Most expensive and cheapest heritage railway per mile ?

[Vespa]

Went to Severn Valley Railway, walk up ticket is £32 rail rover pass, on 1940s event it's £40.

If you pay in advance you may get it a little bit cheaoer then you get £2 booking fee so you may gain £4 savings on walk up tickets.


I thought it was a touch on the steep side.

£32 ÷16 miles is about £2 per mileat the cheaper walk up price.


Which railway do you consider to be good value per mile ?

 

[Jan Mayen]

I went to Pickering (North York Moors Railway) recently and wanted a single to Grosmont. They don't sell singles, so it had to be the £49.50 all day rover. Nice railway, shame about the ticketing.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

I went to Pickering (North York Moors Railway) recently and wanted a single to Grosmont. They don't sell singles, so it had to be the £49.50 all day rover. Nice railway, shame about the ticketing.

Think that could have been done slightly cheaper by first buying a £25.00 "two stations" return from Pickering to Goathland and then a £13.50 "one station" return from Goathland to Grosmont, but it's still rather expensive!

 

[Krokodil]

Think that could have been done slightly cheaper by first buying a £25.00 "two stations" return from Pickering to Goathland and then a £13.50 "one station" return from Goathland to Grosmont, but it's still rather expensive!

Has split-ticketing become such a long-established practice that it's now represented in preservation?

 

[Cowley]

I’ve always felt that looking at things ‘per mile’ doesn’t really equate to value as such?

It depends what you’re looking for, but if you’re looking for a day out there’s more to take into account than just miles per pound. What’s on offer at the various stations for example? Is it in an area where you can visit other interesting things easily from one or more of the stations? Or are there interesting views to be seen from the train?

Most of these lines aren’t aimed at enthusiasts these days as they only account for a low percentage of customers, and even though I’m an enthusiast myself, I’d probably enjoy 5 miles of an interesting route over 20 miles of trundle on the flat through boring scenery, even if it was only double the price.

 

[PlatformEdgeVT]

If you buy child tickets, the full Welsh Highland Railway return journey (approximately 50 miles) costs £4, working out to 12.5 miles per pound (if you are a child).

 

[duffield]

Went to Severn Valley Railway, walk up ticket is £32 rail rover pass, on 1940s event it's £40.

If you pay in advance you may get it a little bit cheaoer then you get £2 booking fee so you may gain £4 savings on walk up tickets.


I thought it was a touch on the steep side.

£32 ÷16 miles is about £2 per mileat the cheaper walk up price.


Which railway do you consider to be good value per mile ?

The GCR is £3 per mile approx (which I don't begrudge one bit!); but an 8 mile line is always likely to be more expensive per mile than a 16 mile line.

 

[Cowley]

If you buy child tickets, the full Welsh Highland Railway return journey (approximately 50 miles) costs £4, working out to 12.5 miles per pound (if you are a child).

That’s not going to apply to the vast majority of people that post on here though, and even though I’d love a trip on the line (and being the gallant selfless person I am ), if I was to take Mrs C on a full return trip I’d be looking at a fairly hefty amount of money as it would be me that would pay for it (yes I know she’s a lucky lady).

 

[Djgr]

I went to Pickering (North York Moors Railway) recently and wanted a single to Grosmont. They don't sell singles, so it had to be the £49.50 all day rover. Nice railway, shame about the ticketing.

Isn't that the annual pass? If so, you could bring the average price per mile travelled right down.

 

[paul1609]

I’ve always felt that looking at things ‘per mile’ doesn’t really equate to value as such?

It depends what you’re looking for, but if you’re looking for a day out there’s more to take into account than just miles per pound. What’s on offer at the various stations for example? Is it in an area where you can visit other interesting things easily from one or more of the stations? Or are there interesting views to be seen from the train?

Most of these lines aren’t aimed at enthusiasts these days as they only account for a low percentage of customers, and even though I’m an enthusiast myself, I’d probably enjoy 5 miles of an interesting route over 20 miles of trundle on the flat through boring scenery, even if it was only double the price.

If your an enthusiast that visits many heritage railways in a year outside of the galas and special events why not think about becoming a "Friend of the HRA" for £25 https://www.hra.uk.com/membership/friends-of-the-hra. This entitles you to buy a HRA privilege card for 2 people for £180 that gives you free or discounted travel on most of the heritage railways https://www.hra.uk.com/hra-privilege-2024/privilege-participating-railways. £180 sounds a lot of money up front but thats £90 per person and the 2nd person isnt specified In the context of a visit to the NYMR and say one of the Welsh Narrow Gauge railways it probably isnt a bad deal and youll have the added bonus of showing your support for the heritage railway industry so maybe you like the idea of volunteering at a heritage railway but dont have the time because of work or family commitments? Use of the privilege card will align you with the inner core of working enthusiasts.

Disclaimer: Paul1609 is the co-ordinator of HRA Privilige for the Kent & East Sussex Railway. He receives no personal benefits from promoting the scheme. All the HRA member railways receive benefits from the scheme in the terms of reduced membership fees for the Professional Body that represents the industry in association with Government the ORR and World wide heritage railway associations

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Isn't that the annual pass? If so, you could bring the average price per mile travelled right down.

Think it is. Not so good though if like @Jan Mayen you're making just that one Pickering->Grosmont single journey.

 

[paul1609]

Think it is. Not so good though if like @Jan Mayen you're making just that one Pickering->Grosmont single journey.

