Motorway services discussion

[Russel]

You need to be hardy to walk 100 yards in the open air these days? Heaven help us! I have walked over that bridge several times in recent years late at night when food was available only on the other side. The entire motorway experience is bleak IMHO anyway, but I've got used to it.

Two of the next nearest services (Exeter and Bridgwater) are nightmares to reach (via massive busy multi-lane roundabouts with traffic lights) and the other, Cullumpton, is cramped and westbound usage is discouraged with no signs for it.

Only used Bridgewater a couple of times, but it's always been chaos.

On the M5 heading south, we normally pull off at Welcome Break Gordano, then keep going at the island and use the McDonalds in Portishead 5 minutes down the road!

 

[61653 HTAFC]

You need to be hardy to walk 100 yards in the open air these days? Heaven help us! I have walked over that bridge several times in recent years late at night when food was available only on the other side. The entire motorway experience is bleak IMHO anyway, but I've got used to it.

Two of the next nearest services (Exeter and Bridgwater) are nightmares to reach (via massive busy multi-lane roundabouts with traffic lights) and the other, Cullumpton, is cramped and westbound usage is discouraged with no signs for it.

You do need to bear in mind the conditions on that particular night. It was cold and wet with visibility of barely 10 metres- something which undoubtedly contributed to the severity of the pile-up which happened a few miles north, and which was why the services were so overwhelmed.

I agree on the awkwardness of the other nearby services, I generally prefer to stop at ones which are between junctions rather than at them, not least because you can stay in the "motorway" mindset rather than having to interact with local traffic. Though there's one on the M1 (I forget which) which has rather short sliproads in and out that are a bit nerve-wracking to use in an underpowered car!

 

[route101]

Do any motorway services close during the night? Tebay is still open during the night.

 

[SuspectUsual]

Do any motorway services close during the night? Tebay is still open during the night.

It's part of their licensing that they're required to offer fuel, hot snacks and drinks and parking 24 hours a day 365 days a year. This generally means the petrol station and some - but not all - of the outlets in the buildings, though for some its just the petrol station and it'd little shop

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Do any motorway services close during the night? Tebay is still open during the night.

When I worked at Taunton Deane, most outlets closed during the night except for weekends during the summer holidays when the shop and diner/restaurants stayed open. The petrol station part stayed open 24/7/365, and the main building was always available for people to access the toilets.

As for my request to reopen the thread, that was inspired by finally checking out Gloucester services and being rather underwhelmed. The sandwiches on offer certainly looked to be a higher standard than the usual stuff, but not really much above what the MSAs with an M&S or Waitrose can offer... And the coffee was particularly overpriced and not that great.

Worst thing was the atmosphere though. It was crowded, the signage was poor, and I felt like I was about to get kicked out because I wasn't wearing sandals and didn't have a dog with a bandana with me. I thought the cashier was going to check my ID and refuse to serve me because I wasn't named Tarquin or Cressida!

Worst though, was the signage telling customers not to bring dogs (apart from assistance dogs) into the coffee and sandwich shop, which was being ignored by everyone. There was a lady in front of me in the queue who seemed to thing that if she picked her dog up, it didn't count as a dog and the signage didn't apply to her... When she got to the counter, the staff didn't tell her the dog wasn't allowed despite all the signage, and she proceeded to sit the dog on the counter where food is served, while she ordered her lunch!

At least when you have to donate a kidney to pay for lunch there, they probably use it to make some sort of fancy artisanal paté!

 

[RJ]

Since setting up a bus company intended to cover rail replacement anywhere in the UK, I find I spend a fair amount of time on motorways in 12 metre buses. I’m used to the usual offerings. I stopped at Gloucester by chance once and was surprised, but I was after a WHSmith type shop really. I did stop for a meal, which was a nice change from the usual greasy offerings.

I agree with there being parking restrictions otherwise people would dump vehicles there and space would be limited for people who actually need to stop to use services. More enforcement would be nice - I park in the coach bays, which are often taken up with vans and lorries. Cobham is a nice change, there are often marshalls there which stops that behaviour and they have a good range of food places.

It's part of their licensing that they're required to offer fuel, hot snacks and drinks and parking 24 hours a day 365 days a year. This generally means the petrol station and some - but not all - of the outlets in the buildings, though for some its just the petrol station and it'd little shop

Definitely doesn’t always happen. I stopped at Membury wb the other night and the only place open was WHSmith. Unless the Starbucks self service vending machine counts as hot snacks they weren’t complying with that, the fridge containing the sandwiches was even covered.

