MSE TicketySplit Advanced - beta

[MSEAdam]

Hi All,

Last year we released our TicketySplit app helping people in identifying split ticket opportunities for walk-on fares.

Since then we've been working on producing the same functionality for advance fares. This has been a big undertaking, but we've now got to the stage where we can release a beta website supporting advanced split ticketing for single fares.

We're taking the roll-out of this tool very slowly as we have various technical challenges to look after. But, as with our previous release (http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=64661&page=3) we're hoping that we can pool the talents of those here to give us feedback on where we're at:

http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/split-cheap-train-tickets/

Many thanks for your time,
MSE Adam

 

[alex17595]

when you have a railcard selected on a train before 10am it shows the £12 minimum fare regardless of whether the non discounted fare is cheaper.

 

[MSEAdam]

Thanks Alex, could you let me know your exact search so that I may investigate further?

Thanks,
MSE Adam

 

[Oscar]

Why can't I search returns?

We don't yet provide a specific split ticket search for returns. Firstly, this is because two singles are often (not always) cheaper, and secondly, well - it's a big job, and next on our list.

Returns are only sold as walk-up tickets and are usually cheaper than two walk-up singles. Returns usually cost only a few pence more than singles for Off-Peak tickets (except those priced by FGW), twice the single fare for long distance Anytime fare and slightly more than a single for shorter distance Anytime fare. There is one situation when two walk-up singles tend to be cheaper than a walk-up return: when there is a large peak/off-peak price differential (e.g. when travelling to/from London) and only one leg is off-peak, as the Anytime (Day) Single is usually only half the cost of the Anytime (Day) Return and the off-peak ticket costs much less. In the case of Advance tickets, the situation is much more clear-cut: two Advance singles are usually cheaper than a walk-up return, though mean reduced flexibility. Perhaps you could say "two singles are often cheaper if you can book in advance, otherwise a return is normally better value".

 

[Deerfold]

I'm a little worried that your preferred partner for selling tickets is TheTrainLine - one of the most expensive sources of tickets for rail travel in the UK.

I'm also curious how they've managed to work with you without breaking their agreements with ATOC.

I tried Halifax to Leicester using Firefox but had no results returned:

 

[MSEAdam]

Hi Deerfold,

Here's the text snippet from our find out more info blurb which I'm sure will help:

"Find out more

Building a split ticketing tool has been a far from straightforward path. After many years trying our first version could only cope with walk-on fares. Yet everyone wanted us to make it work with all ticket types, including advance deals.

The problem with that was simple: the huge number of ticket types and journeys meant a need for huge server computational power to do it. After much trying we figured out the only way we'd be able to make this happen was by working with a company that already interrogated the timetable and ticket prices because it sold them.

Again, finding that wasn't easy. Some train companies aren't best pleased about this tool, so it was a brave move for a ticketing body to agree to work with us.

Yet thetrainline.com decided to do it, and to provide the technology to speedily allow you to book the split selection through it. Of course, it has booking fees, which some others don't - that's why we provide you with the information so you can go elsewhere if you choose.

However, if you do go through to the thetrainline.com, that helps ensure that we will be able to continue to run this tool, as it provides an incentive for it to continue to partner with us, and we get a little back to help pay for this tool's running costs. And it's our hope you'll save you far more than the cost of the booking fee."

 

[bb21]

I don't think it is a major issue thetrainline are the partners. The information regarding booking fees and how to avoid them is clear, so if some people are happy to pay them, what is the problem?

Adam, does the split tool only check splits on the next journey opportunity?

 

[MSEAdam]

Hi bb21,

Thanks for the feedback.

Currently we pick the next suitable journey depending on the date and time requirements set by the user.

Adam

 

[tony_mac]

After my 5 searches - I can see it is not always producing the best splits, and there is at least one obvious serious flaw.

However, I have no particular desire to donate my free time to improve profits for large companies like moneysupermarket!

 

[Oscar]

I think bb21 may be referring to the next onward journey opportunity from the split point - this will often not have the cheapest fares.

 

[snail]

we've been working on producing the same functionality for advanced fares. This has been a big undertaking, but we've now got to the stage where we can release a beta website supporting advanced split ticketing for single fares.

