Motorail Services Trivia

[Mollington St]

Just been scanning and listing a full run of Motorail Brochures , Guides and Timetables from 1967 through the 1970s right up to 1992

I have illustrated a few, the rest will be eventually on my own web site - Transport Past Times

If anyone wants any extra scans or specific pages , i will do my best to be able to add this wonderful thread.

The Motorail Network Map is from the Summer 1981 issue

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Motorail Route Maps

The First image is the Map in the 1967 Guide , followed by the 1973 , the 1981 , and then we see by 1988 quite a reduction then by 1992 just the simple North/South.

Hope to get the rest of the years in between scan and onto my site - Transport Past Times

 

[zwk500]

I never realise motorail operated to Newhaven, despite living nearby for quite a long time (although long after Motorail stopped).

For the services advertising cross-channel destinations, presumably the trains themselves didn't cross the channel? Did you just unload from the train at the quayside then join the ferry queue as a regular car passenger?

 

[Gloster]

I have a vague and possibly erroneous recollection that in the early 1980s there was also a summer Saturday Worcester-St Austell Motorail that was unusual in that it also carried non-Motorail passenger: the Down service was one of the first daytime summer Saturday day trains. I am not sure if it continued on to Penzance after the pilot had removed the carflats at St Austell. It had once also served Totnes, but it may have been pure Motorail then.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Sep 2022 ==

I never realise motorail operated to Newhaven, despite living nearby for quite a long time (although long after Motorail stopped).

For the services advertising cross-channel destinations, presumably the trains themselves didn't cross the channel? Did you just unload from the train at the quayside then join the ferry queue as a regular car passenger?

The drivers would collect their cars off the train and then drive them on to the ferry: the wagons did not leave BR. It was still a lot easier than a long drive to the port, a short respite on the ferry and then a long drive in France. I suspect that you probably had, at least, some sort of guaranteed booking, the ferry also being part of the BR network.

 

[WesternLancer]

I never realise motorail operated to Newhaven, despite living nearby for quite a long time (although long after Motorail stopped).

For the services advertising cross-channel destinations, presumably the trains themselves didn't cross the channel? Did you just unload from the train at the quayside then join the ferry queue as a regular car passenger?

Yes, I'd not realised Newhaven had been used either. It was interesting to see that. I guess it was a convenient port for services that could avoid London by going on the western side, and thus better option for the railway than sending people and their cars to Kent ports. Longer sea crossing though, albeit closer to Paris so shorter drive for that destination.

Never heard of the car carriers crossing the channel on train ferry routes however. I think only passenger related such service was the Night Ferry (no cars AFAIK)

I think I am correct in saying that the only rail vehicle carrying ferries were Dover - Dunkirk and Harwich - Hook.

 

[zwk500]

Yes, I'd not realised Newhaven had been used either. It was interesting to see that. I guess it was a convenient port for services that could avoid London by going on the western side, and thus better option for the railway than sending people and their cars to Kent ports. Longer sea crossing though, albeit closer to Paris so shorter drive for that destination.

Also presumably as a less busy port more convenient for the loading/unloading operations involved with Motorail.

Never heard of the car carriers crossing the channel on train ferry routes however. I think only passenger related such service was the Night Ferry (no cars AFAIK)

I think I am correct in saying that the only rail vehicle carrying ferries were Dover - Dunkirk and Harwich - Hook.

Cheers, thought this was the case. I think I've seen film of cars being carried on the train ferries but only on their own wheels, not on wagons.

 

[Gloster]

The only car carrying wagons that used the train-ferries were those taking vehicles for export and, I think, occasionally military soft-tops heading for BAOR. Even that declined and it became more and more common for vehicles to be offloaded at the English port and driven on to the ferry. (Or pushed, as illustrated by a photo in Patrick Ransome-Wallis’ book of a Triumph 1300 being pushed on by a railwayman.)

 

[WesternLancer]

Also presumably as a less busy port more convenient for the loading/unloading operations involved with Motorail.

Yes, I'd also thought that too.

 

[hexagon789]

I have a vague and possibly erroneous recollection that in the early 1980s there was also a summer Saturday Worcester-St Austell Motorail that was unusual in that it also carried non-Motorail passenger: the Down service was one of the first daytime summer Saturday day trains. I am not sure if it continued on to Penzance after the pilot had removed the carflats at St Austell. It had once also served Totnes, but it may have been pure Motorail then.

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The drivers would collect their cars off the train and then drive them on to the ferry: the wagons did not leave BR. It was still a lot easier than a long drive to the port, a short respite on the ferry and then a long drive in France. I suspect that you probably had, at least, some sort of guaranteed booking, the ferry also being part of the BR network.

