Most overcrowded stations revealed

[Xenophon PCDGS]

No it wasn't, it's been locked due to it being inactive for over two and a bit months, same as all the other threads that haven't been commented on since 18th June...

On this, I stand corrected in my terminology. I should have said that there were 15 postings on this thread, all of which were dated 5th June 2011, yours being the 15th and final posting.

 

[IanXC]

I've used TPE print at home tickets before, don't recall using a barrier with one though. Seemed to work well. I think there's a significant group who will get to the end of online ticket booking and select print at home. Another relevant group is people travelling on company business, print at the office if you will!

How has Chilterns text ticket trial worked out?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Is it true that Stagecoach Manchester offer this type of facility for their some of their Megarider tickets, which offer a discount on their normal pricing structure to these tickets.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

On this, I stand corrected in my terminology. I should have said that there were 15 postings on this thread, all of which were dated 5th June 2011, yours being the 15th and final posting.

It has 49 posts to 10th June...

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

It has 49 posts to 10th June...

Some days it is possible to have bad days, other days (notably Fridays) are extremely bad days, best forgotten, as I appear to be having today. Old age really hits hard sometimes. :roll:

 

[northwichcat]

Secondly, since many main stations are now like shopping malls, there must be some people using these stations that are not travelling at all.

I'm not sure about that a WH Smith in a train or bus station (or at Motorway services) charge higher prices than those on the High Street. It's the same with other shops like Boots and Sainsburys.

If the station shops are open by 6am or still open at around 10pm I can see non-travelling people using them but at midday I can't see office workers buying sandwiches from the station shops, unless the station is a long distance from the main shopping area.

At some stations I accept they have shops that aren't just targeted at travellers who are willing to pay more because they don't know or don't have time to go somewhere else, St Pancras is a good example of this. However, St Pancras is not a typical station/interchange.

Fourthly, with the growth of Advance tickets people are more likely to turn up at the station with plenty of time to spare regardless of whether they have printed their ticket at home or not. most people, at least those who are aware of the T&C's, will make every effort to allow for delays in parking the car, or the bus breaking down, and will arrive at the station half an hour or so early.

In a way that's why Doncaster is the ideal station. The station adjoins the bus station plus the Frenchgate shopping centre and the shopping centre is not within the station. If you arrive 45 minutes early you can spend 30 minutes looking around the shopping centre and know the trains are just the other side of some stairs.

Fifthly, people carry a lot more with them these days. They and their belongings therefore take up more space than previously.

I'm not sure about that. Passengers get told their luggage will be removed or destroyed if they leave it unattended, so people are less likely to do that than 20 years ago so it appears people have more because all their stuff is with them at all times. Also modern trains have less luggage space than older ones, so the same amount of luggage appears to take up more space.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I've used TPE print at home tickets before, don't recall using a barrier with one though.

TPE managed stations don't have automated barriers. That doesn't mean they don't stop at stations where Northern have installed barriers as they do. However, it does mean using TPE on average you're less likely to come across automated barriers and more likely to come across manual ticket checks.

 

[SS4]

Print at home is not a bad option but if introduced it should definitely be a discount instead of a crafty way to push every other source up (aren't XC doing the latter?)

Station overcrowding doesn't surprise me but the country doesn't have the money/will* for long term solutions. Another problem is that the most used stations are in city centres meaning there is often heavy development around them so one can only really build up or down which causes more congestion problems

* Delete according to your economic/political preference

 

[Minstral25]

I didn't realise the G4S revenue staff at Preston would need upgrading to be able to accept 'Print at Home'

Be good fun to try!!

However London's Victoria, Fenchurch Street, Charing Cross, Clapham Junction, and Wimbledon are all gate lined!

 

[tbtc]

Interesting that nine of the eleven are "down south" - you can bet that if more than just two of them were north of Watford that we'd hear a lot more complaints on here...

As for "print at home", thats all well and good, but I'd imagine that a significant number of passengers either have season tickets (or concessionary passes/ rovers/ staff passes/ other railcards etc) or have purchased tickets in advance (and posted out to them)...

