Multiple 755s on London to Norwich?

[321362]

I can see that today, 9P46 1700 London Liverpool Street to Norwich and a few others are formed of 2x 755/4 and 1x 755/3 for a total length of 11 carriages.

How common are 755 formations into Liverpool Street as opposed to 745s?

 

[stadler]

I can see that today, 9P46 1700 London Liverpool Street to Norwich and a few others are formed of 2x 755/4 and 1x 755/3 for a total length of 11 carriages.

How common are 755 formations into Liverpool Street as opposed to 745s?

It is very common now. I think there is even a booked working daily return nowadays. They use all sorts of formations but three 755s coupled as a 9 or 10 or 11 coach train seems to be the most common.

 

[hexagon789]

I can see that today, 9P46 1700 London Liverpool Street to Norwich and a few others are formed of 2x 755/4 and 1x 755/3 for a total length of 11 carriages.

How common are 755 formations into Liverpool Street as opposed to 745s?

There are three booked 755 services each way on London/Norwich IIRC.

 

[86246]

The daily diagram would normally be the 10:00, 15:00 and 20:00 from Liverpool Street. There was disruption following an incident this morning which has meant that it was on the 17:00 this evening. A week or so ago there was an additional diagram with 755s for a couple of days.

 

[ChilliSauce]

On Monday last the 12.00 from Liverpool Street to Norwich was this concoction of trains.

The tea trolley was announced as being in the front unit . A unit which is only really relevant to anyone travelling all the way to Norwich. .. i.e. Why would anyone wish to go travel in the front unit for exit at intermediate stations?

And those with 1st Class tickets again let down on what should be an Intercity Type service

 

[Royston Vasey]

On Monday last the 12.00 from Liverpool Street to Norwich was this concoction of trains.

The tea trolley was announced as being in the front unit . A unit which is only really relevant to anyone travelling all the way to Norwich. .. i.e. Why would anyone wish to go travel in the front unit for exit at intermediate stations?

And those with 1st Class tickets again let down on what should be an Intercity Type service

They are quite reliably planned in advance as Standard Class only and they don't sell First Class itineraries or advances against them. From a quick check, I cannot buy a First Class ticket for the 0730, 1132, 1200, 1232, 1630 1730 tomorrow and RTT lists them as Standard Class Only. Which seems more than unusual, admittedly! I remember the 0730 always being planned as 755s.

 

[transportphoto]

This topic has been discussed at great length previously.

The tea trolley was announced as being in the front unit . A unit which is only really relevant to anyone travelling all the way to Norwich. .. i.e. Why would anyone wish to go travel in the front unit for exit at intermediate stations?

Trolleys can switch between units at Colchester however may remain static if units are particularly busy (cited from @dk1 quoted below.)

Someone may wish to travel in the front unit for intermediate stations because that’s where the trolley is, or perhaps because they don’t mind a small double back walk on arrival, or for a seat because the rear two units are busier.

Colchester is the only official location where trolleys move between units.

They do static on the triple traction if too full which is a good deal of the time these days on certain services.

And those with 1st Class tickets again let down on what should be an Intercity Type service

For which Greater Anglia will offer their apologies and a refund in the difference between the cost of the First Class and Standard tickets. The standard class facility is exactly the same on a 745 as it is a 755 - a high quality train. Let’s remember the not too distant past where the substitute was a 321. (This paragraph relevant to on the day substitutions; planned triple-traction and planned allocation of Stansted sets do not advertise First Class.)

 

[40029 Saxonia]

A year or two ago there were two daily sets of 755s diagrammed on Norwich - Liverpool St services. Whenever I've seen them the sets have been 2 x 4 car plus 1 x 3 car.

Allocations are in Real Time Trains

Interestingly 755331 was in Wembley Yard today

 

[stadler]

Are there still any 745/1 sets (the Stansted Express units) booked on the London to Norwich and Norwich to London services? I know i have seen it before but i am not sure if it is booked or just last minute substitutions?

 

[RailWonderer]

Are there still any 745/1 sets (the Stansted Express units) booked on the London to Norwich and Norwich to London services? I know i have seen it before but i am not sure if it is booked or just last minute substitutions?

I had one recently which was booked as a 745/0. The 1930 off Liverpool St today is also meant to be a 745/0 but operated by 745 105. They can also be seen on the 755 diagrams (since they both don't have first class or a buffet) or on 745/0 diagrams but if used on the latter they have to obviously part refund first class ticket holders. Not sure if there is any booked specifically for 745/1 though.

 

[1D54]

Shows how lucky GA is to have units spare to be able to work in multiple to Liverpool St without hitting local services in the Norwich area etc.

