Motorway services discussion

[Jimini]

I think the popularity and sheer existence of the Tebay two locations plus Ken lodge and the other one from that group which is I think Gloucester proves that there's still a market for good quality on road facilities

Indeed — we’ll stop at Gloucester even if we don’t need anything as it’s a destination of sorts in itself (and the pooch gets to stretch his legs as well)!

 

[GW43125]

Don’t know about rules about distances between service stations, but remember accompanying a school trip to France in the days when “M25” and “services” were strangers to each other. Return journey involved the southern half of the M25 at rush hour. Request for loo stop first made about the M23 junction and was appeased with “we’ll stop at next services”. That was Chievely - I have never seen anyone move so fast once the coach door was open!

Sounds like my rail replacement on the M5-Tiverton to Plymouth at 50mph (half that up hills...) on a clapped out double decker, and a loo queue halfway across the ticket hall when we got there!

 

[Blindtraveler]

As a bit of a bus enthusiast, you can't beat a good motorway rail replacement on a clapped out decker, but for purely practical reasons. It's a really silly idea

 

[Zamracene749]

Sixty years old now! BTW, is the iconic tower building still in use?

I believe the tower is unlikely ever to reopen commercially to the public, due it not conforming with modern access and fire escape regulations. Blue asbestos removal and prohibitively expensive modifications would be needed, even if they could be granted due to the listed status. Seems a shame really.

 

[GW43125]

As a bit of a bus enthusiast, you can't beat a good motorway rail replacement on a clapped out decker, but for purely practical reasons. It's a really silly idea

I wouldn't have minded a clapped out decker... but it was just a bog standard decker with a 50mph limiter. It was torture and took the wrong side of an hour and a half!

The coach coming back was gorgeous however, and took the 100km/h limiter as a suggestion. We actually did Plymouth to Tiverton three minutes quicker than the train!

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Among the reasons for the high prices is the need for 24/7/365 facilities as mentioned upthread, and the overheads of running the sites are substantial. There's definitely a bit more of a mark-up than strictly necessary but it's no worse than the mark-up at many railway stations and airports- particularly airside.

 

[PeterC]

I went to the OK Diner at the A55 (not strictly a motorway, but a 'special road' which has most of the rules of motorways) Northop Hall services recently and have to say, either my nostalgia is over-playing things, or it was a very poor replacement for a Little Chef.

I think that the OK Diners have gone downhill since covid. These days on A1/A1M journeys we take the refreshment stop at the big Downtown garden centre at Gonnerby Moor. Worth the extra couple of minutes to drive past the adjacent Moto services.

 

[Russel]

Used Moto Doncaster North twice on the way to and from East Yorkshire this week, it could certainly do with some money spending on it, scruffy all round and the toilets are far too small... But, it is dog friendly, so that's a plus.

I'm really not a fan of EuroGarages. They're painfully expensive, even if they're nowhere near a motorway. Something of a last resort!

I didn't know the Greggs outside Crewe statin was part of EG, until I saw the Google Pay notification on my phone, it explains why the breakfast deal was more expensive than I expected.

 

[route101]

Had a trip down to Cornwall last week, ended up in a fair few services, and either I was never picky when as a child we used to stop for breakfast at Podimore on the A303 or some service stations are absolute 'holes these days. It's hit and miss it seems with how some of the ex-little chefs are looked after. The starbucks at Weyhill (A303) is well enough looked after (though never seems to have any loo roll), but Podimore is a dump, and into Cornwall some of the overgrown petrol stations aren't much better. Carland Cross on the A30 was a bit of a dump, probably not helped by the loss in passing traffic since the dual carriageway opened.

Also what is it with building service stations such that you have to do a three-quarter turn on two roundabouts in a row to reach it (and the same in reverse), would be nice if there was a note on the signs to warn you. Then there's the desert on the M5 where you have what seems like a services every 10 minutes, then an awkward 29 mile gap whilst you negotiate Almondsbury, before the M4 once again throws you one every ten minutes, so by the time you've negotiated all the roundabouts, you could've nearly made the next one. Has there ever been anything set out for encouraging distances between service stations? You've got that on the M4 and M40 but then if I drive from Farnborough on the M3 to head up the M1, it's well over an hour until you reach the first one at Toddington.

Haven't quite got over the £8.50 for two slices of pizza and a bottle of coke at Exeter services though! I do find it's a bit small for the sheer number of cars/caravans that rock up on a changeover Saturday...

£8.50 for that is actually a good price for a services, Greggs?. I have seen one slice of pizza for £8.50 in airports in Europe.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 31 May 2025 ==

I think that the OK Diners have gone downhill since covid. These days on A1/A1M journeys we take the refreshment stop at the big Downtown garden centre at Gonnerby Moor. Worth the extra couple of minutes to drive past the adjacent Moto services.

Seen one on the A19 today at tea time and it was dead.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Bring back little chef

 

[yorksrob]

Bring back little chef

Hear hear !