 

[SuspectUsual]

Definitely doesn’t always happen. I stopped at Membury wb the other night and the only place open was WHSmith. Unless the Starbucks self service vending machine counts as hot snacks they weren’t complying with that, the fridge containing the sandwiches was even covered.

It does count

 

[Lost property]

When I worked at Taunton Deane, most outlets closed during the night except for weekends during the summer holidays when the shop and diner/restaurants stayed open. The petrol station part stayed open 24/7/365, and the main building was always available for people to access the toilets.

As for my request to reopen the thread, that was inspired by finally checking out Gloucester services and being rather underwhelmed. The sandwiches on offer certainly looked to be a higher standard than the usual stuff, but not really much above what the MSAs with an M&S or Waitrose can offer... And the coffee was particularly overpriced and not that great.

Worst thing was the atmosphere though. It was crowded, the signage was poor, and I felt like I was about to get kicked out because I wasn't wearing sandals and didn't have a dog with a bandana with me. I thought the cashier was going to check my ID and refuse to serve me because I wasn't named Tarquin or Cressida!

Worst though, was the signage telling customers not to bring dogs (apart from assistance dogs) into the coffee and sandwich shop, which was being ignored by everyone. There was a lady in front of me in the queue who seemed to thing that if she picked her dog up, it didn't count as a dog and the signage didn't apply to her... When she got to the counter, the staff didn't tell her the dog wasn't allowed despite all the signage, and she proceeded to sit the dog on the counter where food is served, while she ordered her lunch!

At least when you have to donate a kidney to pay for lunch there, they probably use it to make some sort of fancy artisanal paté!

Possibly you would prefer somewhere with formica topped tables / lino flooring and sauce bottles with encrusted sauce around the top ?

There's a very good reason why Gloucester Services was crowded. When Tebay opened, it set a new standard for motorway services, and, proved very successful and popular as a result. Gloucester has built, and developed, this reputation for quality hence it attracts customers who don't want to endure the usual dire services...although some are, marginally, better than others. Taunton Dean was usually avoided...any idea why ?

I should add, that, over the course of my life I've visited many service stations, for both work / leisure journeys, and spent a few overnight stays in them, hence I'm qualified to comment.

You mention the food. M&S, notoriously over priced, do have a varied range, as do Waitrose...however, one teensy difference. Their products are mass produced...those at Tebay and Gloucester are locally produced. I am more than happy to pay for the quality and variety at both.

I was unaware there was a dress code at motorway services....presumably you've never been on one late Saturday night / early hours of Sunday morning ?...eclectic would be the best way to describe the attire on display.

There again, normals, and the normal world, are alien to many on here, so no surprise you were shocked.

As for the dog, well on the surface, the lady shouldn't have put it on the counter, and it must have been a very small dog, but, if dogs are banned, and, thankfully, common sense prevails, how else is a single person, with a dog, expected to get served other than by having the dog accompany them to the servery ?

 

[yorksrob]

Possibly you would prefer somewhere with formica topped tables / lino flooring and sauce bottles with encrusted sauce around the top ?

Yes please, with baked beans, fried eggs, chips and sausages available !

And the sauce bottles should ideally be shaped like a tomato.

 

[The exile]

Possibly you would prefer somewhere with formica topped tables / lino flooring and sauce bottles with encrusted sauce around the top ?

There's a very good reason why Gloucester Services was crowded. When Tebay opened, it set a new standard for motorway services, and, proved very successful and popular as a result. Gloucester has built, and developed, this reputation for quality hence it attracts customers who don't want to endure the usual dire services...although some are, marginally, better than others. Taunton Dean was usually avoided...any idea why ?

I should add, that, over the course of my life I've visited many service stations, for both work / leisure journeys, and spent a few overnight stays in them, hence I'm qualified to comment.

You mention the food. M&S, notoriously over priced, do have a varied range, as do Waitrose...however, one teensy difference. Their products are mass produced...those at Tebay and Gloucester are locally produced. I am more than happy to pay for the quality and variety at both.

I was unaware there was a dress code at motorway services....presumably you've never been on one late Saturday night / early hours of Sunday morning ?...eclectic would be the best way to describe the attire on display.

There again, normals, and the normal world, are alien to many on here, so no surprise you were shocked.