...this means that "print at home" would only be an option for a minority of passengers. Then there are a lot of people who have no computer (or even those like me who have a computer but no printer - including those who use mobiles etc to buy tickets)...

PS: As for having multiple threads about the same topics, I think we've had more threads about Pacer withdrawal than there are Pacers to withdraw!

 

[ajdunlop]

The answer is NFC not print at home. I think print at home is a nice novelty for XC but will become completely impractical at barriers when many people use it. With NFC you buy your tickets or season ticket online and then go to a ticket machine or other reader and this is loaded on and can work with barriers. Allows for novel types of ticketing as well like pay as you go for urban areas and local services and things like carnets to fit in with flexible working.
SWT have kitted out all their barriers, ticket machines and non barriered stations with card readers and are running a trial for some season ticket holders on the mainline. Haven't heard anything yet about it coming our of beta. This should be a early requirement of all the new franchises, it had revolutionised the way ticketing works in London with Oyster about time for the rest of the country.

 

[WatcherZero]

I quote from Bluedanger in a thread on the Traction forum:

Thanks to you all for the info. Yes - a very scenic journey to Manchester.

In the end, I traveled on an EMT 158 to Manchester and came back on a Northern 142.

I thought the 158 was a very good example of the class, with plenty of room and was well maintained - although I guess it may have had a recent refurbishment.

As for the Pacer...It was probably the worst train I've been on in this country! I couldn't believe the cramped layout - especially the three abreast "airline" seats. Luckily, the train I was on wasn't too busy.

Saw a good variety of units at Sheffield and Piccadilly - quite different from my usual fare in 3rd rail country!

As to the crowding, NR say it wasnt a comprehensive survey just guessing which stations were fullish in a list generated by the Tocs, the Tocs then had to fill in a detailed questionaire estimating the Fruin (density of people) levels at various locations, NR marked the questionaires and then investigated the highest scoring ones.. Most of the RUS is just putting together common station improvement methodlogy for various sized stations used as examples.

This is a list of stations the Tocs nominated to NR as congested.

l Ascot
l Ashburys
l Balham
l Banbury
l Barking
l Basingstoke
l Billericay
l Birmingham International
l Birmingham Moor Street
l Birmingham New Street
l Birmingham Snow Hill
l Bradford Forster Square
l Bradford Interchange
l Brentwood
l Brighton
l Bristol Parkway
l Bristol Temple Meads
l Bromley South
l Cambridge
l Cardiff Central
l Cardiff Queen Street
l Chafford Hundred
l Chelmsford
l Chesterfield
l Clapham Junction
l Colchester North
l Coventry
l Derby
l Dore
l Ealing Broadway
l Earlsfield
l East Croydon
l Farnborough Main
l Farringdon
l Finsbury Park
l Forest Gate
l Gatwick Airport
l Gidea Park
l Glasgow Central (Low Level)
l Glasgow Queen Street (High Level)
l Guildford
l Guiseley
l Halifax
l Haymarket
l Herne Hill
l Horsforth
l Huddersfield
l Kings Norton
l Kirk Sandall
l Leeds
l Leicester
l Lewisham
l Lichfield City
l Lincoln Central
l Liverpool Central
l Liverpool James Street
l Liverpool Lime Street
l London Blackfriars
l London Bridge
l London Cannon Street
l London Charing Cross
l London Euston
l London Fenchurch Street
l London Kings Cross
l London Liverpool Street
l London Marylebone
l London Paddington
l London St Pancras (Upper Levels Midland Main Line platforms)
l London Victoria
l London Waterloo
l London Waterloo East
l Manchester Deansgate
l Manchester Oxford Road
l Manchester Piccadilly (Platforms 13/14)
l Manchester Victoria
l Milton Keynes Central
l Nuneaton
l Orpington
l Peterborough
l Preston
l Princes Risborough
l Putney
l Reading
l Redhill
l Richmond
l St Albans City
l Salford Central
l Salford Crescent
l Saltaire
l Seven Sisters
l Sheffield
l Shipley
l Slough
l Solihull
l South Gyle
l Staines
l Stourbridge Junction
l Stratford
l Stratford upon Avon
l Surbiton
l Tamworth
l Telford Central
l Tottenham Hale
l Twickenham
l Vauxhall
l Wakefield Westgate
l Walsall
l Walthamstow Central
l Watford Junction
l Wembley Stadium
l West Ham
l West Hampstead (Thameslink)
l Wimbledon
l Windsor & Eton Central
l Witham
l Woking
l Wolverhampton
l Worcester Foregate Street.

