MOT Test for Trains?

[RogerB]

A thought occurred to me whilst idly blasting a set of wheels. Do trains have regular inspections akin to a road vehicle MOT test?

If so are they done by an independent body?

 

[A-driver]

A thought occurred to me whilst idly blasting a set of wheels. Do trains have regular inspections akin to a road vehicle MOT test?



If so are they done by an independent body?

They do go in for services fairly frequently-not sure the limit but it's down to mileage. It is done generally 'in house' by the TOCs themselves but they obviously do have to meet certain standards set out by 'independent bodies'.

 

[edwin_m]

The rules require testing of various safety-related systems, the most obvious example being the magnet on the track used to test the AWS on trains leaving the depot. But generally it's down to the TOC, or whoever they pay to maintain the trains, working out a schedule of examinations, replacements etc which is sufficient to ensure safety and reliability at a reasonable cost.

 

[badassunicorn]

They get prepared for service at least once a day by the driver/shunter whereby all the safety equipment is checked and tested, and as said already, every so and so many miles they have an exam where brake pads etc are changed.

 

[theblackwatch]

All train operators have to have a Maintenance & Overhaul Policy and maintenance plan for rolling stock which complies with railway group standards.

 

[scotraildriver]

Standards are actually pretty high when it comes to maintenance, and as stated drivers carry out a multitude of checks before a train enters service. If its not right it doesn't go. Unfortunately sometimes fitters use duck tape and the like to secure minor things like a loose panel or something which gives an impression of poor maintenance, especially in customer areas. Makes me cringe! Mechanically trains tend to be very very good but they are let down on cosmetic items often.

 

[A-driver]

Standards are actually pretty high when it comes to maintenance, and as stated drivers carry out a multitude of checks before a train enters service. If its not right it doesn't go. Unfortunately sometimes fitters use duck tape and the like to secure minor things like a loose panel or something which gives an impression of poor maintenance, especially in customer areas. Makes me cringe! Mechanically trains tend to be very very good but they are let down on cosmetic items often.

Duck tape? It's posh in Scotland! 313 cabs are held together with layers of masking tape from over the years. Being that masking tape isn't draft proof it means that it can be like sitting in a wind tunnel, especially when you got tunnels at 75mph.

 

[Chrisgr31]

The Southern Class 171s have just undergone a major mechanical overhaul, and Southern took advantage of that to refresh the interiors. They have been in service 10 years and are fairly intensively used. Not sure it helps answer the question though!

 

[scotraildriver]

Duck tape? It's posh in Scotland! 313 cabs are held together with layers of masking tape from over the years. Being that masking tape isn't draft proof it means that it can be like sitting in a wind tunnel, especially when you got tunnels at 75mph.

Our 314's used to be like that but thankfully when they were refurbished they got new desks and draught proof doors! Sounds like you need the same!

 

[broadgage]

And of course the proof of the pudding is in the eating ! How many railway accidents have been caused by poorly maintained rolling stock ? There must have been the odd one, but I dont recal any recent accidents caused by poorly maintained rolling stock.

Poorly maintained road vehicles seem to be a frequent cause of accidents, despite the MOT.

 

[edwin_m]

There was the passenger derailment on the Midland Main Line due to a siezed wheel bearing, and quite a few freight train derailments due in part to excessive twist on wagon underframes.

 

[Silv1983]

I know at Northern the rolling stock has 'A exams' and 'B Exams' - with A obviously the very thorough exam where everything is checked. The 'B' exam is more frequent but less thorough.

Edit - Sorry wrong way around. doh.

 

[RogerB]

Interesting stuff - thanks.

I realised there would be plenty of preventative maintenance and routine checks but I'm a bit surprised there's no independent checks, if only on a random visit basis.

 

[A-driver]

There was the passenger derailment on the Midland Main Line due to a siezed wheel bearing, and quite a few freight train derailments due in part to excessive twist on wagon underframes.

So that means that rolli stock isn't maintained? A handful of faulty veichles compared to the hundreds of thousands which run around incident free every year compare that to cars, even with mots.

 

[edwin_m]

So that means that rolli stock isn't maintained? A handful of faulty veichles compared to the hundreds of thousands which run around incident free every year compare that to cars, even with mots.

Not at all. I posted further back about the amount of maintenance going on, I agree the number of incidents is very low and I never said otherwise. However broadgage asked if there had been any accidents due to poor rolling stock maintenance and I have supplied a factual response.

Or would you be happier if I restored the balance by pointing out that accidents are also occasionally caused by poor infrastructre maintenance, the behaviour of passengers and road users, and even - dare I suggest - by drivers making mistakes?

 

[driver9000]

I know at Northern the rolling stock has 'A exams' and 'B Exams' - with A obviously the very thorough exam where everything is checked. The 'B' exam is more frequent but less thorough.

The B exam is the deeper exam.

 

[No Fault Found]

Not at all. I posted further back about the amount of maintenance going on, I agree the number of incidents is very low and I never said otherwise. However broadgage asked if there had been any accidents due to poor rolling stock maintenance and I have supplied a factual response.

Or would you be happier if I restored the balance by pointing out that accidents are also occasionally caused by poor infrastructre maintenance, the behaviour of passengers and road users, and even - dare I suggest - by drivers making mistakes?

Which Midland Mainline derailmant were you referring to? Was it the one with the snapped axle due to incorrect sized final drive bearing?

Not really classed as maintenance, more Level 5 overhaul issues from the supplier.

 

[TEW]

And of course the proof of the pudding is in the eating ! How many railway accidents have been caused by poorly maintained rolling stock ? There must have been the odd one, but I dont recal any recent accidents caused by poorly maintained rolling stock.

Poorly maintained road vehicles seem to be a frequent cause of accidents, despite the MOT.

