Motivation for BVE.

[adamp]

Ive always wondered this, if people were to pay for BVE addons like more, and bigger routes would this give alot more motivation?
And also have a big database or website (like the MSTS one) which has all routes and trains, you just pay for that site and your entitled to everything on that site.
Would this work?

 

[Bill EWS]

BVE is 'fun', it generates friendships from all over the World. I (think starting to pay for add-ons would be disasterous. Now, with OpenBVE getting close to be a full working programme and you have both BVE Sim programmes for Free I think making payments for add-ons would build up a lot of problems.

I don't think we would have seen half the trains and routes if the only reason was to make money. That would seem to prove that BVE has it's own motivation and satisfaction. Let's try and keep something free of possible Government, Inland Revenu and V.A.T. interference that everyone can enjoy, however little money they may have.

 

[eezypeazy]

Would this work?

I very much doubt it.

ECML took me the best part of two years worth of my free time to make. Let's say I could have completed it in a year, if I worked on it full-time, and that I had built all the objects myself, without using anyone else's work.

To recompense me for a year, I'd need to earn roughly £50,000 from it (living expenses, travelling, computer outlay, etc). It's been downloaded about 3,000 times. So, each person downloading it would have to pay me about £17 for me to break even.

Then, of course, you need trains. I'm sure that, if some developers provided trains for free, they'd get a bit miffed if route builders sold their wares; so you'd need to buy the trains, too. I don't know how long it takes to build a train, but, taking into account having to collect sounds as well as images, it's going to be time consuming. So I'd expect each train would cost about a tenner - but you could expect to use it on more than one route, I suppose. ECML uses eight trains - let's suppose you have eight other routes you can run them on, so let's attribute the cost of one train to ECML, so, so far, the cost is around £27.

Which means, to own eight routes and eight trains, you're going to spend £216. And, let's say that your favourite developers produce two upgrades a year, you're probably going to need to spend £216 every year (after all, in this scenario, a developer's got to make a living!).

And that, of course, presupposes that the likes of Mackoy, Reschanger and plug-in developers don't start charging for their work, either.

Let's say that the 3,000 downloads of ECML actually represents the entire worldwide BVE community (for ease of the maths - although I suspect that that figure is high, as the downloads includes the upgrades), then you've got a BVE "industry" that's only worth £648,000 a year worldwide. That would just about support a total of thirteen developers. Let's say half of them do trains, and half of them do routes, so you can expect to see only six new routes a year FROM THE WHOLE WORLD. The "volunteer" community is capable and prepared to produce more than that FOR FREE - there's roughly one new route, or an upgrade to a route, every month on average.

The whole ethos of BVE is that it's all copyrighted freeware. Let's leave it that way.

Regards

eezypeazy

 

[guillyman]

Wel I couldn't have put it better myself, eezypeazy! The thing that attracts me about BVE is that it is written from top to bottom by people who do it for the sheer joy! And, believe me, I have only done objects so far, but the immense personal satisfaction experienced when people find your work desirable enough to download and use it is immense, more than money can buy.
Yes, when I first came over to BVE from that "other" simulator I thought, "It's freeware, can't be any good!" but rapidly realised that it was produced totally by people as passionate as I. Just because something is free doesn't necessarily mean that it's inferior, conversely just because something has to be paid for doesn't mean it will be better!
Commercial BVE? No thanks!
Al.

 

[adamp]

Let's say half of them do trains, and half of them do routes, so you can expect to see only six new routes a year FROM THE WHOLE WORLD.

For a start people, it was an idea/question.
And I wouldnt mind that, if they were atleast high quality and big!
I wasnt suggesting full time either, just money as a 'tip', therefore making developers more keane.

If you were getting a small sum of money for putting in (e.g) +2 hours work extra making your routes you would want to do it im sure?
Anyway, obviously my question has been answered.

-Adam

 

[Dennis]

You can pay me if you want :grin:

There are two reasons why I choose to build routes in my spare time;

1.....coding routes is a lot cheaper than building a model railway and has no space limitations

2.....it's not only relaxing and productive but also allows me to expand my skills base - image manipulation for the textures, maths for modelling curves etc etc

I also find it very satisfying to know that what I'm doing may provide some enjoyment for other people but I don't think I could do it as a 'day job' even if the market was big enough.