As for the dog, well on the surface, the lady shouldn't have put it on the counter, and it must have been a very small dog, but, if dogs are banned, and, thankfully, common sense prevails, how else is a single person, with a dog, expected to get served other than by having the dog accompany them to the servery ?

Leave it in the car.

 

[Bletchleyite]

You mention the food. M&S, notoriously over priced, do have a varied range, as do Waitrose...however, one teensy difference. Their products are mass produced...those at Tebay and Gloucester are locally produced. I am more than happy to pay for the quality and variety at both.

I personally find they lack both quality and variety. They are seriously overtalked. The coffee is decent, but the actual food range is actually a bit average, and like the traditional "granary" cafes at Granada and the likes it was usually in the form of "all day breakfasts that really have been there all day"* and the likes. Not really much better than Wetherspoons but three times the price.

The other thing I noticed recently was that cleaning is well below par, with dirty tables and trays left out. Only other place you tend to get that is Starbucks - normally McD etc are well on top of it with dedicated cleaning staff.

And the whole "farm shop" thing is a bit of a pain when you just want headache pills.

* Jasper Carrott, I think.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 Oct 2024 ==

Possibly you would prefer somewhere with formica topped tables / lino flooring and sauce bottles with encrusted sauce around the top ?

The actual quality isn't much better than that. The turd has been polished somewhat, but it's still a turd.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

All I'm saying is that some of the fuss about the Westmorland-run services is a little bit over the top. I'm all for the quality and variety but they don't really lend themselves to a simple quick-stop if you have to queue for half an hour and there's no signage to show which queue is for which facility. On my way South on Friday I'd also stopped at the previous Services at Strensham, as I needed the loo. Whilst that is a "legacy" RoadChef site with all the usual problems MSAs are famous for, they have opened a Spar in addition to the WHSmith-branded rip-off shop. This was very good value for the usual fayre you might want to get at a motorway services, being no more expensive than the Tesco Local on the high-street.
The dog mentioned above was a Westie with a tartan coat on, the owner was one of those weird dog-mums who talks to her pooch in a baby-voice. The size of the dog is neither here nor there when it comes to hygiene of course. When I joined the queue behind her she was right next to the "no dogs past this point" sign, so I wasn't sure if she was in the queue or waiting with the dog while her companion bought the food. I asked and she said she was, so I joined the queue behind her. Again, I wasn't aware that if you pick your dog up as if it's a small child, it magically becomes clean.

If you're travelling solo with your dog and need to go into a food shop, you tie your dog up outside. That's what dog owners have done for decades. What you don't do is ignore the rules because they're inconvenient for you.

I suppose that at the legacy sites the staff are the most unfriendly and miserable people you encounter. At the fancy eco farm shops, it's the other customers that have the attitude problem.

 

[Bletchleyite]

If you're travelling solo with your dog and need to go into a food shop, you tie your dog up outside.

You just leave it in the car. One aspect of motorway service stations is that all* customers are there by motor vehicle**, and as such the rules around what is and isn't allowed are quite reasonably based around leaving things in said motor vehicle.

* OK, you can walk into the back entrance of some of them and a few others are technically off the motorway so you could ride your bike there, but it's not a common thing to do and not an intended use case.

** Could be a motorcycle, but I doubt there are many dogs riding pillion.

 

[Indigo Soup]

Fully agree and driving away from Gloucester it left me wondering how it is, that there's no effective competition or competitive process for service station sites which periodically kicks out poorly performing operators from their service stations, to open them up to bids from new operators who are in a different league for quality. The UK talks a good game about promoting competition, but doesn't practice it, getting stuck with such poorly performing services.

A very belated reply, I'm afraid...

This isn't possible because of the way the UK does motorway service areas. The sites are either owned outright by the operators, or held from the Department for Transport on a long lease. In order to be signed as a service area from the motorway, the current requirements are for 24/7 access to:

• Two hours free parking for all vehicle types, with CCTV and lighting
• Free toilets, baby-changing facilities and a Changing Places facility, with no need to make a purchase
• Showers for HGV drivers, with lockers
• Petrol and diesel fuel
• Electric vehicle charging points
• Cooked hot food and hot drinks for consumption on the premises
• Access to a free-of-charge telephone for emergency use
• Free wifi
• Free power points available for device charging
• Access for those carrying out duties on behalf of the Secretary of State for Transport

There is a formula for the number of parking spaces and toilets required. The actual design of the site, including how the requirements are met, is down to the operator, who funds the construction and operation themselves. That's one of the reasons why service areas on junctions were popular for a long time - the operator can serve both directions, potentially on two routes, with one site. They've been out of favour since 2008.