Not an accident, but the only incident which comes to mind is the station overrun at Stonegate in 2010 which was caused by the 375 unit having run out of sand, and the poor processes South Eastern had in place to ensure trains were not running without sand.
http://www.raib.gov.uk/cms_resources.cfm?file=/111117_R182011_Stonegate.pdf

 

[edwin_m]

Which Midland Mainline derailmant were you referring to? Was it the one with the snapped axle due to incorrect sized final drive bearing?

Not really classed as maintenance, more Level 5 overhaul issues from the supplier.

Yes it was that one, but it also illustrates that not only the TOC is responsible for the safety of the train, it goes all the way back up the supply chain.

I was also reading the Southall report which documents the sorry chain of events that led to the AWS failure going unfixed despite two drivers reporting it.

 

[TOCDriver]

'A's are above Solebar and B's below and above. I tend to have a thing about fuel caps because I have come across quite a few that have been left off when doing the morning check. It's a pet hate so I always like to look below the bar.

 

[O L Leigh]

There was the passenger derailment on the Midland Main Line due to a siezed wheel bearing, and quite a few freight train derailments due in part to excessive twist on wagon underframes.

Most freight derailments are the result of poor track maintenance or a rough ride rather than anything to do with maintenance. Freight wagons don't ride the rails as smoothly as passenger vehicles. Can you link me to something...?

O L Leigh

 

[A-driver]

I was also reading the Southall report which documents the sorry chain of events that led to the AWS failure going unfixed despite two drivers reporting it.

But it met railway group standards for the time and so MOT type exams would make no difference. A train would not be allowed in service today without a working AWS and if it broke in service them severe restrictions to speed and crewing are imposed and most TOCs would pull the train from service as soon as practicle.

 

[WestCountry]

Most freight derailments are the result of poor track maintenance or a rough ride rather than anything to do with maintenance. Freight wagons don't ride the rails as smoothly as passenger vehicles. Can you link me to something...?

The RAIB had some stuff about that in the Ely derailment report where frame twist was a major factor.
(I'm not the person you were responding to)

 

[O L Leigh]

Thanks. That's one, but it's still some way from explaining the causes of "quite a few freight train derailments".

O L Leigh

 

[edwin_m]

Thanks. That's one, but it's still some way from explaining the causes of "quite a few freight train derailments".

O L Leigh

Go to the link below, open "Wagons" then look under "Vehicle/track interaction" and "Wheel/Axle Bogies and Suspension".

http://raib.gov.uk/publications/imm...e/immediate_cause___investigation_reports.cfm

 

[TDK]

I know at Northern the rolling stock has 'A exams' and 'B Exams' - with A obviously the very thorough exam where everything is checked. The 'B' exam is more frequent but less thorough.

There are many exams.

"S" exam is a thorough prep
"FPX" is a fuel point exam whenever the train goes for fuel
the you get A, B, C & D with A the most frequent and the lesser exam.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

'A's are above Solebar and B's below and above. I tend to have a thing about fuel caps because I have come across quite a few that have been left off when doing the morning check. It's a pet hate so I always like to look below the bar.

A exams are a bit more than just above solebar. The exams are based on mileage with "A" the more frequent and less intensive. I do not know much about the content of the exams but I know that all the brakes and connectors are included in an "A" exam.

 

[David Barrett]

I was also reading the Southall report which documents the sorry chain of events that led to the AWS failure going unfixed despite two drivers reporting it.

But was that not ultimately a management failure flying in the face of established standing orders?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

A exams are a bit more than just above solebar. The exams are based on mileage with "A" the more frequent and less intensive. I do not know much about the content of the exams but I know that all the brakes and connectors are included in an "A" exam.

The A Exam was/is the basic safety on line examination with fluid level checks, functional testing of brakes, sanding equipment and engine running checks for leakage and other defects, plus the all important general exam which was worded (in my time anyway) as "A general examination of the outside and underneath for loose damaged and detached parts" although in later years the words "And underneath" were removed by at least one company so that they could get away without the use of a pit. In any case probably about as thorough as the visual and functional components of an M.O.T.

 

[O L Leigh]

Go to the link below, open "Wagons" then look under "Vehicle/track interaction" and "Wheel/Axle Bogies and Suspension".

http://raib.gov.uk/publications/imm...e/immediate_cause___investigation_reports.cfm

That's not a great body of supporting evidence.

Yes there are one or two instances where frame twist has been a contributory or even causal factor in freight train derailments. However, even where this has been found to be a factor, it is found also that there have been issues with track geometry and it is the combination of these factors that results in the wagon jumping the track. Frame twist on it's own does not cause derailments. The majority of incidents linked to were the result of instability caused by incorrect or uneven loading of the wagon combined with problems with track geometry.

The fact that track geometry plays a part in virtually all of these derailments, whether the wagon was unstable due to being incorrectly loaded or suffered from frame twist, is the reason why I stress that vehicle maintenance has less to do with freight train derailments than track maintenance. About the only exception is the derailment at York station which was due to the sudden collapse of the suspension because of the failure of a component.

O L Leigh

 

[edwin_m]

Most rail accidents are the results of several factors and if any of those factors hadn't been present the accident would not have happened. The fact these accidents required both the track and the vehicle to be out of spec means that you can't really say that one defect caused the accident more than the other.

For example a defective AWS doesn't in itself cause an accident, since some kind of driver error must also happen, but few people would disagree these days that sending a train out with no working AWS is a failure of maintenance.

 

[O L Leigh]

But it is equally true to say that there is a common factor that runs through all of these incidents; track geometry. It is the same in all but one of the incident reports I read. Track geometry and vehicle defect. Track geometry and incorrect or uneven load.

Yes it's a combination of factors that create an incident, but you have to seek out and discover the common thread.

O L Leigh