 

[Russel]

Bring back little chef

I was going to post something about it all being deep fried rubbish, then I remembered that most services these days only serve KFC, Burger King and Greggs...

I worry for the health of the average British driver.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I was going to post something about it all being deep fried rubbish, then I remembered that most services these days only serve KFC, Burger King and Greggs...

I worry for the health of the average British driver.

Nothing to stop British drivers boxing up a salad at home.

 

[Russel]

Nothing to stop British drivers boxing up a salad at home.

Funny you should say that, I picked up two coffees in Greggs at Moto Doncaster North yesterday and all that was left in the fridges was the salads!

 

[Blindtraveler]

I was going to post something about it all being deep fried rubbish, then I remembered that most services these days only serve KFC, Burger King and Greggs...

I worry for the health of the average British driver.

The same could be argued for the majority of the menu at weatherspoons, for which there seems to be a great and an increasingly hard to understand following on this forum, their most recent menu change has removed a lot of the things that are actually cooked fresh in pubs and it's fairly obvious that a huge percentage of it is microwaved and what isn't is definitely thrown in the general direction of a deep fat fryer.

And to be totally honest, the last few times I ate at a little chef before they finally completely die to death. It certainly wasn't anywhere close to the unhealthiest meal I'd ever eaten. And whilst I like a salad, I'm equally not the healthiest of eaters

 

[Indigo Soup]

The same could be argued for the majority of the menu at weatherspoons, for which there seems to be a great and an increasingly hard to understand following on this forum, their most recent menu change has removed a lot of the things that are actually cooked fresh in pubs and it's fairly obvious that a huge percentage of it is microwaved and what isn't is definitely thrown in the general direction of a deep fat fryer.

It can be instructive to look at the catalogue of one of the foodservice wholesalers (Brake Brothers, etc.) and compare it to the menu at your nearest chain pub. There's often almost a 1-to-1 correspondence between the items.

Nothing to stop British drivers boxing up a salad at home.

Or indeed buy one pre-boxed from the supermarkets that can now be found at every MSA and most petrol station forecourts.

 

[SuspectUsual]

I think that the OK Diners have gone downhill since covid. These days on A1/A1M journeys we take the refreshment stop at the big Downtown garden centre at Gonnerby Moor. Worth the extra couple of minutes to drive past the adjacent Moto services.

The one on the A1 near Newark used to be excellent

There’s probably a “best places to eat within 10 minutes of a motorway junction” thread to be had too……

 

[dosxuk]

Blue asbestos removal and prohibitively expensive modifications would be needed, even if they could be granted due to the listed status.

Listing is not going to prevent the removal of asbestos, or bringing it up to required safety standards. Lots of much more culturally or architecturally significant structures have had similar works done with little fuss.

What would prevent it is a lack of commercial desire to invest the required money. Don't need to bring it up to standards if it's not going to be used.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Listing is not going to prevent the removal of asbestos, or bringing it up to required safety standards. Lots of much more culturally or architecturally significant structures have had similar works done with little fuss.

What would prevent it is a lack of commercial desire to invest the required money. Don't need to bring it up to standards if it's not going to be used.

If we're talking about the Pennine tower I understand the fact that it doesn't, and practically can't, have a second fire escape staircase is the main issue, not asbestos removal.

But it's indeed not that commercially useful. People want to stop, use the loo and pick up fast food quickly, not have a sit down meal in an observation tower. It took them long enough to realise that people mostly didn't even want Little Chef/"Granary" restaurant style facilities, they wanted KFC, McD and Burger King plus takeaway sandwiches. The "sit down" type option is usually still there for breakfast at least and hardly anyone chooses it.

 

[dosxuk]

If we're talking about the Pennine tower I understand the fact that it doesn't, and practically can't, have a second fire escape staircase is the main issue, not asbestos removal.

But it's indeed not that commercially useful.

That's the point though - if they wanted to re-open the space, a solution would be found, and the listing of the tower wouldn't prevent that from happening. There's plenty of listed buildings with additional fire escapes bolted on the side.

Listed building status seems to be regularly implied on these pages to mean that nothing can be done to the building - it can't be altered, it can't be added to and it can't have bits demolished. This is simply not true. I've been involved in discussions about the scopes of works and what can be allowed, what mitigations would have to be taken and so on, and the underlying message I have always got is that the heritage groups would rather have the building in active use and maintained than just left to rot and eventually need to be demolished, and they acknowledge that that will result in the loss of some heritage features, with their role to be to protect as many as reasonably practical.

 

[Bletchleyite]

That's the point though - if they wanted to re-open the space, a solution would be found, and the listing of the tower wouldn't prevent that from happening. There's plenty of listed buildings with additional fire escapes bolted on the side.

True, good point. The only purpose for it really would be people going up to have a look, which even if they charged a couple of quid wouldn't make money compared to the cost of doing such work (even if it wasn't listed - indeed the listing is probably entirely irrelevant as you say). Even if it was a restaurant it would be considered a faff to go up compared to one at ground level - I am probably not the only one who even baulks at the faff of going up onto the bridge for stuff when only wanting a very quick stop, let alone waiting for lifts up a tower!

