lucia arr 18:10

Otherwise, it's

München Hbf dep 11:34 13
Venezia Santa Lucia arr 18:10

So we spend an hour extra travelling so we get 2 hours in Innsbruck or 3 hours in Munich....

Is the Garmish route similar in scenery to that which we will see on the rest of the journey around the Brenner Pass?

How does Munich compare to Innsbruck?

There is an alternative that gives you an hour extra in Munich and still gives you a two hour break in Innsbruck.

EC85 runs two hours ahead of EC87 and actually overtakes RB5413: dep Munich 0934, arr Innsbruck 1118. You get the bonus that it is a "proper" locomotive hauled train formed of Austrian loco (Taurus type) and stock.

 

[30907]

EC85 runs two hours ahead of EC87 and actually overtakes RB5413: dep Munich 0934, arr Innsbruck 1118. You get the bonus that it is a "proper" locomotive hauled train formed of Austrian loco (Taurus type) and stock.

EC85 and EC87 are booked identical formations.

 

[Ian99]

I'm not sure I follow that but thanks....

 

[30907]

I'm not sure I follow that but thanks....

Sorry for jargon. Meaning that both trains mentioned have the same type of loco and coaches.

 

[Ian99]

There is an alternative that gives you an hour extra in Munich and still gives you a two hour break in Innsbruck.

EC85 runs two hours ahead of EC87 and actually overtakes RB5413: dep Munich 0934, arr Innsbruck 1118. You get the bonus that it is a "proper" locomotive hauled train formed of Austrian loco (Taurus type) and stock.

Thanks for that thought - presumably however this goes the less attractive route? Might still be worth doing though.

 

[EAD]

Morning everyone. I had tapped out a message the other day but see it did not post. Just throwing my 2 cents worth in here on routes. I say this as someone who has family in Tirol and has regularly used the Munich-Italy EC trains over the years since being a child.

I agree the Karwendl route over Garmisch/Mittenwald and down to Innsbruck has great lovely scenery in particular the decent into the Inn valley, but given it no longer has any long distance through trains (there used to be German IC pair [118/119] that went that way to Innsbruck until the late 90s from memory) I would not necessarily recommend it for a through journey with family. Of course if you have the time and wish to see it then please go this way and change at Innsbruck.

I do think the mainline is being talked down a little here - scenery is subjective of course but it certainly beats my daily SW London commute. To give an idea though, from Munich to Rosenheim you are skirt round the foothills in Upper Bavaria (through Grafing and Aßling), though yes not in the spectacular category but nice enough with glimpses of some old farms and typical villages by the line side. At Rosenheim you turn into the Inn valley itself which essentially sees you in a wide valley with the Alps starting and rising/closing in the nearer in you get to Innsbruck. The new Inn valley route for capacity/speed is indeed mainly in tunnel but as the EC trains call at Wörgl and Jenbach they essentially take the old route. This is a view from Jenbach to give you an idea https://goo.gl/images/BZBM6v

Of course the Brenner route itself is a climb up a mountain pass and has many well known photo spots including the horseshoe at St. Jodok - image here to give an idea showing one of the EC trains https://goo.gl/images/2adZBJ.

Like I say just my 2 cents - whichever way you go I am sure you will have an enjoyable journey.

 

[Ian99]

Thanks for your input - do you know roughly how long the faster train spends in tunnels on its way to Innsbruck? My memory of some train journeys south of Genoa in Italy for example is of what seemed like many tunnels.

 

[EAD]

Thanks for your input - do you know roughly how long the faster train spends in tunnels on its way to Innsbruck? My memory of some train journeys south of Genoa in Italy for example is of what seemed like many tunnels.

I can't recall if they do use the new route (normally I am in the lower Inn valley and use the local trains up to Innsbruck), but assuming yes then they will only use it between Jenbach and Innsbruck as the other stops mean they cannot use the rest of route. An overview is here https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neue_Unterinntalbahn. If you look at the line diagram, then after Jenbach you would join the new route at Stans junction and leave it again at Fritzens-Wattens 2. That is essentially all in a tunnel (15Km in the Terfnertunnel). A video going the other way is here:

Have a look at around 8:10 (Fritzens-Wattens 2 junction) and then 15:00 when it crosses back to the old line to serve Jenbach at Stans.

Also this open map is useful showing the route: https://www.openrailwaymap.org/?lan...lon=11.821632385253904&zoom=11&style=standard

 

[30907]

I can't recall if they do use the new route (normally I am in the lower Inn valley and use the local trains up to Innsbruck), but assuming yes then they will only use it between Jenbach and Innsbruck as the other stops mean they cannot use the rest of route. An overview is here https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neue_Unterinntalbahn. If you look at the line diagram, then after Jenbach you would join the new route at Stans junction and leave it again at Fritzens-Wattens 2. That is essentially all in a tunnel (15Km in the Terfnertunnel).

That's what EC165 Transalpin (the Zurich-Graz train) did when I used it 18 months ago. The tunnel section was what struck me, and the valley floor bit from Jenbach to Wörgl passed me by, I suppose because compared with the rest it is unspectacular. Sorry if I misled.
There's a fair bit in tunnel on the Italian side of the Brenner, but there's not much you can do about it!