 

[Class 170101]

Are there still any 745/1 sets (the Stansted Express units) booked on the London to Norwich and Norwich to London services? I know i have seen it before but i am not sure if it is booked or just last minute substitutions?

There are Norwich Intercity services booked with 745/1s to allow for maintenance at Crown Point (Norwich).

 

[Adrian1980uk]

There are Norwich Intercity services booked with 745/1s to allow for maintenance at Crown Point (Norwich).

I know certainly the 19:00 from Liverpool Street is booked as 745/1.

As said above they do not sell first class on these booked services, but they regularly turn up on services booked for 750/0s and as the sets age it will become more frequent I would guess.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Jan 2026 ==

Shows how lucky GA is to have units spare to be able to work in multiple to Liverpool St without hitting local services in the Norwich area etc.

After May's timetable change there will be fewer spare, as regional services have increased. Begs the question of a long term plan

 

[Kite159]

After Mays timetable change there will be less spare as regional services have increased, begs the question of a long term plan

No doubt more 720s (where I believe they have a surplus due to various pre Covid timetable enhancements being ditched) being used on Stansted Connect services with the 745/1s being used more for the London - Norwich services.

 

[Adrian1980uk]

No doubt more 720s (where I believe they have a surplus due to various pre Covid timetable enhancements being ditched) being used on Stansted Connect services with the 745/1s being used more for the London - Norwich services.

Unfortunately that will probably be the case, especially if they find they need extra peak services (not there yet but not far off), I can think of very few large organisations who would go down that route, look how much Tesco / MacDonalds spend on making the stores the same / consistent product.

 

[williamn]

Consistency is everything with both first class provision and catering. If you can't rely on it being there you won't chance it in future.

 

[stadler]

I have just gone through the unit diagrams and there are actually lots of London to Norwich and Norwich to London services not worked by 745/0 units. Eight journeys a day in each direction on Monday to Friday. Seven journeys a day in each direction on Saturday. Two journeys a day in each direction on Sunday.

This is the full list below of all of the booked 745/1 and 755 operated journeys on the London to Norwich route.

---

MONDAY TO FRIDAY - NORTHBOUND:
09:00 London to Norwich 10:46 - 745/1
10:00 London to Norwich 11:46 - 755/3+755/4+755/4
11:30 London to Norwich 13:18 - 745/1
14:00 London to Norwich 15:45 - 745/1
15:00 London to Norwich 16:46 - 755/3+755/4+755/4
16:30 London to Norwich 18:18 - 745/1
19:00 London to Norwich 20:47 - 745/1
20:00 London to Norwich 21:49 - 755/3+755/4+755/4

MONDAY TO FRIDAY - SOUTHBOUND:
06:30 Norwich to London 08:24 - 745/1
07:30 Norwich to London 09:25 - 755/3+755/4+755/4
11:32 Norwich to London 13:17 - 745/1
12:00 Norwich to London 13:47 - 745/1
12:32 Norwich to London 14:17 - 755/3+755/4+755/4
14:00 Norwich to London 15:47 - 745/1
16:30 Norwich to London 18:21 - 745/1
17:30 Norwich to London 19:17 - 755/3+755/4+755/4

SATURDAY - NORTHBOUND:
09:00 London to Norwich 10:46 - 745/1
10:00 London to Norwich 11:44 - 755/3+755/4+755/4
14:00 London to Norwich 15:45 - 745/1
15:00 London to Norwich 16:44 - 755/3+755/4+755/4
16:30 London to Norwich 18:19 - 745/1
19:00 London to Norwich 20:33 - 745/1
20:00 London to Norwich 21:44 - 755/3+755/4+755/4

SATURDAY - SOUTHBOUND:
06:32 Norwich to London 08:17 - 745/1
07:32 Norwich to London 09:17 - 755/3+755/4+755/4
11:32 Norwich to London 13:17 - 745/1
12:00 Norwich to London 13:47 - 745/1
12:32 Norwich to London 14:17 - 755/3+755/4+755/4
16:32 Norwich to London 18:17 - 745/1
17:30 Norwich to London 19:17 - 755/3+755/4+755/4

SUNDAY - NORTHBOUND:
11:30 London to Norwich 13:17 - 745/1
16:30 London to Norwich 18:17 - 745/1

SUNDAY - SOUTHBOUND:
09:00 Norwich to London 10:47 - 745/1
14:00 Norwich to London 15:47 - 745/1

---

I believe the London to Stansted route also has some booked 745/0 workings. The first class is declassified on these services. Plus there is also now quite a few booked 720 workings on these London to Stansted services too.