50004 St Austell { 1B74 0705 Worcester SH ~ St Austell Motorail, then on to Penzance} F594 22 July 1978 old slides # S Widdowson 241

Explore 50008"thunderer"'s 16994 photos on Flickr!

flic.kr

50004 at St Austell with 1B54 the 0705 Worcester Shrub Hill-St Austell Motorail (the main train continuing to Penzance), on 22/07/1978. Photo credit Stephen Widdowson flickr

 

[Mollington St]

Here is the Newhaven Service Details as per the 1967 Guide and Timetable

 

[gg1]

There were Motorail vans on the Euston to Inverness sleeper when I used it in 1985.

And on the daytime Clansman service too, they lasted into the 90s I think.

 

[Cheshire Scot]

Inverness via Stirling to Ely/ Dover/ Brockenhurst/ Bristol/ Newton Abbot- a kind of Multiple Coast Unexpress with multiple 'portions'?

Two separate Anglo-Scottish trains from Stirling. Ely had completely passed me by, was it detached from an East Coast service at Peterborough?

They tended to run on different days of the week. Inverness and Stirling were separate originating trains.
From Stirling Bristol was a portion of the Newton Abbot train, and Dover paired with Kensington on some days of the week. Whilst I do not recall the Ely one it obviously did run but would have nothing to pair with so must have been a full train, perhaps once a week?

What about the service to Fort William.Where did that run from and from when until when

I don't have the dates but it was fairly late addition to the Motorail Network during Inter City days and only ran for a few years until the Sleeper network contracted in size. .

 

[Magdalia]

Initially Stirling to Inverness was introduced as Stirling (and Perth) to inverness and return Motorail service with limited second class accommodation (one BSO for non motorail passengers (39 seats)). Fairly soon (next timetable change?) it transformed into a morning Glasgow to Inverness and early afternoon (14.xx) Inverness to Glasgow additionals filling gaps in the regular timetable and conveying carflats from/to Stirling

According to my records I travelled from Perth to Stirling on the 1448 Inverness-Glasgow one day in June 1980, with 3 match wagons on the back conveying 7 cars.

Whilst I do not recall the Ely one it obviously did run but would have nothing to pair with so must have been a full train, perhaps once a week?

This started in 1974 as a Cambridge-Edinburgh departing 2345 Saturdays only. The southbound service was 2210 from Edinburgh on Sundays arriving Cambridge 0539 on Monday.

In 1978 and 1979 the train ran Harwich/Cambridge-Stirling. I can't find whether the Harwich portion went via Cambridge.

Starting/terminating Ely was from 1980 onwards, I think it was evicted from Cambridge for the resignalling work. In 1980 it was northbound Thu+Sat, southbound Fri+Sun. 1981 and 1982 became Ely-Inverness, 1981 was Mon+Wed+Fri northbound, Tue+Thu+Sat southbound. 1982 was advertised Tue southbound and Wed northbound only, using the same train as the York service, but may have got pulled because of the strikes.

 

[Mollington St]

Just taking things across the Channel for a moment - Here are two Examples of 1970s British Rail/ Sealink Handbill Guides for Continental Motorail Services .
All Maps show services from Dover

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And now a few SNCF French Railways Motorail Guides and Timetables to complete the journey .

I will as i have indicated try and get as many as i can scanned and listed on my site - Transport Past Times

 

[GS250]

And on the daytime Clansman service too, they lasted into the 90s I think.

Were the vans rated for 110mph? Or was the entire consist limited to 100?

Thought that service was timed at 110 on the electrified part of its journey?

 

[Cheshire Scot]

Were the vans rated for 110mph? Or was the entire consist limited to 100?

Thought that service was timed at 110 on the electrified part of its journey?

Only 110 when combined with a Glasgow service and without Motorail.

 

[BrianW]

Just been scanning and listing a full run of Motorail Brochures , Guides and Timetables from 1967 through the 1970s right up to 1992

I have illustrated a few, the rest will be eventually on my own web site - Transport Past Times

If anyone wants any extra scans or specific pages , i will do my best to be able to add this wonderful thread.

The Motorail Network Map is from the Summer 1981 issue

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Sep 2022 ==

Motorail Route Maps

The First image is the Map in the 1967 Guide , followed by the 1973 , the 1981 , and then we see by 1988 quite a reduction then by 1992 just the simple North/South.

Hope to get the rest of the years in between scan and onto my site - Transport Past Times

Just taking things across the Channel for a moment - Here are two Examples of 1970s British Rail/ Sealink Handbill Guides for Continental Motorail Services .
All Maps show services from Dover

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Sep 2022 ==

And now a few SNCF French Railways Motorail Guides and Timetables to complete the journey .