Out of interest, I've just made a rough calculation of the cost of my published BVE routes on the basis of what I can charge in my current day job for my services and a guestimate of the time spent coding the routes. It works out at a staggering £1500 / km!!

 

[guillyman]

If you were getting a small sum of money for putting in (e.g) +2 hours work extra making your routes you would want to do it im sure?
-Adam

Oh Adam! Don't be so uncouth...!
Al. :grin:

 

[adamp]

Fair enough
Does it require any special programmes you have to buy to make routes?
...Im not going to have a go at making routes when Im literally asking other people to :roll:

-Adam

 

[eezypeazy]

Out of interest, I've just made a rough calculation of the cost of my published BVE routes on the basis of what I can charge in my current day job for my services and a guestimate of the time spent coding the routes. It works out at a staggering £1500 / km!!

You're far more expensive than me! I'm only £450/km!

I think that means I'll win the tender...


--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Fair enough
Does it require any special programmes you have to buy to make routes?
...Im not going to have a go at making routes when Im literally asking other people to :roll:

-Adam

Nope - any text editor will do. But you would be well advised to look at Dennis's Coding Tutorials before you start.

And remember, Adam, you're not alone - you can always get help and advice here, and guillyman may even help you make the objects!

Regards

eezypeazy

 

[guillyman]

I'm only £450/km!
eezypeazy

Cheapskate! :grin:

and guillyman may even help you make the objects!
eezypeazy

We shall have to negotiate a fee! :grin:

Only joking, chaps!
Al.

 

[xc170]

This point may have already been made but anyway the thing that attracted me to bve was the detail from screenshots so i looked in to bve a bit more and found it was free witch suprised me to say the least, i used to use trainz and i found that quite dissapointing because the graphics were rubish and the trains were very basic with no saftey systems or any of the BVE4 features so to me that prooves that stuff that you pay for isnt always as good as free stuff

Regards,

Adam

 

[wishbone332]

Whoa! Making BVE "pay-to-play" is obviously not a good idea, says this observer! For one thing, MSTS (*rinses mouth out with soap*) is rather expensive where I am, and it seems that I'd be paying a lot of money for something that will never show routes perhaps as realistic as BVE, in my opinion. Second, if I may be so bold, I believe it would be against Mackoy's original wishes to provide a high-quality, free trainsim that could beat the pricey competition: and that's just what BVE is doing!! I enjoy BVE as much as everybody else on here, and to be honest, "privatising" BVE will only make it lose much of its fan following.

Keep BVE free, free the BVE within you, etc.

 

[class 313]

Whoa! Making BVE "pay-to-play" is obviously not a good idea, says this observer! For one thing, MSTS (*rinses mouth out with soap*) is rather expensive where I am, and it seems that I'd be paying a lot of money for something that will never show routes perhaps as realistic as BVE, in my opinion. Second, if I may be so bold, I believe it would be against Mackoy's original wishes to provide a high-quality, free trainsim that could beat the pricey competition: and that's just what BVE is doing!! I enjoy BVE as much as everybody else on here, and to be honest, "privatising" BVE will only make it lose much of its fan following.

Keep BVE free, free the BVE within you, etc.

MSTS is £5/10 here. So that's $2.50 dollars or $5 (approx). Without shipping on that of course.

 

[wishbone332]

Really?! Here, it's almost fifty dollars to buy -- not to mention the fact that it's quite hard to find here...

 

[class 313]

Really?! Here, it's almost fifty dollars to buy -- not to mention the fact that it's quite hard to find here...

Try importing it from the UK via Ebay or Amazon or something. Although MSTS is outdated it is still pretty good (with some help of the MSTS bin and routes such as Great Eastern)

 

[wishbone332]

Try importing it from the UK via Ebay or Amazon or something. Although MSTS is outdated it is still pretty good (with some help of the MSTS bin and routes such as Great Eastern)

Oooohhh...but wouldn't using "The Trainsim Who Must not be Named" be cheating on BVE? Somehow...?