Most overcrowded stations revealed

[northwichcat]

Eleven key train stations, including several in London, have been listed as needing action to ease overcrowding.

The Network Rail (NR) list includes the London stations of Victoria, Fenchurch Street and Charing Cross as well as Liverpool's Lime Street.

The 11-strong list also includes Basingstoke in Hampshire, Bristol Parkway, Clapham Junction in south London, Preston, Surbiton in south-west London, Watford Junction in Hertfordshire and Wimbledon in south-west London.
In a report, NR said action should be taken to identify the measures needed to relieve passenger congestion at the 11 stations by 2019.

NR also listed 12 stations with long-term plans which would deal with congestion but which might not be fully committed or developed.
The report suggested various measures to ease congestion, ranging from "soft" options, such as encouraging more print-at-home ticketing or relocating information points, to more expensive options involving provision of additional space.

NR said on-train counting systems already existed but with varying degrees of sophistication. It added that the rail industry did not routinely or systematically count the number of non-travellers at stations.
But NR added: "There is not a direct correlation between the number of station users and the level of congestion observed. So merely analysing which stations have the greatest numbers of users will not of itself highlight where crowding is a particular difficulty."

A spokesman for the Association of Train Operating Companies said: "Train companies recognise that passengers do not want to travel through very busy stations, and are working with NR, which owns the train stations in Britain, to reduce congestion as much as possible.

"As NR's report identifies, millions are to be invested at key stations to fund improvements including bigger concourses and longer platforms. In addition, train companies continue to work hard to relieve congestion at the stations they manage, according to passenger needs and local circumstances."

http://www.google.com/hostednews/uk...qaleVf27KtubEA?docId=A34769661314884871A00001

 

[OxtedL]

This would be the final version of the Network RUS: Stations document. Good to see that essentially nothing has changed from the draft.

 

[northwichcat]

The problem is the lack of real solutions. Real solutions being station expansions, larger ticket offices, more TVMs etc.

 

[142094]

2019 = 8 years away. With the rate of increase in use of the railways over the past few years I bet that whatever they think of will be useless by 2019. Soft options such as printing tickets at home are just about useless when you think that most overcrowding happens during the peak hours, where people are likely to have season tickets.

 

[HST Power]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but did I not already do a thread on this matter, unless this is a new report?

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=46733

 

[northwichcat]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but did I not already do a thread on this matter, unless this is a new report?

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=46733

Draft document up for consultation for May 2011
Final document issued 31st August 2011.

 

[Greenback]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but did I not already do a thread on this matter, unless this is a new report?

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=46733

If there was ever only one thread per subject, it would be a far quieter forum!

 

[northwichcat]

Soft options such as printing tickets at home are just about useless when you think that most overcrowding happens during the peak hours, where people are likely to have season tickets.

I think the only solution to utilise 'print at home' effectively is for all tickets to get a minimum of £1 discount over the at the station price (why would a passenger pay to print a £15 ticket themselves when it's £15 to get the person at the station to do it for you?)

Any ticket available at the station will be available to print at home. The passenger can choose what they print the ticket on e.g. they can print a season ticket on card and laminate it if they wish to do so.

All 'print at home' tickets will have the name of the intended passenger printed on them and ticket inspectors can ask for suitable ID during ticket inspections.

 

[Greenback]

All 'print at home' tickets will have the name of the intended passenger printed on them and ticket inspectors can ask for suitable ID during ticket inspections.

A £1 discount would not be enough to persuade me to buy and run a printer to print at home, particularly if it also comes with the requirement to ensure that I carry ID with me at all times.

 

[northwichcat]

A £1 discount would not be enough to persuade me to buy and run a printer to print at home, particularly if it also comes with the requirement to ensure that I carry ID with me at all times.

I did say minimum of £1 discount. It'd be a £1 discount on a £5 ticket but on more expensive tickets such as season tickets it should be much more than £1.

The ID requirement could be waived if a seat reservation was booked and used but otherwise it would be left open to abuse.

 

[Greenback]

Sorry, I'm just not convinced that print at home is very useful to the majority of rail users.

 

[jrhilton]

What is the exact definition of over overcrowding in this case; it is number of passengers trying to getting on/off at rush hour, or number of passengers trying to buy tickets, or some combination of lots of other things too?

 

[Scooby]

Sorry, I'm just not convinced that print at home is very useful to the majority of rail users.

Convinced or not, it would be a very useful option for a lot of passengers -- my station doesn't print out tickets and a print out at home option would be great.
Lets be honest, its what some of the airlines already require.

 

[Greenback]

Convinced or not, it would be a very useful option for a lot of passengers -- my station doesn't print out tickets and a print out at home option would be great.
Lets be honest, its what some of the airlines already require.

It may be of use to some passengers, but even then I don't see how it will decrease congestion at the stations - presumably people will still go there to catch trains?!

That's why I'm also more interested in what criteria have been used to determine overcrowding. If it's simply that the concourse isn't big enough, as seems to be implied, perhaps some of the clutter of shops and kiosks could be done away with?

The last time I was at Charing Cross it was the off peak, yet it still seemed very cluttered and cramped, and I remember thinking that it would be extremely crowded in the evening rush hour. In the morning, most arrivals will go straight through the station and out, whereas later people will arrive and look for their train, causing congestion in front of the displays.

 

[Cherry_Picker]

Print at home isnt the answer, but it is an answer, and one which is very easy to implement as it can just be lifted directly from the many other places which use it. It wont solve overcrowding on its own, but I don't understand why somebody might be against it.

 

[eastdyke]

Print at home?

No thanks, more delays at barriers ...

