Multiple Steam Workings - How Does it Work?

[whhistle]

I may have things wrong here but after watching a programme about Australian Railways I wondered how multiple running works with steam.

I get diesels and electrics are "connected" so the rear loco is simply motive power (?), but I guess this can't happen with steam?

So does they just try and match their speeds as best they can?

 

[Pigeon]

Basically, yes. Pretty well any book of driver's or fireman's reminiscences is likely to contain an anecdote illustrating the deficiencies of the method.

 

[jopsuk]

As you say it'll be hard, but is there much indication for the crew on the second locomotive as to whether the coupling between the two was under tension or slack? Ideally you always want it tight, otherwise the lead loco is not contributing, or worse, being pushed!

And were any ever equipped with any sort of communication device? After all, for branchline work there were driving carriages built

 

[swt_passenger]

As you say it'll be hard, but is there much indication for the crew on the second locomotive as to whether the coupling between the two was under tension or slack? Ideally you always want it tight, otherwise the lead loco is not contributing, or worse, being pushed!

And were any ever equipped with any sort of communication device? After all, for branchline work there were driving carriages built

I think the communication device was the loco whistles.

 

[GrimShady]

This must have been hard to manage.

 

[Bornin1980s]

I think the communication device was the loco whistles.

I think the autocoaches used an electric bell code, similar to signalling equipment.

 

[Bedpan]

So does they just try and match their speeds as best they can?

This made me smile, the thought of two locos double heading but travelling at different speeds.

As you say it'll be hard, but is there much indication for the crew on the second locomotive as to whether the coupling between the two was under tension or slack? Ideally you always want it tight, otherwise the lead loco is not contributing, or worse, being pushed!

And were any ever equipped with any sort of communication device? After all, for branchline work there were driving carriages built

They used whistle codesand/or hand signals when necessary. Also, the leading loco was responsible for braking , and I assume that when the brakes were applied, this would show up on the brake vacuum gauge on the following engine.

I'm not sure whether it mattered if the couplings were tight or not. For example, if I was riding a tandem with my missus, I wouldn't necessarily expect us both to put in the same amount of pedal power, but any effort she did put in would make it easier for me to maintain speed. It was not abnormal for one or other of the locos to do most if not all of the work for some of the time just as cyclists on a tandem could take it in turns to put more effort into the pedalling.

 

[jopsuk]

I'm not sure whether it mattered if the couplings were tight or not. For example, if I was riding a tandem with my missus, I wouldn't necessarily expect us both to put in the same amount of pedal power, but any effort she did put in would make it easier for me to maintain speed. It was not abnormal for one or other of the locos to do most if not all of the work for some of the time just as cyclists on a tandem could take it in turns to put more effort into the pedalling.

But it's not like a tandem, where you're both putting in force into the same drive train, and it doesn't matter if the force applied is different- it's more like a tug of war. If the rope between you and the bloke behind is slack, he's not pulling at all! And if in a double headed the train the coupling between the locos goes into compression, the rear loco is not just hauling the train on it's own, it's shoving (a bit) the front loco.

 

[edwin_m]

I think it would be a combination of whistles and route knowledge. From their knowledge of the route the drivers would know pretty well where to apply power and I guess would have been able to tell by looking at the other loco's chimney whether the regulator was open. As mentioned the front driver would be responsible for braking and the one behind would then shut off steam (or could apply the brake themselves in emergency).

 

[Pigeon]

I think the autocoaches used an electric bell code, similar to signalling equipment.

Not sure about that. They had a mechanical linkage for the regulator and a chain for the whistle, but I don't think there was a connection for a bell wire. The fireman knew what the driver was doing from the movement of the regulator and the brake vacuum gauge, and he was expected to operate the reverser based on that information, as well as his normal duties.

At least, that's how the GWR ones worked; those of other companies may have been different, but I'm only vaguely aware of their existence so can't comment.

 

[randyrippley]

Not sure about that. They had a mechanical linkage for the regulator and a chain for the whistle, but I don't think there was a connection for a bell wire. The fireman knew what the driver was doing from the movement of the regulator and the brake vacuum gauge, and he was expected to operate the reverser based on that information, as well as his normal duties.

At least, that's how the GWR ones worked; those of other companies may have been different, but I'm only vaguely aware of their existence so can't comment.

the GWR autocoaches had a bell on the cab front, but that was a warning bell as the coaches had no steam supply for a whistle.

 

[martin butler]

Auto coaches, some used a bell and pully, others used a mechanical system that enables the driver to operate the regulator and brake from the drivers position in the auto coach, just the fireman was on the steam loco, the bell system was to tell the fireman to open/ close the regulator, open / close the reverser the brake was often controlled from the cab by the brake handle its not easy to describe in full how auto train working was done, on Double heading, the lead engine controls the brake, and the train engine will match it but the lead engine is in control the driver will be the one who will decide when to open the regulator, or to brake, the train engine will copy his direction, drivers would give hand signals to each other , as well as whistle, but often both knew the road to anticipate where you would need to brake, stopping distances you had to be careful with whistles because, they are also used to warn signal boxes and station staff of an problem, there was a system of whistled codes, that railwaymen knew and on hearing one of these would warn the station down the line and signal boxes if it mean I have a major problem, such as i'm out of water, or the trains running away and pushing me, I can't stop .

 

[edwin_m]

The LMS push-pull coaches used a vacuum system, presumably something like a second brake pipe with a valve in the remote cab, operating the regulator via a cylinder on the loco.