NR has also released the first £21m of the £100m commercial stations improvement fund, when it was first announced I was skeptical saying as any improvements had to generate a profit on the investment from extra revenue it would just be used for installing gating and increasing car park revenue. Well heres the first batch of winners.

C2C: Ticket gating at Southend East and Purfleet stations
Southeastern & Network Rail: Waterloo East balcony ticket gating
Southeastern & Network Rail: Rochester new ticket office and gating
Southeastern & Network Rail: Denmark Hill station ticket gating
Southeastern & Network Rail: Driver Only Operation Strood to Gillingham
Northern Rail: Improvements to six car parks at Congleton, Guide Bridge, Sandbach, Crossflats, Sowerby Bridge, and Todmorden
Network Rail: Kings Cross ticket gating
Network Rail: Manchester Victoria improvements, including ticket gating
Southern: Smartcard installation at 91 Southern franchised stations
Southern and Network Rail: Brighton station redevelopment
First Great Western: Pershore car park improvements
First Great Western: Charlbury car park improvements
First Great Western: Langley car park improvements
First Great Western: Radley car park improvements
First Great Western: Kemble car park improvements

 

[stanley T]

I think "print at home" would be wildly popular - until you are stuck behind someone fiddling around for ages trying to get the bar code to read at the ticket gate scanner, and then joining the long queue for the one member of staff who is checking... at the peak of the rush hour, of course. It's all right for planes, because they don't handle the volumes of trains, and because the sheeple passengers have been conditioned to wait for ages to board.

Charing Cross has to be the worst, because of the sheer volume that passes through that tiny concourse (with shops in the middle ). Any delay at peak hours, all too frequent on South Eastern, and the crush can be positively scary.

For northerners feeling left out, surely the tiny through platforms at Manchester Piccadilly?

 

[Lampshade]

For northerners feeling left out, surely the tiny through platforms at Manchester Piccadilly?

They're awful, especially if you're early for a Southport service and get caught in the crush for the Barrow/Scotland hock:

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

This is a list of stations the Tocs nominated to NR as congested.

Ashburys

Ashburys....in the words of Victor Meldrew..I just don't believe it!!

Was it Gorton wakes week or the Abbey Hey Pub Festival when their staff surveyed Ashburys station.:roll:

 

[bluenoxid]

Kirk Sandall is another one that I am struggling to visualise as crowded.

 

[northwichcat]

They're awful, especially if you're early for a Southport service and get caught in the crush for the Barrow/Scotland hock:

It's also bad with the Norwich-Liverpool followed a few minutes later by Man Airport-Blackpool with usually hundreds boarding/alighting both trains. Norwich-Liverpool is quite often a few minutes behind and the display screens keep switching between Liverpool Lime Street and Blackpool North so even considerate passengers don't know if they should stand back or not.

I imagine Piccadilly wasn't included because the Manchester Hub proposals have already got plans for some services diverted to Victoria and more platforms at Piccadilly.

 

[tbtc]

As to the crowding, NR say it wasnt a comprehensive survey just guessing which stations were fullish in a list generated by the Tocs, the Tocs then had to fill in a detailed questionaire estimating the Fruin (density of people) levels at various locations, NR marked the questionaires and then investigated the highest scoring ones.. Most of the RUS is just putting together common station improvement methodlogy for various sized stations used as examples.

This is a list of stations the Tocs nominated to NR as congested.

...South Gyle...

Whilst I don't mean to criticise the list, compiled for the right reasons, there is the issue of some stations being "busy" at rush hour, but not for 90% of the day.

