Most expensive fare for the shortest journey time

[sheff'd victoria]

I was shocked to find out that a 20 minute journey will cost £14.90 for a single and £17.40 for a return, this is what is been offered for a " Day " return from Doncaster to York.

What was shocking is this was cheaper than buying 2 advanced tickets

This got me thinking, does anyone know of any rif-off fares for short travelling times eg. under 30 minutes ?

 

[yorkie]

This is crazy. Most "normal" passengers want as quick a journey time as possible!

I accept some enthusiasts will want to be on a train for as long as possible, so will perceive value for money to be based on a longer journey time being considered better, but that's definitely not what most passengers want!

In fact, the faster the journey time, the higher a premium you can charge!

York - Doncaster is about the same distance as Strood - St Pancras. Tickets are not priced by journey time (which would be daft), or by mileage (which they are in some countries) but instead by market based pricing. The market can bear a higher fare if the service is faster and more frequent and the stock is to a high standard.

The York - Doncaster service is very fast, taking 20 minutes, though the timetabled time is typically around 23 minutes, it's faster than Stood to St Pancras on HS1, yet the HS1 fares are actually more expensive.

Despite being slower, Strood to St Pancras costs more, for the same distance, £37.60 for the Anytime Day Return (SDR) which is a mere £17.40 for York - Doncaster SDR. To return a different day requires an Off Peak Return (SVR), that's £27.70 for Strood - St Pancras compared to £21.30 for York - Doncaster.

So I think your post is completely flawed.

That said, entirely separate to the point you make, the York - Doncaster fares have risen massively since around 2001, when the fare was only £5 for an Off Peak Day Return (CDR). In 12 years the cost of such a journey has increased to around 3.5 times the cost! So, yes, it costs too much, but no it is not a particularly expensive journey, as there are plenty more rip-off fares.

But no, I don't accept that a faster service should result in a reduced price

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Pretty sure a one stop tube cash fare in London would top the table on this?

 

[Buttsy]

Pretty sure a one stop tube cash fare in London would top the table on this?

Leicester Square to Covent Garden for £4.30? You can walk between the entrances of the two quicker than by taking the tube...

 

[yorkie]

Pretty sure a one stop tube cash fare in London would top the table on this?

Agreed, if you include LU, the usual one that crops up is Leicester Square to Covent Garden or some other nonsense, it gets boring after a while, as no-one with any sense would ever actually do that journey by tube.

 

[neilm]

Heathrow and Gatwick express have to be up there as well as always.

 

[PaxVobiscum]

Most expensive fare for the shortest journey time

I was shocked to find out that a 20 minute journey will cost £14.90 for a single and £17.40 for a return, this is what is been offered for a " Day " return from Doncaster to York.

What was shocking is this was cheaper than buying 2 advanced tickets

This got me thinking, does anyone know of any rif-off fares for short travelling times eg. under 30 minutes ?
I was shocked to find out that a 20 minute journey will cost £14.90 for a single and £17.40 for a return, this is what is been offered for a " Day " return from Doncaster to York.

What was shocking is this was cheaper than buying 2 advanced tickets

This got me thinking, does anyone know of any rif-off fares for short travelling times eg. under 30 minutes ?

I too consider that the facts presented in the original post do not appear to justify the wording of the title.

It is not for me to decide what should shock the OP, but I would not be shocked by either the prices quoted or the availability or otherwise of cheaper Advanced Fares; however it is the use of the term "rip-off fares" (typo accepted) in the closing paragraph which I find unjustified.

By all means let us look for better examples of contenders for the implied challenge of the title.

Sorry, too many years of marking student essays. Do carry on.

 

[jbb]

Agreed, if you include LU, the usual one that crops up is Leicester Square to Covent Garden or some other nonsense, it gets boring after a while, as no-one with any sense would ever actually do that journey by tube.

