Motorway services discussion

[Bald Rick]

Despite McDonalds flaws, their cleanliness is something a lot of other chains could learn from.

My local Mcs has a 3 star hygiene rating…

 

[Blindtraveler]

Not to mention their equality and diversity policies when it comes to staff recruitment, they are particularly well known for being good for people with various neurodiversity challenges and other barriers to employment. For that I will never ever fault them unless of course they change

 

[Mcr Warrior]

My local Mcs has a 3 star hygiene rating…

Is that good / typical? Isn't 3 star deemed "generally satisfactory"?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Is that good / typical? Isn't 3 star deemed "generally satisfactory"?

3 is a bit low. 4 is fairly typical, 5 you tend only really to see in boutique type places, I think it would be hard for McD to reach it given their high volumes.

But they do make sure their coffee machines are cleaned and descaled regularly. Which I bet the Bucks don't. That said as they don't deal with any fresh ingredients (it's all packaged) Starbucks might find it easy to score higher despite my general observation being that their stores are invariably messy with uncollected cups and spilt milk/sugar etc. To be fair Wetherspoons is the same, but Wetherspoons is cheap, Starbucks is crushingly expensive for what it is.

 

[Bald Rick]

3 is a bit low. 4 is fairly typical, 5 you tend only really to see in boutique type places, I think it would be hard for McD to reach it given their high volumes.

I was in aMcs yesterday with a 5…

 

[SuspectUsual]

3 is a bit low. 4 is fairly typical, 5 you tend only really to see in boutique type places

There were quite a few takeaways in Calderdale with 5* ratings. Or at least, with stickers proclaiming they had a 5* rating. Maybe Calderdale Council aren't too fastidious, or maybe there's a thriving market in dodgy hygiene accreditation

My kids went through a phase of seeking out the 0* and 1* establishments, a sort of takeaway Russian roulette I suppose. I blame their mother

 

[The exile]

I believe the MSA operators have managed to convince the relevant regulators that the catering offerings of a convenience store qualify as 'cooked hot food and drink', which they're obliged to offer 24 hours a day. A coffee machine evidently counts as the latter, I'm not quite sure how they meet the latter.

Whenever I’m en route at silly o’clock the sole coffee machine is invariably being cleaned / serviced. “You’ll have to wait half an hour!” Fat chance!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 Jun 2025 ==

I quite like the French "aires" if you just need the loo. But I could see them turning into hotbeds of drug dealing and sex crime in the UK.

As many of their French and German counterparts have!

 

[CyrusWuff]

Just checked my local junction, one of the food places closed before COVID, two others aren't there any more either

Similar for my local junction. It lists a Co-Op that has a café and a pharmacy as being within 1.5 miles of the junction, despite it having been turned into a Lidl pre-Covid.

 

[D1537]

Whenever I’m en route at silly o’clock the sole coffee machine is invariably being cleaned / serviced. “You’ll have to wait half an hour!” Fat chance!

On my old commute to work, the coffee machines in the services were inevitably out of order, but not because they were broken, simply because the staff couldn't be bothered to refill them with milk and coffee. They used to try to cover the screens up so that you couldn't tell the error message was "out of milk". I ended up stopping at a local Tesco extra near my house and using the Costa machine instead, so that was not only a £4 coffee they lost every morning, but quite often other stuff I used to buy as well.

There were quite a few takeaways in Calderdale with 5* ratings. Or at least, with stickers proclaiming they had a 5* rating. Maybe Calderdale Council aren't too fastidious, or maybe there's a thriving market in dodgy hygiene accreditation

5* is the default. You've got to be doing something non-trivially wrong before you lose a star. I remember reading somewhere that something like 77% of restaurants have 5 stars.

 

[Iskra]

Given the requirement for 24-hour operation, I wouldn't be surprised if a dim view was taken of anyone depending public transport, and potentially lifts from others, to access the sites anyway.

Some MSAs do have non-motorway access, which at least allows (sometimes brave or foolish) staff to cycle in. I'd be interested to know if anyone actually does!

When I used to work at Forton (Lancaster) Services. A staff bus used to be provided that ran from Morecambe to the site at 7am, 3pm and 11pm for shift changeovers.

Additionally there was extra pay for weekends, anti-social hours, free meals provided on shift and you could take out of date stuff home. As a student, it was good, well-paid and interesting work, you never knew what was going to happen on a shift.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 Jun 2025 ==

Whenever I’m en route at silly o’clock the sole coffee machine is invariably being cleaned / serviced. “You’ll have to wait half an hour!” Fat chance!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 Jun 2025 ==


As many of their French and German counterparts have!

That’s probably because the night staff aren’t confident on the machine having not been trained properly, rather than the machine genuinely needing cleaning.