Take South Gyle. Busy in the morning when the six coach 170s arrive from Fife, with people working in the nearby office parks (and a shuttle bus to take staff to the RBS headquaters at Gogarburn)...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/thebustocrookes/5172621502/

...and just as busy at tea time...

...but pretty quiet the rest of the time. How does that compare to a station which is generally busy throughout the day (but never "uncomfortably" so)?

I'm not sure what the priorities are. Locally, Meadowhall station can be a nightmare after 16.00 on a Sunday (when the shops start to close) and for much of the pre-Christmas/ January Sales period. But not as congested the rest of the time (still busy, but not as bad as the "top eleven" on this thread).

Of course, everyone wants the money spent on their region and their line - its hard to "prove" what the stations most in need are...

 

[starrymarkb]

Not really sure how Print at Home would benefit many of these stations. They all have ticket gatelines and currently there isn't a technology that allows A4 paper to be used in the ticket gatelines (which Home printing would mostly produce), plus many of the tickets in London would require tube access through ticket gates as well. I can just imagine the hordes of people trying to get through the one manned gate with badly printed A4 sheets.

Yes there is - Eurostar gates can read A4 print at home tickets. You press the barcode up against the reader. Might not be as quick as magnetic tickets, but you can have a well signed print at home lane.

http://www.eurostar.com/UK/uk/leisure/travel_information/at_the_station/scan_ticket.jsp

 

[WatcherZero]

Whilst I don't mean to criticise the list, compiled for the right reasons, there is the issue of some stations being "busy" at rush hour, but not for 90% of the day.

Take South Gyle. Busy in the morning when the six coach 170s arrive from Fife, with people working in the nearby office parks (and a shuttle bus to take staff to the RBS headquaters at Gogarburn)...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/thebustocrookes/5172621502/

...and just as busy at tea time...

...but pretty quiet the rest of the time. How does that compare to a station which is generally busy throughout the day (but never "uncomfortably" so)?

I'm not sure what the priorities are. Locally, Meadowhall station can be a nightmare after 16.00 on a Sunday (when the shops start to close) and for much of the pre-Christmas/ January Sales period. But not as congested the rest of the time (still busy, but not as bad as the "top eleven" on this thread).

Of course, everyone wants the money spent on their region and their line - its hard to "prove" what the stations most in need are...

They break it down in the RUS with some diagram examples of Fruin levels and the desired and maximum permitted levels in stations. A busy platform for example where everyones waiting for the same train isnt a problem, a station entrance or staircase on the other hand where theres a chokepoint and fewer people but moving in opposing directions and blocking flow is a problem.

 

[island]

I didn't realise the G4S revenue staff at Preston would need upgrading to be able to accept 'Print at Home'

They probably do

 

[WatcherZero]

Wallgate G4S have become Northern staff recently I noticed.

 

[Lampshade]

They probably do

To be fair, they need upgrading to recognise a ticket from their own backside

 

[ess]

I think Crossrail is planning to extend Oyster across the whole route. If it was possible to add a day return ticket to an oyster card from home that would be much better than print from home. It could be done via telesales too for anyone who can't manage a printer (your gran, someone blind etc)

 

[Aictos]

East Coast have been putting off the work at Peterborough since March this year, the sooner they start the better but I wager it won't be done before the Olympics.

I'm surprised Stevenage wasn't mentioned - it's about time the lifts to and from the platforms were renewed.

 

[northwichcat]

I'm surprised Stevenage wasn't mentioned - it's about time the lifts to and from the platforms were renewed.

The ones mentioned are the highest priority ones with the worse overcrowding problems not all stations with overcrowding issues.

Network Rail have also done a medium priority list:
Balham
Birmingham Moor Street
Bradford Forster Square
Bradford Interchange
Cardiff Central
Cardiff Queen Street
Coventry
Glasgow Central (Low Level)
Guiseley
Halifax
Huddersfield
Lichfield City
Lincoln Central
Liverpool James Street
London Marylebone
Nuneaton
Princes Risborough
Salford Central
Shipley
Solihull
Tamworth
Walsall
Woking