I do wonder how long it'll last before the concrete deteriorates and it is considered unsafe. The service area itself is old, badly laid out and quite small on that side - really needs a complete Rugby style rebuild - and I bet they'd be jumping at the chance to get it delisted so that could be done.

Listed building status seems to be regularly implied on these pages to mean that nothing can be done to the building - it can't be altered, it can't be added to and it can't have bits demolished.

Not just listed buildings. There are very often statements on here along the lines that the law is basically immutable, and it isn't. Not even the US Constitution is immutable. Literally anything at all (outside the laws of physics) can be changed if there is the strong will to do so.

 

[jfollows]

I used to work in Daresbury Laboratory, which has a tower which can be seen from passing trains south of Warrington. It used to be a large Van de Graaff generator with the experimental equipment at the top of the tower (Nuclear Structure Facility, for example https://cds.cern.ch/record/1730906/files/vol23-issue4-p134-e.pdf).

I’ve been up the tower a number of times and the views are good and interesting.

Every so often someone proposed a use for the tower, because the funding for the physics was discontinued last century and the equipment removed. For example, computers in the core and work space at the top.

But it’s simply not practical, not impossible, but not going to happen. Without major work the number of people who could work at the top would be very few, as was the case when it was built.

Nothing’s immutable, but other than a convenient thing on which to attach radio and microwave masts, it’s not going to change. I’m glad and lucky to have been to the top a few times.

 

[PeterC]

The one on the A1 near Newark used to be excellent

There’s probably a “best places to eat within 10 minutes of a motorway junction” thread to be had too……

I used to be an OK Diner fan although I have only used that branch once when the Bloody Oaks branch car park was full of Hells Angels.

Last time I stopped it was still good for breakfasts but SWMBO and I thought the lunch menu had slipped.

I like the physical Diner at Bloody Oaks but the southbound equivalent at Colsterworth is an old Little Chef and the layout makes it difficult to catch a server's eye.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 Jun 2025 ==

It can be instructive to look at the catalogue of one of the foodservice wholesalers (Brake Brothers, etc.) and compare it to the menu at your nearest chain pub. There's often almost a 1-to-1 correspondence between the items.

I once stopped off in Burford for food when travelling up the A40 and every pub had an almost identical menu, most printed from the same "insert name and logo here" template.

It's a trip that I make regularly. Once upon a time I would have used the Little Chef by the A40 roundabout.

 

[Blindtraveler]

What the last few posts prove is that there is still a call for half. Decent, okay. Not gastronomically or health-wise. Brilliant, but nonetheless half decent roadside meals that aren't a KFC or a petrol station sandwich or a microwaved nuclear toasted sandwich from insert chain coffee shop here.

 

[styles]

What the last few posts prove is that there is still a call for half. Decent, okay. Not gastronomically or health-wise. Brilliant, but nonetheless half decent roadside meals that aren't a KFC or a petrol station sandwich or a microwaved nuclear toasted sandwich from insert chain coffee shop here.

Exactly this.

I don't expect everywhere to be like Tebay (though I think their main hot food offering isn't extortionate), but that doesn't mean we have to live with McDonalds/BK/KFC/Subway at like every service station.

In all honesty with the calories I burn while driving I'd be happy with just a really nice sandwich. The UK unfortunately doesn't do fresh sandwiches though, it's all pre-packaged on soggy bread.

 

[Jimini]

We quite like to find a spot for food just off route rather than stop at service stations, where possible. An example would be the M25 J17 or J18. There are some cracking pubs and cafes in and around Chorleywood that serve fresh food, all within a couple of mins drive from the motorway.

 

[Zamracene749]

Listing is not going to prevent the removal of asbestos, or bringing it up to required safety standards. Lots of much more culturally or architecturally significant structures have had similar works done with little fuss.

What would prevent it is a lack of commercial desire to invest the required money. Don't need to bring it up to standards if it's not going to be used.

I didn't state that listing prevented modifications. That's exactly my point- commercially it just won't ever happen. I mentioned listing because, as most of us are aware, asbestos removal often causes damage. Alongside the visual impact that an added staircase would have, this would necessitate an approval process. Which costs money of course. Approved repairs, if they were to conserve the original fabric and appearance of the building, would almost certainly cost more than adding a fire escape and basic asbestos stripping. In the case of a service station restaurant, in the middle of nowhere, none of that cash is likely to be forthcoming anyway, let alone extra to preserve appearances.

 

[BurtonM]

all within a couple of mins drive from the motorway.

Same goes for petrol stations - I'll always find a supermarket near a junction, and save myself 30p/litre.

 

[cactustwirly]

Nothing to stop British drivers boxing up a salad at home.

Where are you going to store it on a long drive?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Where are you going to store it on a long drive?

Some cars have built in fridges these days (usually by way of feeding a branch off the aircon into somewhere like the glove box before it is passed through the heater matrix). But otherwise @TT-ONR-NRN can keep the warm, wilting salad