Motorway hold ups

[al78]

No, the correct thing to do is to move over at the first red "X" sign.

https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/advice/driving-advice/zip-merging/

 

[bramling]

It’s those that sit in lane 4 of an empty motorway that annoy me! To be seen every evening south of Luton on the M1 or south of J3 on the M40. Infuriating.

Interesting how the standard of driving gets worse the nearer one gets to London. The A1(M) is the same, although in this case there’s no 4-lane sections. One bit which is particularly annoying is going south at Welwyn where is transitions from two to three lanes, originally the extra lane used to start on the right-hand side, then overnight it changed to the left for no apparent reason - so now it almost seems to encourage people in lane 1 to make an arbitrary choice to continue in lane 2 when they shouldn’t be. What idiot thought that one up?!

 

[Puffing Devil]

No, the correct thing to do is to move over at the first red "X" sign.

Where provided!

https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/advice/driving-advice/zip-merging/

It's illegal to continue in a lane with the Red Cross. You would have to Zip Merge prior to the X.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It's illegal to continue in a lane with the Red Cross. You would have to Zip Merge prior to the X.

Not only that but I believe the cameras are now turned on above red Xs, so you would be guaranteed a penalty if you drove under one.

 

[PeterC]

https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/advice/driving-advice/zip-merging/

The red X is not a warning of a future obstruction, it means that the lane is closed NOW. That is when you merge, not whern are within yards of the broken down vehicle.

Remember that are responding to a post about closed lanes not about lanes merging.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The red X is not a warning of a future obstruction, it means that the lane is closed NOW. That is when you merge, not whern are within yards of the broken down vehicle.

Indeed, the warning is the diagonal arrows on that lane several gantries back. Given that those normally mean "move now anticipating an obstruction", maybe that signage needs revisiting.

 

[HOOVER29]

Interesting how the standard of driving gets worse the nearer one gets to London

Now if I had a quid every time I said that while driving down south lol.
Notice it as I hit Newbury/Basingstoke on the A339.
There are so many cars on the roads around Basingstoke that haven’t got directional indicators fitted as standard, just an orange lens cover it’s unbelievable. Then they have the audacity to honk the horn when you so much as drive anywhere near “their” space. As for the dingleberries on the M3 between the A287 & Basingstoke. On a Sunday evening it’s a lottery. It’s “I’m going to have a nice beer if we survive the journey home”.
Then north of Newbury I can hit the cruise & relax again, until I get to the car park from hell otherwise known as the M42.

 

[bramling]

Now if I had a quid every time I said that while driving down south lol.
Notice it as I hit Newbury/Basingstoke on the A339.
There are so many cars on the roads around Basingstoke that haven’t got directional indicators fitted as standard, just an orange lens cover it’s unbelievable. Then they have the audacity to honk the horn when you so much as drive anywhere near “their” space. As for the dingleberries on the M3 between the A287 & Basingstoke. On a Sunday evening it’s a lottery. It’s “I’m going to have a nice beer if we survive the journey home”.
Then north of Newbury I can hit the cruise & relax again, until I get to the car park from hell otherwise known as the M42.

Driving around most of the north, with a couple of localised exceptions, is a dream compared to the south-east, and it’s not just because the roads are emptier, the standard of driving is so much better. London and the Home Counties is the pits.

 

[Bald Rick]

Driving around most of the north, with a couple of localised exceptions, is a dream compared to the south-east, and it’s not just because the roads are emptier, the standard of driving is so much better. London and the Home Counties is the pits.

I generally find drivers more decisive in the south!but agree, the general standard is worse. There seems to be some sort of border control at J11 of the M1.

 

[Howardh]

Smart motorway - M60 - last week I went under the signs which read "50" so we all slowed down to 50. The next bank of signs were all completely blank....does that mean the restrictions are still compulsory or lifted? Most kept to 50 until the third bank...but anyone joining (Eccles I think) approaching the blank signs could assume there's no restriction (unless the sliproad had a "50" sign displaying) as they wouldn't have gone under the first.
Also - if the very last bank is blank and the smart part ends, and the future road signs are 70; does that mean you are still under the restriction and if you are...until what point??

 

[edwin_m]

Everywhere I recall at the end of a managed motorway there's a national speed limit sign with a plate saying "end of active traffic management" or similar. This gets painted out if there is a road works speed limit in force.