 

[Scooby]

It may be of use to some passengers, but even then I don't see how it will decrease congestion at the stations - presumably people will still go there to catch trains?!

It would decrease congestion in areas around ticketing areas and could possibly have a positive effect on people milling around on platforms, waiting for their train -- rather than allowing 30 minutes 'just to be on the safe side' for waiting in the ticketing queue (either manned or unmanned), you could slash it down to (say) 10 minutes, because you already have your ticket.

 

[Greenback]

I'm not against it, I am merely saying that I don't think it will be useful for myself and the majority of other users, nor do I see how it will ehlp to reduce crowding at stations, as most of the crowding is the people waiitng to catch the train anyway.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

It would decrease congestion in areas around ticketing areas and could possibly have a positive effect on people milling around on platforms, waiting for their train -- rather than allowing 30 minutes 'just to be on the safe side' for waiting in the ticketing queue (either manned or unmanned), you could slash it down to (say) 10 minutes, because you already have your ticket.

Yes, well, when I am at busy stations, the least congested areas seem to be around the ticket office and TVM's. Most congestion is on the platform and the screens on the concourse!

 

[142094]

Then again, the milling around time normally means a chance to go to food outlets and other shops which = revenue through rent for Network Rail.

 

[WatcherZero]

What is the exact definition of over overcrowding in this case; it is number of passengers trying to getting on/off at rush hour, or number of passengers trying to buy tickets, or some combination of lots of other things too?

Density of people in the concourse and accessways and to a lesser extent on the platforms themselves.

 

[londonbridge]

I'm not surprised to see Wimbledon there,I used to take the tramlink as part of my commute to work and getting off the platform and up the stairs was always a nightmare,more so if there was an FCC on platform nine at the same time.

 

[Lampshade]

The thing about platforms 1/2 at Preston is that unlike platforms 3-7, there are steps down to the subway as opposed to ramps, negating any accessibility benefit the subway would otherwise have - plus a lot of people are conscious of being branded a fare evader for having the audacity to use the subway. Also it doesn't help that the Man Vic/York/Blackpool S/Blackpool N/Liverpool/Man Airport services all use those platforms within the space of 20 minutes, coupled with the fact that G4S barrier the footbridge causing an unbearable crush; no small wonder it gets a bit busy.

 

[Minstral25]

Not really sure how Print at Home would benefit many of these stations. They all have ticket gatelines and currently there isn't a technology that allows A4 paper to be used in the ticket gatelines (which Home printing would mostly produce), plus many of the tickets in London would require tube access through ticket gates as well. I can just imagine the hordes of people trying to get through the one manned gate with badly printed A4 sheets.

However there is an answer which is ticket on departure - where you put your credit card in the machine at the station and out pops your ticket. Southern use this with their on-line booking

 

[northwichcat]

They all have ticket gatelines and currently there isn't a technology that allows A4 paper to be used in the ticket gatelines (which Home printing would mostly produce)

I didn't realise the G4S revenue staff at Preston would need upgrading to be able to accept 'Print at Home'

 

[WestCoast]

Print at Home would be great for me, because I can't buy advance tickets (no TOD or ticket office at local stations) unless there is enough time for the post.

It may be of use to some passengers, but even then I don't see how it will decrease congestion at the stations - presumably people will still go there to catch trains?!

Ticket office queues I'm presuming in this instance.

 

[bluenoxid]

There is the technology for gatelines in the form of barcodes and scanners. It is not the answer for this problem. NFC and apps are the way forward if they can be made secure enough.

 

[WestCoast]

The thing about platforms 1/2 at Preston is that unlike platforms 3-7, there are steps down to the subway as opposed to ramps, negating any accessibility benefit the subway would otherwise have - plus a lot of people are conscious of being branded a fare evader for having the audacity to use the subway. Also it doesn't help that the Man Vic/York/Blackpool S/Blackpool N/Liverpool/Man Airport services all use those platforms within the space of 20 minutes, coupled with the fact that G4S barrier the footbridge causing an unbearable crush; no small wonder it gets a bit busy.

Platforms 1 and 2 at Preston are rather unpleasant, easily the worst part of the station. Crowded and narrow, with large groups of people blocking the way.

As for G4S "checking" tickets on the bridge. They can't stop you using the subway, if you've got a valid ticket there is nothing to fear.

 

[Greenback]

The problem of overcrowding at stations is a pretty complex one in my view. Firstly, more people at travelling, therefore more people ar eusing the stations. Secondly, since many main stations are now like shopping malls, there must be some people using these stations that are not travelling at all.

Thirdly, there are less waiting areas and circulating areas now than there used to be, due to the proliferation of retail opportunities. The design of the circulating areas could also do with attention, given that people congregate in certain areas rather than others.

Fourthly, with the growth of Advance tickets people are more likely to turn up at the station with plenty of time to spare regardless of whether they have printed their ticket at home or not. most people, at least those who are aware of the T&C's, will make every effort to allow for delays in parking the car, or the bus breaking down, and will arrive at the station half an hour or so early.

Fifthly, people carry a lot more with them these days. They and their belongings therefore take up more space than previously.

Finally, the concentration of services on to a few platfroms, like at Preston, doesn't really help, but a lot of flexibility has been removed from track layouts by rationalisation.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but did I not already do a thread on this matter, unless this is a new report?

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=46733

You did start a new thread on 5th June 2011, but that thread was locked, also on 5th June 2011.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

You did start a new thread, but that thread was locked on 5th June 2011.

No it wasn't, it's been locked due to it being inactive for over two and a bit months, same as all the other threads that haven't been commented on since 18th June...