I'm ashamed to admit that when I was new to London I did embankment to charring cross more than once before I actually looked how far it was. (This was on a travelcard though so the cost question didn't apply)

 

[MikeWh]

Agreed, if you include LU, the usual one that crops up is Leicester Square to Covent Garden or some other nonsense, it gets boring after a while, as no-one with any sense would ever actually do that journey by tube.

I think the top of the list must be Canary Wharf to Heron Quays on the DLR. Cash fare also £4.50 and the front of the train is almost in the next station as the back leaves the previous one. And the trains are shorter than tube ones.

 

[maniacmartin]

I think the top of the list must be Canary Wharf to Heron Quays on the DLR. Cash fare also £4.50 and the front of the train is almost in the next station as the back leaves the previous one. And the trains are shorter than tube ones.

Does that beat West India Quay to Canary Wharf? Either way, no-one would undertake such a journey for a genuine transport need.

 

[MikeWh]

Does that beat West India Quay to Canary Wharf? Either way, no-one would undertake such a journey for a genuine transport need.

I might have got confused as to which one is shorter, but they're both shorter than Leicester Square to Covent Garden.

 

[maniacmartin]

Looking again at "real" journeys, the lines going into Swindon are expensive. (From Didcot and from Bristol).

An Anytime Day Single DID - SWI is £20.90, with the return being £41.80. This is an 19 minute journey, and under 30 miles.

 

[ValleyLines142]

Cogan to Dinas Powys in South Wales is a three minute journey costing £2.50, yet Fishguard Harbour to Fishguard & Goodwick, also a three minute journey, is a mere 70p.

 

[30mog]

Elsewhere in the world, Germany for example. Such a journey would be discouraged by pricing as the only trains available Doncaster to York would be premium branded. But then they would see to it there was also a cheaper but slower option. Not sure ECML has capacity available for this? Without looking at rail atlas I'm not sure a route via Pontefract is possible to provide what the Germans would brand a local or regional option? And even if it were, would any TOC be willing? Meanwhile, those able to are exploiting the situation.

I am of the belief there is a good market for cheaper but slower. If not, why are National Express coaches still in business? A different mode to us but Joe Public wanting to do Sheffield to London, for example, sees cheaper but slower.

 

[soil]

Excluding one-stop London flat fares, I would go for Ebbsfleet Intl - Stratford Intl.

Before 10am, this will cost £30.50 day return.

This is 33 miles round trip, and 24 minutes timetabled journey time, so £76.25/hour.

The Heathrow Express is £34 Anytime Return, for a 32 minute round trip, 29 miles, or £63.75/hour.

Some others for comparison:

Coventry - Euston £138 Anytime Return, 118 minutes round-trip, £70.17/hour (but 188 miles, so cheaper per mile)

Warrington Bank Quay - Euston £289 Anytime Return, 216 minutes round-trip, £80.28/hour.

Peterborough - Kings Cross £99 Anytime Return, 102 minutes round trip, only £58.24/hour.

 

[yorkie]

Elsewhere in the world, Germany for example. Such a journey would be discouraged by pricing as the only trains available Doncaster to York would be premium branded. But then they would see to it there was also a cheaper but slower option. Not sure ECML has capacity available for this? ...

If pricing IC trains higher than locals, there could be an option to use Northern via Leeds (or, infrequently, via Selby).

Due to our fares structure, the opposite happens on some corridors (e.g. Stoke/Crewe to Manchester, Coventry-Birmingham-Wolves)

 

[jb]

I might have got confused as to which one is shorter, but they're both shorter than Leicester Square to Covent Garden.

I used to live there, and I'm almost certain it's West India to Canary Wharf that is shorter. Of course neither is especially long

 

[alex17595]

West India to canary wharf is shorter according to wikipedia.

 

[sheff1]

I am shocked that the OP thinks this fare is a rip off

Not the best bargain, certainly, but reasonable enough when you consider the alternatives. To drive from Doncaster to York would take, even in ideal conditions, the best part of an hour and parking in central York is extremely limited and expensive.

