Multiple intentional fare evasions - Southeastern

[Stinkmeiner]

Perhaps you should wonder what harm writing again will do you. Do they care? I don't know, but why should they?

I am genuinely curious if they even received the letter. Is it supposed to show up in the court summons?

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I think the advice on here is to keep asking for out of court settlement - ie write again and plead your case with them. Even if you have the court summons now.

There have been other cases on here some while back with South Eastern IIRC where this worked.

And then also being prepared to go to court on the day, find the prosecutor ahead of the case being scheduled, and ask them for the same thing (a chance to settle).

Is it worth hiring a solicitor for this? I contacted one for advice when I received the initial letter.

 

[WesternLancer]

I have to wonder what good it'll do me. The fact that they didn't even make a passing reference to my letter would seem to indicate that they just don't care at all.

Well, they have something of an incentive to settle out of court in theory, because the railway gets to retain the sum they settle for. That does not happen with the court fine.

But it's up to you.

These things will be done by standard letter. They won't spend time writing back about what you wrote. You apologised, but you didn't ask to settle out of court, so maybe they did not offer. I'd give it a go. But no one is forcing you of course.

 

[Stinkmeiner]

Well, they have something of an incentive to settle out of court in theory, because the railway gets to retain the sum they settle for. That does not happen with the court fine.

But it's up to you.

These things will be done by standard letter. They won't spend time writing back about what you wrote. You apologised, but you didn't ask to settle out of court, so maybe they did not offer. I'd give it a go. But no one is forcing you of course.

That's the thing, I actually did offer to settle out of court and pay any amount they thought was fair in my initial letter. I just got off the phone with a solicitor and apparently Southeastern has a history of not really reading or acknowledging these letters anyway.

 

[Hadders]

They aren't required to reply to or give a commentary on teh letters they receive. They are within their rights to go straight to a summons.

It might be worth seeking out the prosecutor on the day in advance of the hearing and seeing if you can come to a settlement.

 

[WesternLancer]

That's the thing, I actually did offer to settle out of court and pay any amount they thought was fair in my initial letter. I just got off the phone with a solicitor and apparently Southeastern has a history of not really reading or acknowledging these letters anyway.

My apols - I thought you said you had not asked but on reading up thread the draft of your letter to them I see you did make that offer.

Is it worth hiring a solicitor for this? I contacted one for advice when I received the initial letter.

It's not necessary is the general advice given on here - BUT we do see a fair few cases where people have engaged solicitors and have got a positive outcomes even in cases that look, on the face of it - pretty hopeless. So I guess it depends on if you feel paying the legal fees they will charge is worth it to get the outcome you want, or to improve your chances of getting that outcome. Which if that has a bearing on say a future job offer in the USA etc may be well worth it to you.

I suspect the railway company treat letters from solicitors quite seriously, not because it means that they will definitely loose in court, but as it shows you are taking the whole thing seriously enough to engage one. They might read it in full at least....

I have no connection with them, nor ever used them, but this firm has been mentioned on here in the past as having got good outcomes for people - you could ring for a quote:

Fare Evasion - Penman Sedgwick

penmansedgwick.com

Good luck with things.

 

[Stinkmeiner]

They aren't required to reply to or give a commentary on teh letters they receive. They are within their rights to go straight to a summons.

It might be worth seeking out the prosecutor on the day in advance of the hearing and seeing if you can come to a settlement.

Again though, is that something to do alone or is it worth seeking out a solicitor to help me?

 

[Hadders]

Again though, is that something to do alone or is it worth seeking out a solicitor to help me?

This is not really my area of expertise. We have had reports on here of people agreeing a settlement with the prosecutor 'at the doors of the court'. I would have thought a solicitor acting on yor behalf would seek to engage with the train company or their counterpart acting for them before the day of the case.

 

[WesternLancer]

Again though, is that something to do alone or is it worth seeking out a solicitor to help me?

My hunch is the solicitor will make a strong go of getting an out of court settlement for you before the court date. If that fails they will then advise you of the best options / offer to represent you 'on the day'. I suspect being represented in person on the day would be a fair old extra costs in solicitors fees.

But on the cases we have had where people have
a) engaged a solicitor
b) fed back here on the outcome of their case

They have had success in getting out of court settlements. Sums of £400 to £600 have been mentioned in solicitors fees. Then on top of that is the cost of the settlement to be paid of course.

 

[skyhigh]

But on the cases we have had where people have
a) engaged a solicitor
b) fed back here on the outcome of their case

They have had success in getting out of court settlements. Sums of £400 to £600 have been mentioned in solicitors fees. Then on top of that is the cost of the settlement to be paid of course.

Though there's not been many cases on here which have involved significant levels of evasion - in this case we're looking at around 35 return trips (over 3 months, 2-3 times a week) - and where a full and frank admission of this has been made in writing to the train company. I really think even a solicitor will struggle to get a settlement, though clearly I am not a solicitor.

 

[Stinkmeiner]

Though there's not been many cases on here which have involved significant levels of evasion - in this case we're looking at around 35 return trips (over 3 months, 2-3 times a week) - and where a full and frank admission of this has been made in writing to the train company. I really think even a solicitor will struggle to get a settlement, though clearly I am not a solicitor.