 

[bramling]

I generally find drivers more decisive in the south!but agree, the general standard is worse. There seems to be some sort of border control at J11 of the M1.

I rarely use the M1 south of Harlington so maybe it gets even worse south of Luton, but I’d say the “border” is at Melton Keynes - even in the middle of the night a pleasant journey turns into a pain. On the A1 that border is Stevenage!

 

[PeterC]

Smart motorway - M60 - last week I went under the signs which read "50" so we all slowed down to 50. The next bank of signs were all completely blank....does that mean the restrictions are still compulsory or lifted? Most kept to 50 until the third bank...but anyone joining (Eccles I think) approaching the blank signs could assume there's no restriction (unless the sliproad had a "50" sign displaying) as they wouldn't have gone under the first.
Also - if the very last bank is blank and the smart part ends, and the future road signs are 70; does that mean you are still under the restriction and if you are...until what point??

If the sign is blank it means that the restriction is lifted unless it is blank because it is off line due to the work causing the restriction. You will know the difference when the speeding ticket arrives.

 

[EssexGonzo]

In terms of variable speed limits, they're good if everyone's on the ball, and the associated speed cameras inevitably mean that once each BMW driver (sorry) has been ticketed a couple of times, they learn that anything lit up in red circles is there to be obeyed, so it does seem more and more people are taking notice. The problem does indeed seem to be those people who aren't paying too much attention, but then realise the problem and panic, thereby slamming on their brakes just as they go under the signs. Occasionally, if there's very poor visibility, it's hard to make out the difference between a 60 and 50, as they are visually quite similar in poor conditions, but this shouldn't result in much slamming on of brakes. Other than those 2 sets of numbers, everything else should - and I say "should" - be obvious enough.

And those gantry speed cameras can be very brutal - I've been cruising at the displayed limit and seen cars get "flashed" whilst only very gradually overtaking me. Indeed, I have also been snapped whilst just under the limit, although obviously nothing ever came of that! Some of the major motorways have them every few hundred yards, especially the M25 around J10-J16 ish, so the authorities effectively use it as a system to ensure a set average speed is enforced, without any acceleration and braking between the camera gantries.




1. This does exist. It's called radar cruise control (other fancy terms available, usually with the word "adaptive" in them somewhere). Nothing to do with satellites unless it also links to GPS for some reason or other.
2. Manufacturers' test cars often use a black and white vinyl pattern to prevent the shape and styling of new vehicles being so easy to pick out. This tends to be fairly ineffective and draws a lot of attention to themselves, so it's a bit pointless, but it's a big thing at the moment. You might have seen this, but on the other hand, I'm not sure why an 18 plate would have been on such a car.

A massive big-up for radar cruise control. My wife has just bought a car that has it as standard (she didn't choose it as an option) but having used it in conjunction with the lane-keeping function I would seek it out and pay for it in any future car.

It takes the stress out of busy roads. It latches onto the car in front and you can choose the distance/risk. The lane keeping helps you to stop moving sideways in narrow roadworks lanes and it makes life so much easier. If it encounters conditions where it can't operate safely, it makes enough noise to get you to take control of the car immediately - but that's rare. Also works down to stop/start when stationary. I think this is called Level 2 autonomy with Level 5 being "completely hands off and read a book". I can't wait for more of this stuff to make driving in our crowded country easier. I reckon that congestion will also ease once decision-making is taken away from the irrational, emotional and angry pink squishy thing behind the wheel!

 

[HOOVER29]

I watched an old Top Gear the other night where Mr Clarkson drove from Cornwall where he watched the sunset to East Anglia where he watched it rise. He drove a Jag. That had a cruise control system fitted that allowed him to “latch” onto the car he was following. From old granny mode 200 yrds away to full on Audi driver a few feet away. When the car in front slowed his did & when it speeded up so did his.
In a couple of years time the only part we will have to play, apart from filling up or plugging the charger in is sitting in the car, buckling up & typing in a destination. The car will then do the rest. Not sure we are ready for that yet. I’m definitely not.

 

[tsr]

A massive big-up for radar cruise control. My wife has just bought a car that has it as standard (she didn't choose it as an option) but having used it in conjunction with the lane-keeping function I would seek it out and pay for it in any future car.