I will as i have indicated try and get as many as i can scanned and listed on my site - Transport Past Times

A fabulous piece of work you're undertaking. The documents are lovely in themselves, and the chronology illustrates the ups-and-downs and almost continuous changes to try to keep abreast of how the 'market' was being seen, promoted and served. Thank you for sharing here.

 

[Trainfan2019]

Thanks for uploading the scans.

Interesting that Sheffield was served by motorail in the past. Presume this would be platform 1 at Sheffield. As the station front has changed a lot since motorail days, where was the access for cars to get on the train?

 

[Cheshire Scot]

This started in 1974 as a Cambridge-Edinburgh departing 2345 Saturdays only. The southbound service was 2210 from Edinburgh on Sundays arriving Cambridge 0539 on Monday.

In 1978 and 1979 the train ran Harwich/Cambridge-Stirling. I can't find whether the Harwich portion went via Cambridge.

Starting/terminating Ely was from 1980 onwards, I think it was evicted from Cambridge for the resignalling work. In 1980 it was northbound Thu+Sat, southbound Fri+Sun. 1981 and 1982 became Ely-Inverness, 1981 was Mon+Wed+Fri northbound, Tue+Thu+Sat southbound. 1982 was advertised Tue southbound and Wed northbound only, using the same train as the York service, but may have got pulled because of the strikes.

Thanks for this interesting detail which fills a gap in my knowledge.

 

[Mollington St]

Just a few more Motorail Brochures and Timetables from across the years

See how the advertising styles change - Starting with 1971 , then the quite iconic 1976, then 1981/82 before the Ford Sierra in 1987

I will keep adding more to here and my site at - Transport Past Times

 

[GS250]

Just a few more Motorail Brochures and Timetables from across the years

See how the advertising styles change - Starting with 1971 , then the quite iconic 1976, then 1981/82 before the Ford Sierra in 1987

Great work. Seems a world ago now. I guess the irony is it was cars like the Ford Sierra that helped drive the nail into the motorail coffin. At last there was a reasonably priced comfy family car that was trustworthy enough to drive a family of 4 plus luggage to Scotland. Ditto its competitor the Vauxhall Cavalier too. Before this.....you were usually living in hope than expectation!

 

[greyman42]

I remember a Motorail service departing York from a southbound facing bay platform in the late 70s (now platform 1). What service might this have been?

 

[30907]

I have a vague and possibly erroneous recollection that in the early 1980s there was also a summer Saturday Worcester-St Austell Motorail that was unusual in that it also carried non-Motorail passenger: the Down service was one of the first daytime summer Saturday day trains. I am not sure if it continued on to Penzance after the pilot had removed the carflats at St Austell. It had once also served Totnes, but it may have been pure Motorail then.

Not erroneous, as others have said! It was killed off by the opening of the Avonmouth section of the M5 IIRC.

Yes, I'd not realised Newhaven had been used either. It was interesting to see that. I guess it was a convenient port for services that could avoid London by going on the western side, and thus better option for the railway than sending people and their cars to Kent ports. Longer sea crossing though, albeit closer to Paris so shorter drive for that destination.

Not sure why the switch from Dover was made (there is a Newcastle-Dover in 1963).
It may be that Dover was getting too busy, or that the complications of the short sea routes (Dover or Folkestone, Calais or Boulogne?) were problematic.
Or they may have wanted to steer traffic onto the newly-introduced RORO at Newhaven?
Newhaven has the advantage of having rail and ferry close together, anyway.

 

[Grumpy]

I remember a Motorail service departing York from a southbound facing bay platform in the late 70s (now platform 1). What service might this have been?

In the late 70's I caught a Motorail service from Sheffield to Newton Abbot. I believe this had started at York. I recall that it ran with a Brush Type 2 throughout.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

I remember a Motorail service departing York from a southbound facing bay platform in the late 70s (now platform 1). What service might this have been?

Probably one to Newton Abbot as @Grumpy has just pointed out, or just maybe one to Dover.



(Image shows schematic map of the UK Motorail network. Source is a February 2021 Twitter post by @timmydunn ).

 

[Harvester]

I’ve got a rather wonderful brochure from 1964 entitled British Railways Car Carrying Services which must have been published just before the Motorail branding and even the BR double arrow symbol. I attach photos of a few pages of which one shows the routes……

I can well remember the Day “Anglo-Scottish Car Carrier” when it was introduced in 1960. As a youngster I was amazed to see such a formation of vans and coaches, and the added attraction was the Kings Cross A4 which usually brought the train into Newcastle.

IIRC this was the first Day car carrier service. It began running on 30 May 1960, and pre-dated the SR Day carrier service to Oakhampton by a few weeks.

 

[Springs Branch]

. . . . I guess the irony is it was cars like the Ford Sierra that helped drive the nail into the motorail coffin. At last there was a reasonably priced comfy family car that was trustworthy enough to drive a family of 4 plus luggage to Scotland. Ditto its competitor the Vauxhall Cavalier too. Before this.....you were usually living in hope than expectation!