 

[Bald Rick]

Given the requirement for 24-hour operation, I wouldn't be surprised if a dim view was taken of anyone depending public transport, and potentially lifts from others, to access the sites anyway.

Some MSAs do have non-motorway access, which at least allows (sometimes brave or foolish) staff to cycle in. I'd be interested to know if anyone actually does!

I once stayed at the motel at Killington Lake (M6). Got there late one evening, and found the Costa coffee closed and the 2 x staff clearing / locking up. I checked out early the next morning, and the Costa staff were just emerging from the room next to mine; I can’t say whether they had shared the room or just met there pre shift. But the arrangements were evidently that late shift ‘lodged’ and did early turn next morning.

 

[gswindale]

Just checked my local junction, one of the food places closed before COVID, two others aren't there any more either

It seems to rely on visitors to the site suggesting updates, but the update function seems quite well hidden!

 

[61653 HTAFC]

That’s probably because the night staff aren’t confident on the machine having not been trained properly, rather than the machine genuinely needing cleaning.

Those big coffee machines (originally they were branded as CoffeeNation, now they're usually Costa express but I think some are Starbucks-branded too) need cleaning every 24 hours. If the cleaning programme hasn't been activated after 24h the machine shuts down and stops working until the cleaning cycle is run. Back when I worked at Taunton Deane management were very fastidious on getting all shop staff trained on how to do the cleaning cycle and how to get the machine back into operation due to the complaints and crowding that would arise if everyone had to go to the tiny Costa kiosk. The on-board computer tech on the machines will have been updated by now, but I recently saw inside of one while it was being cleaned and the actual workings looked pretty much identical to how I remember.

 

[Russel]

Those big coffee machines (originally they were branded as CoffeeNation, now they're usually Costa express but I think some are Starbucks-branded too) need cleaning every 24 hours. If the cleaning programme hasn't been activated after 24h the machine shuts down and stops working until the cleaning cycle is run. Back when I worked at Taunton Deane management were very fastidious on getting all shop staff trained on how to do the cleaning cycle and how to get the machine back into operation due to the complaints and crowding that would arise if everyone had to go to the tiny Costa kiosk. The on-board computer tech on the machines will have been updated by now, but I recently saw inside of one while it was being cleaned and the actual workings looked pretty much identical to how I remember.

I saw the inside of a Costa Express machine in my local Tesco Extra last week, I was pleasantly surprised at how spotlessly clean it was.

 

[Joe Paxton]

There were quite a few takeaways in Calderdale with 5* ratings. Or at least, with stickers proclaiming they had a 5* rating. Maybe Calderdale Council aren't too fastidious, or maybe there's a thriving market in dodgy hygiene accreditation

Fake stickers are easy to obtain. I guess the first line of defence against any such behaviour is that of (potential) customers noticing a mismatch between what's shown on a sticker and what's recorded on the FSA database... but some establishments have a brass neck and won't care.

My kids went through a phase of seeking out the 0* and 1* establishments, a sort of takeaway Russian roulette I suppose. I blame their mother

Ha!

 

[MotCO]

There were quite a few takeaways in Calderdale with 5* ratings. Or at least, with stickers proclaiming they had a 5* rating. Maybe Calderdale Council aren't too fastidious, or maybe there's a thriving market in dodgy hygiene accreditation

I've seen one (non-motorway) establishment proudly displaying their one-star rating!

 

[Indigo Soup]

I've seen one (non-motorway) establishment proudly displaying their one-star rating!

I suppose it shows honesty that they (a) actually got inspected and (b) display the results of that inspection. Which is, technically, better than trying to conceal poor standards!

 

[Iskra]

I suppose it shows honesty that they (a) actually got inspected and (b) display the results of that inspection. Which is, technically, better than trying to conceal poor standards!

I disagree, it’s showing that they don’t care enough to improve and arrange a revisit to get a higher rating. That’s what any competent business would be doing.

 

[D1537]

I disagree, it’s showing that they don’t care enough to improve and arrange a revisit to get a higher rating. That’s what any competent business would be doing.

Though they may have already done that and are waiting for another inspection; unless there are major issues inspectors will usually stick to the normal timetable.

 

[Russel]

Though they may have already done that and are waiting for another inspection; unless there are major issues inspectors will usually stick to the normal timetable.

Places that score 1 star and proudly display it, do not strike me as the sort of places that would rush to resolve, or for that matter, do anything about it.

 

[gswindale]

Places that score 1 star and proudly display it, do not strike me as the sort of places that would rush to resolve, or for that matter, do anything about it.

From https://www.food.gov.uk/business-guidance/food-hygiene-rating-publication-and-displaying-your-rating

Wales​

If your business is based in Wales, you are legally required to display your rating in a visible place at or near each customer entrance, like the front door, entrance or window of the business. Stickers must be displayed where they can be easily read by customers before they enter the establishment when it is open for business.