It takes the stress out of busy roads. It latches onto the car in front and you can choose the distance/risk. The lane keeping helps you to stop moving sideways in narrow roadworks lanes and it makes life so much easier. If it encounters conditions where it can't operate safely, it makes enough noise to get you to take control of the car immediately - but that's rare. Also works down to stop/start when stationary. I think this is called Level 2 autonomy with Level 5 being "completely hands off and read a book". I can't wait for more of this stuff to make driving in our crowded country easier. I reckon that congestion will also ease once decision-making is taken away from the irrational, emotional and angry pink squishy thing behind the wheel!

I quite agree with the vast majority of what you’re saying. I never thought I’d be one for cruise control, but my current car has it, and I use it all the time on motorways and love it. Mine has a very responsive set of controls which are in quite an ergonomic place by the steering wheel, so they essentially act as a finger throttle, so I am always using that to get the optimum speed and a safe distance to the car in front, all the while genuinely thinking “if only a radar system was doing it for me”! So I too will be looking to hunt it down in the future.

I do worry a little about lane keeping systems, as I have a funny feeling that many places just aren’t sufficiently demarcated to allow it to function safely, and that eventually most people will leave the lane keeping turned on for too long, enter such an area, ignore the warnings and sideswipe someone. There are many lane markings on my commute which are far far too narrow for most cars, or simply fade to oblivion if it’s even slightly wet (I also drive around the Crawley area a fair bit, and the local council or contractor clearly hasn’t ever tried to use any of the road markings in bad weather - they become literally completely invisible).

I watched an old Top Gear the other night where Mr Clarkson drove from Cornwall where he watched the sunset to East Anglia where he watched it rise. He drove a Jag. That had a cruise control system fitted that allowed him to “latch” onto the car he was following. From old granny mode 200 yrds away to full on Audi driver a few feet away. When the car in front slowed his did & when it speeded up so did his.
In a couple of years time the only part we will have to play, apart from filling up or plugging the charger in is sitting in the car, buckling up & typing in a destination. The car will then do the rest. Not sure we are ready for that yet. I’m definitely not.

I’d be 100% happy to let my car drive me through Home Counties towns during peak time, but I think a lot of people, myself included, would miss back-country B road driving on a nice day. Which, perversely, would probably result in most people deciding to drive in relatively dangerous areas whilst having had relatively less driving experience, so the accident rate would probably sky-rocket at weekends and in good weather.

 

[edwin_m]

Another one for radar-assisted cruise control (I don't have lane following). Setting it to the figure on the signs in an active motorway area* it will keep a safe distance as the traffic speeds up and slows down, but not go over the speed the cameras are set to.

*And, of course, adjusting it if the posted speed changes. A version that reads and obeys the signs itself is probably already available on some models.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

If the sign is blank it means that the restriction is lifted unless it is blank because it is off line due to the work causing the restriction. You will know the difference when the speeding ticket arrives.

Every time I've seen restrictions on a motorway, the sign at the end of the restriction displayed the national speed limit sign as an indication that normal running was resumed.

It therefore follows that a blank sign following a restrictive speed should be treated as still displaying the restrictive speed; if a second sign is also blank then it is probable that normal running has been resumed as it is unlikely that two consecutive signs would fail.

 

[PeterC]

Every time I've seen restrictions on a motorway, the sign at the end of the restriction displayed the national speed limit sign as an indication that normal running was resumed.

It therefore follows that a blank sign following a restrictive speed should be treated as still displaying the restrictive speed; if a second sign is also blank then it is probable that normal running has been resumed as it is unlikely that two consecutive signs would fail.

They seem to be better at displaying an NSL sign at the end of a restriction these days but it is still hit and miss in some areas. When variable limits were first introduced on the northern section of the M25 it was unusual to see an NSL sign at all.

 

[Bald Rick]

Every time I've seen restrictions on a motorway, the sign at the end of the restriction displayed the national speed limit sign as an indication that normal running was resumed.

It therefore follows that a blank sign following a restrictive speed should be treated as still displaying the restrictive speed; if a second sign is also blank then it is probable that normal running has been resumed as it is unlikely that two consecutive signs would fail.

I believe that is the principle. However, any prosecution for a speeding offence via a variable speed limit camera when the (sub 70mph) variable speed is not displayed on that gantry would surely fail.