I remember a debate in the late 1970s with my best friend and his father about a proposed family holiday on the Isle of Skye (on which I had been invited to join them). Would his fairly new Morris Marina make it all the way from Wigan to Skye and back with a car-load of passengers and luggage, or should we use the Motorail to Inverness?

In the end the cost and timing of the Motorail option was prohibitive, so we drove all the way. To its credit, the Marina made it as far as our digs at Uig before it broke down. Lucky there was a mechanic at the local garage in Uig back then.

In 1972, I recall travelling from Newton-le-Willows to Inverness by a Motorail service, in a sleeper carriage.

One thing I wondered regarding the Newton-le-Willows to Inverness and St Austell Motorails . . . .

When the northern WCML was electrified in the early 1970s, the section between Winwick Jn and Golborne Jn via Earlestown was also electrified.

It's sometimes speculated that the reasons BR wired this bit were either to allow slower WCML freights to be diverted via Earlestown and let faster traffic overtake on the main line (but there has always been quadruple track most of the way from Acton Grange Jn to the Wigan area which gave ample opportunity for overtaking), or for use by WCML local services which could call at Earlestown & Newton-le-Willows stations (but the very limited DMU stopping service had been axed before electrification).

Maybe one of the prime motivations for electrifying via Earlestown was to allow electrically-hauled Motorails to/from both the South-West and Scotland to access the terminal at Newton-le-Willows without a traction change for "the last mile"?

Certainly, the two east-facing Motorail sidings at NLW were originally equipped with OHLE (subsequently removed) and the 1972 Warrington PSB resignalling in the area included signalling for propelling and shunt moves into and out of the Motorail sidings.

Unfortunately it seems the last northbound and southbound Motorails from NLW ran in summer 1972, so the terminal never saw an electrically-hauled Motorail (electric trains began running on that part of the WCML in summer 1973).

It's hard to be too critical of BR for wasted expenditure here - the planning, design and installation of OHLE and new signalling would have lead times significantly beyond the timeframe of commercial decisions to rationalise the Motorail network.

 

[daodao]

Maybe one of the prime motivations for electrifying via Earlestown was to allow electrically-hauled Motorails to/from both the South-West and Scotland to access the terminal at Newton-le-Willows without a traction change for "the last mile"?

The Newton-le-Willows to South-West England Motorail service ran via the North and West line and Maindee curve, not via Birmingham, so could only have been hauled electrically as far south as Crewe. However, BR was not averse to using electric traction for short sectors then and changing engines for through trains, e.g. at Birmingham New Street and Crewe, rather than running diesel-hauled trains under the wires as now. When through trains were re-introduced from Manchester to Cardiff via the North and West line in 1984, they were electrically hauled from Piccadilly to Crewe.

 

[sprinterguy]

What about the service to Fort William.Where did that run from and from when until when

I don't have the dates but it was fairly late addition to the Motorail Network during Inter City days and only ran for a few years until the Sleeper network contracted in size.

I haven't been able to find an exact date when the Fort William Motorail service commenced, but it was when the Fort William Sleeper became a stand-alone service, circa 1992. A pair of vans from/to Euston comprised the Motorail provision as far as I can recall.

It was withdrawn by Intercity at the same time as the rest of the national Motorail network, on 28th May 1995 as a prelude to privatisation.

 

[Grumpy]

Thanks for uploading the scans.

Interesting that Sheffield was served by motorail in the past. Presume this would be platform 1 at Sheffield. As the station front has changed a lot since motorail days, where was the access for cars to get on the train?

The memory plays tricks (this is 40 years ago) but I think we left the car with railway staff outside the station at the southern end, and we entered the station like ordinary passengers. They loaded the cars onto carflats, not sure where, and the next thing we observed was the carflats being tripped through the station by an 08, to be hooked onto the rear of the train when it arrived from York.
I recall this as being much more civilised than the process later experienced arriving at Crewe off another Motorail service. There we were were marched out of the station, past the Crewe arms, and down to what may have been an old cattle dock. It was dark, approx 11pm, and all the passengers had to stand around for quite a while till the carflats were leisurely tripped over. Then the owners had to get onto the carflats and drive their own cars over some form of bridging boards. Quite scary in the pitch black.

 

[Ken H]

They started adding motorail vans to ordinary trains on the west coast. When we got to the push-pull era, they would be coupled behind the loco when propelling, and also behind the DVT when loco hauling. The car passengers got the benefit of a modern train, not old Mk 1's
They also moved to passengers on service trains and the car trains being a separate train. When the passenger train got to its destination there would be a wait for the slower car train. Especially of the passenger train was an HST!