More information than any normal human being would want about motorway and trunk road services is here: https://motorwayservices.uk/

 

[Bletchleyite]

They've been out of favour since 2008.

Though are still built. Rugby opened in the late 2010s, I forget exactly when, but well after 2008, and it's at a junction rather than dedicated access.

 

[Indigo Soup]

Though are still built. Rugby opened in the late 2010s, I forget exactly when, but well after 2008, and it's at a junction rather than dedicated access.

From 2008 to 2022 they were merely 'not preferred', but could still be built if other factors were in their favour. Since 2022, they've only been allowed if no other site is viable.

For what it's worth, I share the nostalgia for Little Chef, Happy Eater, and the likes. A trip to the local Little Chef used to be a treat when I was knee high to a small grasshopper. It's now a pet food retailer; this may have resulted in an improvement of the quality of meals served.

 

[Halwynd]

For what it's worth, I share the nostalgia for Little Chef, Happy Eater, and the likes. A trip to the local Little Chef used to be a treat when I was knee high to a small grasshopper. It's now a pet food retailer; this may have resulted in an improvement of the quality of meals served.

Me to. I used to love the saute potatoes which came with the breakfasts - and the Jubilee Pancakes with ice cream. I think Manchester Piccadilly railway station was the only non-roadside location to ever have a Little Chef?

 

[SuspectUsual]

Me to. I used to love the saute potatoes which came with the breakfasts - and the Jubilee Pancakes with ice cream. I think Manchester Piccadilly railway station was the only non-roadside location to ever have a Little Chef?

I (think) I remember there being one in Dover docks

 

[Halwynd]

I (think) I remember there being one in Dover docks

You're right, apparently a Little Chef opened in 1997 in the terminal building at Eastern Docks.

You learn something every day!

 

[PTR 444]

You just leave it in the car.

You wouldn’t do that on a hot summer’s day.

 

[Bletchleyite]

You wouldn’t do that on a hot summer’s day.

Plenty of people do provided the windows are left open a little and it's not for long so the air is still cool from the aircon. Plus many modern cars can leave the aircon running, particularly EVs.

However, it's a bit moot - if it says no dogs, then no dogs. If you have a dog, you need to find something else to do with it or not become a customer. Other people have no obligation, moral or legal, to accommodate your decision to (a) get a dog as a pet, and (b) take it with you on your journey. The only dogs that must be permitted are bona-fide service dogs e.g. guide dogs for blind people, hearing dogs and similar (and not the laughable "emotional support animals" people in the US like to make up as a thing - are any pets *not* for emotional support?)

 

[PTR 444]

A very belated reply, I'm afraid...

This isn't possible because of the way the UK does motorway service areas. The sites are either owned outright by the operators, or held from the Department for Transport on a long lease. In order to be signed as a service area from the motorway, the current requirements are for 24/7 access to:

• Two hours free parking for all vehicle types, with CCTV and lighting
• Free toilets, baby-changing facilities and a Changing Places facility, with no need to make a purchase
• Showers for HGV drivers, with lockers
• Petrol and diesel fuel
• Electric vehicle charging points
• Cooked hot food and hot drinks for consumption on the premises
• Access to a free-of-charge telephone for emergency use
• Free wifi
• Free power points available for device charging
• Access for those carrying out duties on behalf of the Secretary of State for Transport

There is a formula for the number of parking spaces and toilets required. The actual design of the site, including how the requirements are met, is down to the operator, who funds the construction and operation themselves. That's one of the reasons why service areas on junctions were popular for a long time - the operator can serve both directions, potentially on two routes, with one site. They've been out of favour since 2008.

More information than any normal human being would want about motorway and trunk road services is here: https://motorwayservices.uk/

Until 1992, motorway service areas were planned by the government and leased out to whichever operator won the bid. This was intended to prevent the same operator from owning two or more sites in a row.

With the subsequent removal of government intervention, private developers are now taking advantage of failing MSAs by proposing their own sites very close to existing ones. The most notable example being at Bridgwater where a new unofficial MSA is being proposed literally on the other side of the junction to the existing Moto services. This takes no consideration into the potential confusion this will create for drivers trying to locate the official service area, since the new is designed to be more visible from the motorway.