 

[IanD]

This is the correct thing to do. Moving over a mile in advance just extends the constriction by one mile, which reduces road capacity and means everyone takes longer to get through the constriction. Look up zip merging. Unfortunately too many people have the irrational mentality of queue jumping in such a situation, so because of human irrational thinking (as is often), we end up with a sub-optimal situation for everyone.

Don't get me started on the self-appointed merge monitors who deliberately move to block anyone choosing to act in the proper manner.

 

[nlogax]

https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/advice/driving-advice/zip-merging/

Zip merging is one of those wonderful things that only works properly when everyone practices it. It should be introduced as a concept early on at the driving theory stage.

 

[Lucan]

It therefore follows that a blank sign following a restrictive speed should be treated as still displaying the restrictive speed

I agree but would put it another way : a blank sign should be treated as if it did not exist at all, therefore whatever previous speed limit you saw still applies. To treat a blank electronic sign as a de-restriction would be like interpreting any bare pole that you happened to see as indicating the end of a speed limit in an old-style signage area.

 

[edwin_m]

I agree but would put it another way : a blank sign should be treated as if it did not exist at all, therefore whatever previous speed limit you saw still applies. To treat a blank electronic sign as a de-restriction would be like interpreting any bare pole that you happened to see as indicating the end of a speed limit in an old-style signage area.

I don't think I'd treat it that way. A bare pole could be intended to carry any sign or none (removed as no longer relevant), but a blank display is something that ought to be able to display a speed but isn't doing so. I would guess most drivers would assume one blank gantry could be due to some kind of local failure but two in a row either means the restriction has been lifted or the whole lot has gone down and the active traffic management is no longer operational.

 

[AM9]

I don't think I'd treat it that way. A bare pole could be intended to carry any sign or none (removed as no longer relevant), but a blank display is something that ought to be able to display a speed but isn't doing so. I would guess most drivers would assume one blank gantry could be due to some kind of local failure but two in a row either means the restriction has been lifted or the whole lot has gone down and the active traffic management is no longer operational.

So, if travelling on the motorway at night and for the first time, how would you know there was even a gantry there? Unless the signs are lit, then to a driver, effectively they aren't there so no change from the last working one.

 

[edwin_m]

So, if travelling on the motorway at night and for the first time, how would you know there was even a gantry there? Unless the signs are lit, then to a driver, effectively they aren't there so no change from the last working one.

The speed camera sign is retro-reflective, I think there is usually another sign with the gantry number, and even if neither I think the collective headlights would light it up enough to make it discernable even if the motorway is unlit.

 

[bramling]

I believe that is the principle. However, any prosecution for a speeding offence via a variable speed limit camera when the (sub 70mph) variable speed is not displayed on that gantry would surely fail.

And, presumably, a lot of people would get flashed leading to it being too much administration to put together all the prosecution notices? In the same way that many motorway cameras are reputedly set to a rather higher level above the normal threshold.

 

[nlogax]

In the same way that many motorway cameras are reputedly set to a rather higher level above the normal threshold.

I've always been told that motorway cameras are mostly set to 10% of the posted limit + 2mph - with the exception of NSL limits under variable speed sections which are set slightly higher. Is that not correct?

 

[bramling]

I've always been told that motorway cameras are mostly set to 10% of the posted limit + 2mph - with the exception of NSL limits under variable speed sections which are set slightly higher. Is that not correct?

In all honesty, I don’t know hence floating it as a question, however I’ve heard it suggested from multiple sources that the threshold is often much higher. Which would tally with that I’ve never been “done”.

 

[Cowley]

I've always been told that motorway cameras are mostly set to 10% of the posted limit + 2mph - with the exception of NSL limits under variable speed sections which are set slightly higher. Is that not correct?

How does it work with average speed check cameras then?
With normal cameras you have a picture with the number plate taken of the rear of the vehicle as it passes a fixed camera over the limit (plus an extra %). But is an average speed limit system capable of showing shots of a vehicle travelling over a longer distance at a speed above the permitted limit?

I suppose what I’m also asking is has anyone on here (or anyone you know of) ever been prosecuted for excessive speed through an average speed limited section of road?
I don’t think I’ve ever heard of anyone being prosecuted. Not that I can think of anyway.