Well, for a start it's worth understanding the difference between advance and advanced. The split ticketing may well be advanced (above average; clever) but the tickets themselves are Advance tickets (before the event). Trivial but important if you want it to look right.

 

[MSEAdam]

Hi Tony Mac,

Thanks for testing. We've removed the 5 search limit today to give people the time to test.

If you could share the flaws you've found, that'd be great.

Thanks,
MSE Adam
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Hi Oscar,

We keep the idea of splitting tickets simple so it's for the exact train journey requested - most of the time without the need to change trains.

We don't cover the possibility of picking later trains at the split point - but obviously people can make that call if they wish!

Adam
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Thanks snail - I'll get that changed!

Adam

 

[bb21]

We keep the idea of splitting tickets simple so it's for the exact train journey requested - most of the time without the need to change trains.

I think this is a good starting point. Whilst fairly straight forward, split-ticketing have restrictions. Bear in mind the audience profile on MSE (on average much less technical in terms of railway ticketing knowledge than forum members here), the simplest idea (ie. no change, therefore no confusion) is probably the best idea.

There is no reason why it cannot be improved in the future, but for now, an overly ambitious project with lots of functions would be much less manageable.

 

[Deerfold]

I don't think it is a major issue thetrainline are the partners. The information regarding booking fees and how to avoid them is clear, so if some people are happy to pay them, what is the problem?

Adam, does the split tool only check splits on the next journey opportunity?

I'm not sure it is obvious with the phrase used being:

We don't sell train tickets, so you'll need to use thetrainline.com to book them.

(my emphasis)

MSE also says:

You shouldn't notice any difference and the link will never negatively impact the product.

Surely having unavoidable additional fees which always make the purchase more expensive negatively impacts the product?


Just done a successful test (well, didn't find a split but did give me the fare and train times this time) - but the QC possibly needs redoing - there's no apostrophe in "ticket's".

 

[MSEAdam]

Hi Deerfold,

We try and help people to purchase split tickets, which, for the majority will be a daunting task the first time.

For example take a favourite journey of mine - Ipswich to Swindon - http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/split-cheap-train-tickets/results/52b19307b62c71.69760931

When clicking through to thetrainline we take people through each step required to get both tickets into their basket.

And also thanks for the typo spot, we'll fix that.

Adam

 

[Deerfold]

Hi Deerfold,

We try and help people to purchase split tickets, which, for the majority will be a daunting task the first time.

Adam

I appreciate that. However at the moment once you get your results it reads that you must use thetrainline to book them.

As you say your editorial line is never influenced by these links I was suprised by this wording (as opposed to e.g. "you can book them at thetrainline).

 

[bb21]

I'm not sure it is obvious with the phrase used being:

They do however make it very clear right next to the link to TTL on the results page,

You can book direct with the train company to avoid the booking fee. However, we can only offer this tool as thetrainline.com is our technology partner, and so buying tickets this way helps secure the tool's future.

and the amount of the booking fee is clearly displayed alongside the ticket price. I consider that quite sufficient warning.

I however agree that the phrase "so you'll need to use thetrainline.com" should be changed to "you can use thetrainline.com" or something similar.

 

[IanD]

Just did a quick search for Milton Keynes to Thurso for Monday 03/02 at or after 6am.

Full price ticket £149.90.

Tickety split reduces proudly informs me "Success! You can save £5.90 on this journey!
Milton Keynes Central to Thurso if you split at Aviemore"

However, with the RSH mixing deck, I can get a single advance for the whole trip for £36. I have to leave 2 hours earlier and have a break of 2 hours in Glasgow (around lunchtime so quite handy) and 2 hours in Inverness (around tea time so also quite handy) but to save a further £108 I'm prepared to do that.

 

[MSEAdam]

Thanks bb21 and Deerfold for your comments - it's an important area for us so I will feed back appropriately.

 

[Deerfold]

They do however make it very clear right next to the link to TTL

Indeed - with my first seach that didn't come up so I only saw the mesage at the bottom.

and the amount of the booking fee is clearly displayed alongside the ticket price. I consider that quite sufficient warning.

That *is* clearer than I had thought. Although it doesn't mention credit card or postage fees (which may well vary).

Lol - I've gone into the link now and I'm being offered a cheaper ticket than the tool offered (about 1/3 cheaper) - but I would have to leave 20 minutes later.