No choice in the matter in some places.

Now that leads onto another question - say I run a chain of Bakeries with my head office in Cardiff, but have outlets in places such as Lydney or Coleford or Bristol - would that count as an English based business or Welsh based for the purposes of the FSA?

 

[Russel]

From https://www.food.gov.uk/business-guidance/food-hygiene-rating-publication-and-displaying-your-rating



No choice in the matter in some places.

May not be a choice, but my point was that anywhere that lets standards drop that low to begin with, probably aren't too concerned about rectifying it.

 

[Indigo Soup]

Now that leads onto another question - say I run a chain of Bakeries with my head office in Cardiff, but have outlets in places such as Lydney or Coleford or Bristol - would that count as an English based business or Welsh based for the purposes of the FSA?

I would imagine that as each premises is rated individually, each is subject to the local regulations on display (or otherwise) - and therefore you would be at liberty not to display your ratings. Commercial considerations probably mean you'd do it anyway - possibly to the extent of having the statement in Welsh, depending on how the economies of scale stacked up.

Likewise, if your head office were in Bristol, you probably wouldn't get very far arguing that your outlets in Monmouth or Caldicot didn't need to meet the Welsh requirements.

 

[Iskra]

I would imagine that as each premises is rated individually, each is subject to the local regulations on display (or otherwise) - and therefore you would be at liberty not to display your ratings. Commercial considerations probably mean you'd do it anyway - possibly to the extent of having the statement in Welsh, depending on how the economies of scale stacked up.

Likewise, if your head office were in Bristol, you probably wouldn't get very far arguing that your outlets in Monmouth or Caldicot didn't need to meet the Welsh requirements.

I’m not sure that that is correct. From experience it’s normally the EHO from your head office area that deals with your business, so I’d assume you’d follow their rules.

 

[jon0844]

I would imagine that as each premises is rated individually, each is subject to the local regulations on display (or otherwise) - and therefore you would be at liberty not to display your ratings.

I have often thought England should require scores to be shown like Wales, but then I realised that the easier solution is just to look for the sign at the door/entrance. If there isn't one, assume the score is bad and move on.

Obviously scores can be faked on those showing 5 stars, so perhaps it's worth checking anyway, but if someone is showing nothing then that's a straight fail in my book and saves me the hassle of looking.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Not entirely sure what relevance any of this has to motorway services, but over the weekend I had an absolutely wonderful meal from a 1 star rated curry House, quite possibly the best curry I've had since I moved to my current home a couple of years ago. Reading between the lines of how these inspections are carried out, there are sometimes factors to do with premises and their design that are hard or impossible to rectify that maybe at play

 

[Baxenden Bank]

Not entirely sure what relevance any of this has to motorway services, but over the weekend I had an absolutely wonderful meal from a 1 star rated curry House, quite possibly the best curry I've had since I moved to my current home a couple of years ago. Reading between the lines of how these inspections are carried out, there are sometimes factors to do with premises and their design that are hard or impossible to rectify that maybe at play

Yes, things like the layout of the kitchen come into play. Something like having to walk a long way from fridges to preparation areas, passing areas with cooked food laid out so a risk of cross-contamination perhaps. A pub / restaurant near me dropped to one star from five on such a basis.

 

[DelW]

Yes, things like the layout of the kitchen come into play. Something like having to walk a long way from fridges to preparation areas, passing areas with cooked food laid out so a risk of cross-contamination perhaps. A pub / restaurant near me dropped to one star from five on such a basis.

A pub in Wales that I visit occasionally does basic but good value food, cooked to order. At one time it had a one (possibly even zero?) star rating, which had to be displayed. The landlord's account of this was that the inspector had arrived hard on the heels of a delivery, at a time when he was short of staff. As a result, a lot of non-perishable stuff was stacked temporarily in a corridor, which resulted in the poor rating. Whatever the case was, I continued to eat there without either concerns or ill effects.

 

[styles]

We had a pub near us receive a 2 star hygiene rating because they weren't labelling they fresh food in the fridges with the prep date. Normally a very understandable concern, but the pub consciously didn't bother with this because they were strict with how much food they prepped each day and crucially, they gave the remainder away to a local soup kitchen at the end of every day, leaving the fridge practically empty. Didn't make a jot of difference though, they had to start labelling the prepped food, then had a re-inspection and their rating was up to a 5. No other significant changes.

In any case, I felt that without evidence of food being served or used past its expiry or shelf-life, a 2 was pretty harsh.

 

[jfollows]

My local takeaway had a one or zero star rating a while back, but again was reinspected and is now five stars, so it does seem to happen, either they failed on a technicality or got a big boot up the backside.