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Motorway speed limit for coaches

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notadriver

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Is the UK motorway speed limit for coaches that exceed 12 metres in length still 60 mph? The reason I ask is several expert coach drivers have told me it’s 70 mph and can therefore legally do this speed downhill.

Many thanks.
 
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jfollows

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Buses, coaches and minibuses (more than 12 metres overall length) 60mph on motorways.
70mph for ones under 12m overall length though.
 

GusB

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Is the UK motorway speed limit for coaches that exceed 12 metres in length still 60 mph? The reason I ask is several expert coach drivers have told me it’s 70 mph and can therefore legally do this speed downhill.

Many thanks.
They're obviously not quite so expert!
 

Mcr Warrior

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Is the UK motorway speed limit for coaches that exceed 12 metres in length still 60 mph? The reason I ask is several expert coach drivers have told me it’s 70 mph and can therefore legally do this speed downhill.
"Expert" coach drivers or www.gov.uk ? Let's decide! :rolleyes:

Concur with @jfollows's findings.
 

richw

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Buses, coaches and minibuses (more than 12 metres overall length) 60mph on motorways.
70mph for ones under 12m overall length though.
In addition to this even though a coach under 12m can do 70, it’s an offence to exceed the vehicle’s speed limiter which should be set to a maximum of 100kmh. If the tacho is set correctly exceeding the vehicles speed limiter will record an overspeed infringement on the tacho record.
 

GusB

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In addition to this even though a coach under 12m can do 70, it’s an offence to exceed the vehicle’s speed limiter which should be set to a maximum of 100kmh. If the tacho is set correctly exceeding the vehicles speed limiter will record an overspeed infringement on the tacho record.
Now this is interesting; I was, until fairly recently, convinced that the legal maximum was 100km/h, and it's this little nugget of information that has probably reinforced that belief.

There's little wonder that some drivers are confused if one set of regulations says one thing, but it's then contradicted by another!
 

jfollows

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In addition to this even though a coach under 12m can do 70, it’s an offence to exceed the vehicle’s speed limiter which should be set to a maximum of 100kmh. If the tacho is set correctly exceeding the vehicles speed limiter will record an overspeed infringement on the tacho record.
Interesting, and since 100kmh is just over 62mph, to all intents and purposes all coaches of whatever length are limited to 60mph if they have a tacho.
 

Leeds1970

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I was recently on the M62 east bound in lane 1 doing dead on 70mph and at the Manchester end of the long straight, a Megabus cruised past in lane 2 by the time I reached house in the middle the megabus was long gone !
 

Stan Drews

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From the beginning of 1996, all coaches built after 1988 were required to be fitted with a speed limiter set to 100kph. That clearly now covers virtually all coaches in regular use, so the de facto speed limit for coaches has effectively become 62.5mph. However, the legal answer to the speed limit question (for coaches not exceeding 12m) on motorways, is still 70mph.
 

richw

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Now this is interesting; I was, until fairly recently, convinced that the legal maximum was 100km/h, and it's this little nugget of information that has probably reinforced that belief.

There's little wonder that some drivers are confused if one set of regulations says one thing, but it's then contradicted by another!
Most of Our Geminis and Solo SRs are limited to 80kmh. A handful have tachos fitted for some routes over 50km so hypothetically could get some downhill speed up and exceed their limiter, they could still be under the 60mph dual carriageway or motorway limit, but infringing the set limiter speed. That would be recorded on the driver’s tacho card and visible For 28 days should it be interrogated by the authorities!

Another thing to consider is the vehicles tyre’s speed rating. Until recently First group used F rated tyres on their service buses. An F speed rating is 50mph. I wonder how many drivers are aware of the speed rating of their tyres.

As you say no wonder there is confusion.
 

notadriver

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In addition to this even though a coach under 12m can do 70, it’s an offence to exceed the vehicle’s speed limiter which should be set to a maximum of 100kmh. If the tacho is set correctly exceeding the vehicles speed limiter will record an overspeed infringement on the tacho record.

I’m not sure where this is written down in law. An overspeed on the tachograph above the speed limiter setting is not breaking any laws.
 

Enthusiast

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Now this is interesting; I was, until fairly recently, convinced that the legal maximum was 100km/h, and it's this little nugget of information that has probably reinforced that belief.

There's little wonder that some drivers are confused if one set of regulations says one thing, but it's then contradicted by another!
No speed limits in the UK are set in km/h. There is a difference between what speed a vehicle is limited to and what speed any physical speed limiting device may be set at. I often see lorries with a plate "This vehicle is limited to 62mph" (or similar). Whilst it's perhaps semantics, I see a vehicle's speed limit as that set by UK law (which will be in multiples of 10mph). Some vehicles may be governed to lower speeds by their limiters, but that does not mean they are limited to them.
 

Mwanesh

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I was recently on the M62 east bound in lane 1 doing dead on 70mph and at the Manchester end of the long straight, a Megabus cruised past in lane 2 by the time I reached house in the middle the megabus was long gone !
Depends on how your speedo is calibrated. When i worked for Megabus someone once wrote a letter complaining that i had left him for dead on the M1. He even pointed that even though i went past him in the 50 zone the camers never went off. Car speedos are a few miles out.
 