The ones I've spoken to so far have all said they're fairly confident they could get an out of court settlement, but they may just be trying to get me to cash a cheque.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 5 Sep 2022 ==

My hunch is the solicitor will make a strong go of getting an out of court settlement for you before the court date. If that fails they will then advise you of the best options / offer to represent you 'on the day'. I suspect being represented in person on the day would be a fair old extra costs in solicitors fees.

But on the cases we have had where people have
a) engaged a solicitor
b) fed back here on the outcome of their case

They have had success in getting out of court settlements. Sums of £400 to £600 have been mentioned in solicitors fees. Then on top of that is the cost of the settlement to be paid of course.

I'd be happy to pay around £400-600 for a guarantee of no criminal prosecution, honestly.

 

[WesternLancer]

Though there's not been many cases on here which have involved significant levels of evasion - in this case we're looking at around 35 return trips (over 3 months, 2-3 times a week) - and where a full and frank admission of this has been made in writing to the train company. I really think even a solicitor will struggle to get a settlement, though clearly I am not a solicitor.

I can recall a handfull of persistent evaders on here since 2020 that have had settlements (and one with south eastern comes to mind) - so i think every chance.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 5 Sep 2022 ==

The ones I've spoken to so far have all said they're fairly confident they could get an out of court settlement, but they may just be trying to get me to cash a cheque.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 5 Sep 2022 ==


I'd be happy to pay around £400-600 for a guarantee of no criminal prosecution, honestly.

I'd get a few quotes. Try the one I linked to for a quote as they do at least have a track record and have been mentioned on here. I'm sure any that you ring will claim they can do it - but as you say you can't be sure what their track record is (tho I guess you can ask when seeking a quote eg 'how many fare evasion cases have you handled over the last 12 months and how many have you secured out of court settlements for?').

Not sure that any could 'guarantee' no prosecution however, as it would seem that you have effectively already admitted to this evasion which means that if they want to prosecute, they can win. I'm not a solicitor but it may be that a solicitor would have said 'well if you had asked for my help before you initially replied I would have written it differently' but that is water under the bridge of course.

But good luck - I still think you have a chance.

 

[Stinkmeiner]

I can recall a handfull of persistent evaders on here since 2020 that have had settlements (and one with south eastern comes to mind) - so i think every chance.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 5 Sep 2022 ==


I'd get a few quotes. Try the one I linked to for a quote as they do at least have a track record and have been mentioned on here. I'm sure any that you ring will claim they can do it - but as you say you can't be sure what their track record is (tho I guess you can ask when seeking a quote eg 'how many fare evasion cases have you handled over the last 12 months and how many have you secured out of court settlements for?').

Not sure that any could 'guarantee' no prosecution however, as it would seem that you have effectively already admitted to this evasion which means that if they want to prosecute, they can win. I'm not a solicitor but it may be that a solicitor would have said 'well if you had asked for my help before you initially replied I would have written it differently' but that is water under the bridge of course.

But good luck - I still think you have a chance.

Thanks for the well wishes. I'll see about my options and report the results after my court date.

 

[Stinkmeiner]

Got a guy who managed to reach an out of court settlement in a matter of days. Paid slightly more than I would have, but as far as I'm concerned it was worth it to get this all out of the way. Certainly learned my lesson, but I'm glad I won't have to get bent over a barrel just to make a point.

 

[WesternLancer]

Got a guy who managed to reach an out of court settlement in a matter of days. Paid slightly more than I would have, but as far as I'm concerned it was worth it to get this all out of the way. Certainly learned my lesson, but I'm glad I won't have to get bent over a barrel just to make a point.

Thanks for update - that sounds like a good outcome for you given the views you have set out previously and your desire to get this sorted.

It may be of help to future site readers if you felt able to say roughly / ball park what you paid for legal help (and even to name the firm if you felt the service was good as others on here do often ask about getting legal help and where to get it) - but of course fully understand if you do not feel able to do that.

 

[Teddytantan1]

Got a guy who managed to reach an out of court settlement in a matter of days. Paid slightly more than I would have, but as far as I'm concerned it was worth it to get this all out of the way. Certainly learned my lesson, but I'm glad I won't have to get bent over a barrel just to make a point.

Just curious how do they find out that you used cheaper tickets? I don't think that the tickets have got your name on it?
When you were questioned by a rail staff did they not give you a panelty fare notice but went straight to prosecution?

 

[Dai Corner]

Just curious how do they find out that you used cheaper tickets? I don't think that the tickets have got your name on it?
When you were questioned by a rail staff did they not give you a panelty fare notice but went straight to prosecution?

If they bought the tickets online the investigators can obtain their purchase history.

 

[30907]

When you were questioned by a rail staff did they not give you a panelty fare notice but went straight to prosecution?

A PF is for straightforward errors such as failing to buy a ticket (as your own thread confirms). Any form of short-faring, which the OP has mentioned, if discovered or suspected, is likely to lead to further investigation and potentially prosecution.