Before the days of the flirts i remember there used to be 317/321/322 workings on the Norwich to London trains. Very occassionally the 150/153/156/170 trains even worked Norwich to London trains. Of course you also had the booked 170 until 2010 on the old London to Lowestoft and London to Peterborough services. So i guess the use of 745/1 and 755 trains on Norwich to London is not that odd. The route has had a lot of variety over the years.

I am surprised they have never cleared the 720 to operate the Norwich to London trains. Right up until the flirts were introduced there was always a once a day in each direction booked 321 working so i always presumed the 720 would replace that. But then again the 360 was never cleared to Norwich either but did operate the once a day in each direction Stowmarket terminator.

Another oddity on the London to Norwich route is that these are currently the only four trains on the GA network where the guard despatches and operates doors:

10:30 Norwich to London 12:17 (MO to FR only)
11:30 London to Norwich 13:18 (MO to FR only)
14:00 London to Norwich 15:45 (MO to FR only)
15:00 Norwich to London 16:51 (MO to FR only)

I believe it is done to maintain platform dispatcher competency in guard despatch and maintain guard competency in despatch and door operation in case of a camera failure.

 

[Shwam3]

I am surprised they have never cleared the 720 to operate the Norwich to London trains.

They are cleared, it's just that the policy is to send the 720 to Stansted and swap the freed 745 to Norwich instead.

 

[stadler]

They are cleared, it's just that the policy is to send the 720 to Stansted and swap the freed 745 to Norwich instead.

Yes the 720 are cleared and went to Norwich on test but GA have zero guards who sign both the 720 and the Ipswich to Norwich section. So in reality it would be impossible for a 720 to go to Norwich in passenger service. The section from Ipswich to Norwich requires a guard but no guard signs both that and the 720 units. This was the same issue with the 360 units. They had cleared the 360 to Norwich but zero guards signed both the 360 and the Stowmarket to Norwich section meaning they could not go there.

 

[greataj]

Surely there's a point some 720's need refurbing to 2+2 seating. As to whether that's Stansted or Norwich trains that should see those, there's arguments both ways.

Norwich would be problematic because of first class provision and buffet service. Stansted operationally benefits more with the 745's platform level boarding and flexibility of movement throughout the train, simply by the sheer number of passengers. At Tottenham Hale, staff can be tedious by urging people to go to the front of the train, since the rear section fills up at Liverpool St. But still many people will ignore that and invariably end up walking through to the front section for seats once onboard.

Nonetheless, I would probably have refurbed 720's with 2+2 seating and added luggage space doing some Stansted Express runs and preferably booking those only on services that have the added Stansted Mountfitchet calls, purely for consistency of service. That should be workable as it's generally now the same train that calls at Stansted Mountfitchet both going into and out of Stansted Airport.

 

[185143]

A guard told me a couple of years ago it was planned for 720s to pick up the old Norwich 321 diagram but thankfully (in both our opinions!) It never happened.

I had a 745/1 Manningtree-London last week, it was the train that connected off the ex Harwich train from the ferry. Very pleasantly surprised to see a trolley service to partook in a beer.

 

[dk1]

Plenty of 745/1s are used on Norwich-Liverpool St services. As for 720s neither Norwich or Ipswich drivers sign them. Colchester (GE) drivers are not permitted to sign the Norwich route north of Haughley Jcn so they cannot be used which only leaves Liverpool St (AR) drivers. It has been stated already for conductors in post #19. Far more practical in times of Stadler shortage to draught 720s onto the Stansted Express.

 

[nw1]

I have just gone through the unit diagrams and there are actually lots of London to Norwich and Norwich to London services not worked by 745/0 units. Eight journeys a day in each direction on Monday to Friday. Seven journeys a day in each direction on Saturday. Two journeys a day in each direction on Sunday.

This is the full list below of all of the booked 745/1 and 755 operated journeys on the London to Norwich route.

---

MONDAY TO FRIDAY - NORTHBOUND:
09:00 London to Norwich 10:46 - 745/1
10:00 London to Norwich 11:46 - 755/3+755/4+755/4
11:30 London to Norwich 13:18 - 745/1
14:00 London to Norwich 15:45 - 745/1
15:00 London to Norwich 16:46 - 755/3+755/4+755/4
16:30 London to Norwich 18:18 - 745/1
19:00 London to Norwich 20:47 - 745/1
20:00 London to Norwich 21:49 - 755/3+755/4+755/4

Interesting that the slightly (by 2-3 mins!) faster xx00s see two non-first-class diagrams out of 5, versus just one for the xx30. I'm not sure but I'd guess the xx30 makes one more stop?