Stan Drews

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No speed limits in the UK are set in km/h. There is a difference between what speed a vehicle is limited to and what speed any physical speed limiting device may be set at. I often see lorries with a plate "This vehicle is limited to 62mph" (or similar). Whilst it's perhaps semantics, I see a vehicle's speed limit as that set by UK law (which will be in multiples of 10mph). Some vehicles may be governed to lower speeds by their limiters, but that does not mean they are limited to them.
It is EU legislation that specified the fitting of speed limiters to bus and lorries, and the speeds at which they must be set are defined in kph - primarily 90 or 100.

Many goods vehicle operators also choose to limit their own vehicles to lower speeds, largely to be more economical, and this is often displayed on the rear of the vehicle.
 

richw

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I’m not sure where this is written down in law. An overspeed on the tachograph above the speed limiter setting is not breaking any laws.
It records an infringement on your tacho, and if you are stopped by an enforcement check within 28 days it can be fined.
 

gledhill56

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Our vans at Ocado are limited to 64mph and I’ve been going up the A1M and still overtaken by coaches. Certainly remember a tri-axle megabus passing me near Leeming Bar earlier this year.
 

pdq

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Car speeds are miles out
Indeed they often are. I have to add 10% to my 'desired' speed, so to cruise at 70 I have the needle pointing to 77. Conversely, if I was going at an indicated 70 my speed would be 63.

This is borne out by the GPS on my phone and my dashcam, as well as those automatic roadside speed indicators.
 

Bletchleyite

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Indeed they often are. I have to add 10% to my 'desired' speed, so to cruise at 70 I have the needle pointing to 77. Conversely, if I was going at an indicated 70 my speed would be 63.

This is borne out by the GPS on my phone and my dashcam, as well as those automatic roadside speed indicators.

77 is pretty high (are your tyres very worn or have you changed the size?), it is between 72 and 73 on mine. But this is indeed the norm, simply because it is illegal for a car speedo to read under at all, even by a fraction of a mile per hour, and so all read over by varying degrees.
 

pdq

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77 is pretty high (are your tyres very worn or have you changed the size?), it is between 72 and 73 on mine. But this is indeed the norm, simply because it is illegal for a car speedo to read under at all, even by a fraction of a mile per hour, and so all read over by varying degrees.
It is, and it's annoying. It's a Hyundai i10 (unmodified and on decent tyres) and a similar courtesy car had the same margin of error so it's built in. My Octavia with a digital speedo is very close to accurate.
 

Grumpy Git

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The speedo on my current VW is reasonably accurate. At a true 70 it reads about 73.

I had a Subaru which was miles out, indicating almost 80 at a true 70.
 

notadriver

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It records an infringement on your tacho, and if you are stopped by an enforcement check within 28 days it can be fined.

Have you got a link for that ? All the offenses I see are related to misuse or drivers hours.
 

richw

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Have you got a link for that ? All the offenses I see are related to misuse or drivers hours.
Apologies. I had mixed up wires. It’s only an infringement within the EU. U.K. hasn’t adopted that infringement yet!
 

Enthusiast

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It is EU legislation that specified the fitting of speed limiters to bus and lorries, and the speeds at which they must be set are defined in kph - primarily 90 or 100.
Yes I know that. What I am trying to get across is that this question is about speed limits for coaches on UK roads, which are quoted in miles per hour and in multiples of ten. It has nothing to do with the way the speed of those vehicles is physically governed by devices installed under EU legislation (which seems to be in kilometres per hour and so does not correspond exactly with any of the UK's limits).
 
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Stan Drews

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Yes I know that. What I am trying to get across is that this question is about speed limits for coaches on UK roads, which are quoted in miles per hour and in multiples of ten. It has nothing to do with the way the speed of those vehicles is physically governed by devices installed under EU legislation (which seems to be in kilometres per hour and so does not correspond exactly with any of the UK's limits).
Yes, I think we’ve established that the speed limit is 70mph. However, other legislation also limits the vast majority of current day coaches to 100kph.
 

richw

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Yes, I think we’ve established that the speed limit is 70mph. However, other legislation also limits the vast majority of current day coaches to 100kph.
Under 12m overall length is 70mph
Over 12m overall length is 60mph
 

Enthusiast

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Yes, I think we’ve established that the speed limit is 70mph. However, other legislation also limits the vast majority of current day coaches to 100kph.
I think "restricts" (as in makes it mandatory for a governing device to be fitted) would be a better description. The vehicle is unable to travel more than 62.5mph (roughly). But, should the restricting device fail to operate the driver could not be prosecuted for speeding providing he kept below the speed limit for that particular class of vehicle. This question is about the distinction between vehicles limited to either 70mph or 60mph.
 

Stan Drews

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I think "restricts" (as in makes it mandatory for a governing device to be fitted) would be a better description. The vehicle is unable to travel more than 62.5mph (roughly). But, should the restricting device fail to operate the driver could not be prosecuted for speeding providing he kept below the speed limit for that particular class of vehicle. This question is about the distinction between vehicles limited to either 70mph or 60mph.
Aye, that question has already been answered, so no need to keep repeating it, using slightly different language each time.
I think we can safely close this one down!!
 

GusB

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The fact of the matter is that for some years now the maximum speed of any coach on the road has been the 62.5mph (100km/h), no matter what the Highway Code says. Lack of 70mph (and above - allegedly) running was one of the reasons why I found coach travel to be increasingly less appealing and it was certainly instrumental in my eventual switch to the train for longer journeys.

My 47 year-old head may appreciate the more sedate pace of coach travel today, but my 19 year-old heart was somewhat disappointed when drivers were no longer able to make up for lost time along single-carriageway sections of the A9 by giving it some serious welly along the M90 :)
 
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