You could argue that the existing Bridgwater services should close while this new one takes the official MSA title, but with Moto fully owning their site it’s no easy process to just kick them out.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Plenty of people do provided the windows are left open a little and it's not for long so the air is still cool from the aircon. Plus many modern cars can leave the aircon running, particularly EVs.

However, it's a bit moot - if it says no dogs, then no dogs. If you have a dog, you need to find something else to do with it or not become a customer. Other people have no obligation, moral or legal, to accommodate your decision to (a) get a dog as a pet, and (b) take it with you on your journey. The only dogs that must be permitted are bona-fide service dogs e.g. guide dogs for blind people, hearing dogs and similar (and not the laughable "emotional support animals" people in the US like to make up as a thing - are any pets *not* for emotional support?)

To be fair, the way the woman was fawning over her mutt it probably was an "emotional support animal" for her. Doesn't mean everyone else wants to put up with the germs though.

 

[Noddy]

From 2008 to 2022 they were merely 'not preferred', but could still be built if other factors were in their favour. Since 2022, they've only been allowed if no other site is viable.

Rotherham services is due to open in January on a junction. Sawtry services are due to open next year on a junction. And even more bizarrely Welcome Break have permission to open a new services on M5 J24. Which already has Moto Bridgwater services on it! I have no idea how the signage is going to work there. So the not allowed seems pretty easily bypassed!

@Bletchleyite

We’ve already had the three times the price discussion! Are there even spoons on any MSA?

Not sure where you get three times the price from. Fish and chips at spoons is about £8, at Tebay it’s about £11, and this is the most expensive item in the hot meals selection-all the others are under £10. Quality is clearly subjective but personally I would say it’s far nicer. And certainly better than a £7 or £8 on a burger or chicken from one of the major fast food outlets at other service stations.

Without a doubt I prefer a Maccies or a Leon than their pub food.

I was exaggerating a bit at three times the price but I find it no better than Spoons and it is more expensive.

So far as I am concerned Rugby (for example) is excellent and beats any of the pretentious Westmorland ones into a cocked hat.

 

[TheTallOne]

The problem with glocs services and tebay services is they are hyped up. If they can't meet that hype, it isn't good.

We know what to expect at the average service station!

I've had cold chips from the quick cafe at Glocs - not sure how when they're under a hot lamp!

My parents have had cold full English breakfasts at Tebay. I think that issue is because you have to queue to pay AFTER the food is plated up.

Plus a lot of places these days, restaurants included, don't heat the plates. Basics!

 

[PTR 444]

And even more bizarrely Welcome Break have permission to open a new services on M5 J24. Which already has Moto Bridgwater services on it! I have no idea how the signage is going to work there.

If the Welcome Break services goes ahead, I think a sensible compromise (pending discussions with both operators) would be for National Highways to only sign the existing Moto services on the northbound M5, and the new Welcome Break service area on the southbound side. Effectively this creates a double-sided service area that just happens to have a roundabout plonked between the two.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Deleted- I made the same joke yesterday and it wasn't funny then either!

 

[PeterC]

We’ve already had the three times the price discussion! Are there even spoons on any MSA?

Beaconsfield

 

[Meerkat]

Beaconsfield

I found Beaconsfield really awkward to find a way into and around in the car, in the dark and rain. Even worse than Cobham.
Beaconsfield has a Spoons, and some sort of curry place which meant that the whole place smelled amazing - light years ahead of that awful sickly Subway smell at many MSAs.
I look on the map/google for the layouts of MSAs - I want them to be a glorified layby layout like Warwick. Motorway to parking space really quickly (I usually dont park near the building as I want the quick stomp to the loos and back to wake up and get muscles moving again.)
Norton Canes is in a convenient place but a real palaver to get in and out of northbound, and a convoluted route to the loos that makes you walk into hordes of people piling off coaches (does the coach still go toll free if it stops at Norton Canes?). I just want a fast, direct, route to the loos, and an M&S for a wrap.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The other good one for the offering is the relatively poorly known "Poplar 2000" site, now run by Moto and just known as Lymm, at the M6-M56 junction. It's off the motorway at a roundabout. Unlike most it's an open air area with a "proper" separate McDs, a Spoons-a-like pub (not actually Spoons) and a few other things e.g. M&S Food and Smiths (trucker oriented in its offering, it also sells stuff like hi-vis clothing). It's aimed at truckers but cars are now welcome.

(The slightly odd name is because there used to be a truckstop locally called Poplar, which was relocated to the present site in 2000)