 

[Haywain]

If you want this to work, you need to make sure that you're suggesting fares that don't involve a change of class part way through a journey. And I presume that the "standard" fare coming up as 1st class is there to make the savings look better? A fairer comparison would be for the same class of travel.

 

[alex17595]

Thanks Alex, could you let me know your exact search so that I may investigate further?

Thanks,
MSE Adam

I tried BURTON ON TRENT to LONDON EUSTON and it got a £6.60 advance from tamworth to london but says £12 from burton to tamworth

 

[MSEAdam]

If you want this to work, you need to make sure that you're suggesting fares that don't involve a change of class part way through a journey. And I presume that the "standard" fare coming up as 1st class is there to make the savings look better? A fairer comparison would be for the same class of travel.

Hi Haywain,

If you're basing it upon my Ipswich -> Swindon journey, then I requested a standard class ticket. It just so happens that a first class ticket is cheaper for that particular date and time...

Adam
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I tried BURTON ON TRENT to LONDON EUSTON and it got a £6.60 advance from tamworth to london but says £12 from burton to tamworth

Thanks Alex. I'll investigate further...

Adam

 

[Deerfold]

Does the system simply look at the next possible journey?

As I say, for the journey I entered TTL suggested a better ticket than TicketySplit - it just needed a journey to start 20 minutes later (and was also slower).

The ticket was £29.90 compared with the suggested £41.80 - and although a little slower (20 minutes slower on a 3 hour+ journey) required 1 change with no rail replacement bus compared with 3 changes and a rail replacement bus.

Both tickets were Anytime Day Singles (though one with a route restriction).

 

[MSEAdam]

Does the system simply look at the next possible journey?

As I say, for the journey I entered TTL suggested a better ticket than TicketySplit - it just needed a journey to start 20 minutes later (and was also slower).

The ticket was £29.90 compared with the suggested £41.80 - and although a little slower (20 minutes slower on a 3 hour+ journey) required 1 change with no rail replacement bus compared with 3 changes and a rail replacement bus.

Both tickets were Anytime Day Singles (though one with a route restriction).

Hi Deerfold,

We pick a single ticket for the journey that fulfills the user's request - time & date, route and railcards.

We then look at the calling stations, and calculate where the best split would be for a walk-on fare.

We use this information to determine whether advance tickets are available which will also save the user money, and display the results as required.

But, as our site says, we don't seek to change the user's journey - just provide the ability to do the same journey but with two tickets instead of one.

Adam

 

[Jeni]

However, I have no particular desire to donate my free time to improve profits for large companies like moneysupermarket!

It's worth noting that this is Money Saving Expert, not Money Supermarket!

 

[tony_mac]

It's worth noting that this is Money Saving Expert, not Money Supermarket!

Thanks, but Money Saving Expert is owned by MoneySupermarket.

 

[bb21]

It's worth noting that this is Money Saving Expert, not Money Supermarket!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-18295587

Martin Lewis sells MoneySavingExpert.com for £87m

High-profile personal finance commentator and campaigner Martin Lewis has sold his MoneySavingExpert.com website for up to £87m.

It is being bought by MoneySupermarket.com which runs an online price comparison service.

...

 

[Deerfold]

Hi Deerfold,

We pick a single ticket for the journey that fulfills the user's request - time & date, route and railcards.

We then look at the calling stations, and calculate where the best split would be for a walk-on fare.

We use this information to determine whether advance tickets are available which will also save the user money, and display the results as required.

But, as our site says, we don't seek to change the user's journey - just provide the ability to do the same journey but with two tickets instead of one.

Adam

Both tickets are for Halifax for Carlisle and are Anytime Singles. I've not entered any preference on which way I want to go.

Your application is selecting the most expensive available single ticket.

I might assume the application would pick the cheapest...


Have tried another time and in a pop-up there's the question "What if the train delay's after my split?" which if the apostrophe is deliberate is very odd phrasing.

 

[MSEAdam]

Hi Deerfold,

Was this your search? http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/split-cheap-train-tickets/results/52b1b646806f00.52766415

I see that your request was for the 16:44 train, which is £41.80 as an advance ticket.

We won't pick a later train if the price is cheaper - we simply pick the first train that satisfies the user's request.

Adam