 

[Starmill]

Due to our fares structure, the opposite happens on some corridors (e.g. Stoke/Crewe to Manchester, Coventry-Birmingham-Wolves)

I was just going to pick this one up. Especially Stoke on Trent where Virgin offer some of the fastest services which are also the cheapest (unless XC actually do sell those £2.50 advances, which I've never been able to get).

But just looking at the walk-up fares, an Any Permitted CDR is £14.50, but a Virgin Only one is £10.40. You are of course paying less for the loss of flexibility, but I wonder, if they had the guts, just how cheap Northern could make this by offering a Northern only ticket? I bet Northern have spare capacity on these after 09:30. I'd also note that BX seems considerably more restrictive for the Any Permitted than B3 for the Virgin Only! Truly a part of the 'pay more, get less' phenomenon.

Alternative, slightly slower, routes where this really would be a good idea, like Manchester to Chester via Altrincham (but there's no Any Permitted CDR?), or Manchester to Leeds via Hebden Bridge (only saving £2.50) I suspect may already be too full of their own passengers to warrant bigger incentives?

 

[Sidious]

Doncaster to Selby is valid via York using routeing guide map DO.

There is an £8.40 anytime day return, but this has recently (about the time of the price rise between Doncaster and York) become route 'Direct' and negative easement 700157 specifically forbids the option of travelling via York on this ticket. It used to be a nice way of reducing the price of Doncaster - York by taking advantage of the lower fare and stopping short.

Unfortunately, as Basil Fawlty once said 'that avenue of pleasure has been closed off'...

 

[alex17595]

You could eek an extra £1.20 by using stations like Uttoxeter (or Blythe Bridge, Tutbury+Hatton) with a £13.30 CDR any permited.

 

[tamesidedepot]

I was just going to pick this one up. Especially Stoke on Trent where Virgin offer some of the fastest services which are also the cheapest (unless XC actually do sell those £2.50 advances, which I've never been able to get).

I actually managed to get an XC Advance from Stoke to Stockport on the 1920 for Thursday of last week for £2.50. I must have just been lucky as it was not booked a long time in advance and not really an unsociable hour

 

[CaptainHaddock]

The classic one has to be Greenfield to Marsden, where an 8 minute journey will cost you £5.60 single. A fare so notorious the matter has even been raised in parliament!

http://www.smart-rail.co.uk/?p=670

 

[Goatboy]

I've always found Tiverton Parkway to Taunton oddly expensive given the price of the fares from say Taunton to Bristol or Tiverton to Totnes. It's the one irritating barrier in the way of reasonable fares from the South West to the Midlands I find.

 

[starrymarkb]

How much is Hayes to Heathrow on Heathrow Connect these days? I remember it being about £6 for a 2 mile trip...

 

[Goatboy]

The classic one has to be Greenfield to Marsden, where an 8 minute journey will cost you £5.60 single. A fare so notorious the matter has even been raised in parliament!

http://www.smart-rail.co.uk/?p=670

This isn't much different to Malvern Link to Worcester Foregate Street.

£4.80 single - for just 7 miles.

 

[bb21]

How much is Hayes to Heathrow on Heathrow Connect these days? I remember it being about £6 for a 2 mile trip...

£5.60

 

[johntea]

I could save £1.25 or so on a Day Return to York from Leeds if I used my Zones 1-3 Metrocard and the Northern Rail service to mean I went via Micklefield.

Trouble is, it takes almost as long to get to Micklefield on Northern as it does to get to York itself on a Transpenine or the like so quite happy paying the extra for the time saving!

I think it is quite reasonable though considering the return is valid until 5am the following morning!

 

[kieron]

Excluding one-stop London flat fares, I would go for Ebbsfleet Intl - Stratford Intl.

Before 10am, this will cost £30.50 day return.

Not that anyone should ever pay that much for the ticket. It costs more than a day single in each direction, so all the return does is mess with people who have certain railcards.