Youre right its not good but the reality is that the OP is probably taking up the seat of someone who is willing to apy the Pickering to Whitby return fare (see other threads for details of NYMR overcrowding).
You also have to consider that Northern would be paid around £22.00 subsidy by taxpayers to offer a public transport solution for the return Pickering to Whitby journey in a 20 year old DMU wheras the NYMR gets some scant tax concessions and some random grants from government quangos.

 

[Russel]

Isn't that the annual pass? If so, you could bring the average price per mile travelled right down.

It's still expensive, unless you're in the area on a regular basis, how many people actually benefit from it being an annual pass?

For me, and many others who may have a few days break in the area every couple of years, the price alone stops me visiting.

 

[ChrisC]

It's still expensive, unless you're in the area on a regular basis, how many people actually benefit from it being an annual pass?

For me, and many others who may have a few days break in the area every couple of years, the price alone stops me visiting.

I’m in Pickering for a few days at the end of this month. I don’t want to go into Whitby as it’s the beginning of the school holidays and will be crowded. I’d quite like to have a day on the NYMR just travelling between Pickering and Grosmont on the quieter trains which don’t run through to Whitby. I’m not paying £49.50 to do that and will use my car to explore the area instead. I would be quite willing to pay up to £30 for a Pickering to Grosmont Day Rover.

 

[paul1609]

I’m in Pickering for a few days at the end of this month. I don’t want to go into Whitby as it’s the beginning of the school holidays and will be crowded. I’d quite like to have a day on the NYMR just travelling between Pickering and Grosmont on the quieter trains which don’t run through to Whitby. I’m not paying £49.50 to do that and will use my car to explore the area instead. I would be quite willing to pay up to £30 for a Pickering to Grosmont Day Rover.

If you look at the NYMR Red timetable your first train from Pickering would be the 10.55 departure arriving Grosmount 12.10 On days when the more profitable lunchtime dining train runs your only return option would be the 16.40 to Pickering arriving 17.50. I suspec the number of passengers wanting to spend 4 1/2 hours in Grosmont is tiny and theres no other trains you can rover on if you arent going to take up space on the Whitby trains.

 

[30907]

£30-odd for the SVR (or the suggested NYMR fare) works out at £1 per single mile. I don't think that's excessive, especially for a Day Rover.

KWVR walk-up prices for a 10-mile round trip are £15, Day Rover (with added benefits) £22 on normal days, so 50% higher.

I suspec the number of passengers wanting to spend 4 1/2 hours in Grosmont is tiny and theres no other trains you can rover on if you arent going to take up space on the Whitby trains.

Whereas the 2-stations fare to Goathland takes "normal" punters to a touristy destination and is around £1/mile.

 

[paul1609]

£30-odd for the SVR (or the suggested NYMR fare) works out at £1 per single mile. I don't think that's excessive, especially for a Day Rover.

KWVR walk-up prices for a 10-mile round trip are £15, Day Rover (with added benefits) £22 on normal days, so 50% higher.

Whereas the 2-stations fare to Goathland takes "normal" punters to a touristy destination and is around £1/mile.

I think a lot of heritage railway pricing is based on demand. On the examples youve given how would the price of 1 nights accomodation in August of the same standard vary in Keighley, Kidderminster and Whitby?
i have a Pompey away game in Middlesborough in mid August for the first time in many years!. I though hmm be nice to go for the weekend stay in Whitby on the Saturday night and have a ride on the NYMR Sunday. Took one look at accomodation prices in the North York Moors (and even the North East) and promptly booked split advance tickets for a day return.

 

[Jan Mayen]

It's still expensive, unless you're in the area on a regular basis, how many people actually benefit from it being an annual pass?

For me, and many others who may have a few days break in the area every couple of years, the price alone stops me visiting.

I purchased it because I hadn't realised that didn't do singles. Essentially, I'd spent the night in York, train to Malton then taxi to Pickering. I'd intended to travel to Grosmont, then travel on the Esk Valley line, then home. The alternative was to say I won't bother and head back home from Pickering. Given I'd been meaning to travel on the NYMR since I saw Michael Palin do it on his BBC Great Railway Journeys of The World episode 40 odd years ago, I felt I may as well do it.
As it happened, I decided to miss a train to Middlesbrough at Grosmont and spend longer on the NYMR. It was an agreeable days travel and as its an annual pass, I'll do my best to visit again. But £49.50 was still a bit of a shock to the system!

 

[ChrisC]

If you look at the NYMR Red timetable your first train from Pickering would be the 10.55 departure arriving Grosmount 12.10 On days when the more profitable lunchtime dining train runs your only return option would be the 16.40 to Pickering arriving 17.50. I suspec the number of passengers wanting to spend 4 1/2 hours in Grosmont is tiny and theres no other trains you can rover on if you arent going to take up space on the Whitby trains.

I agree, but when I am there at the very end of this month it is the Yellow timetable, and there are days when the lunchtime dining train doesn’t run.

 

[Flying Phil]

Of course if you purchase a day rover ticket, and the timetable has several trains, then the cost per mile will be quite a lot less. I'm sure a dedicated "train basher" could get over 100 miles per day quite easily on several railways.

 

[paul1609]

I agree, but when I am there at the very end of this month it is the Yellow timetable, and there are days when the lunchtime dining train doesn’t run.

And 90% of the visitors who visit in those circumstances will be happy to pay the £49.50 annual pass with free kids which will help the Railways cover their costs. The days of public transport type fares on heritage Railways are gone I'm afraid the £30ish day return from Pickering to Grosmont doesn't cover the costs. That's why the NYMR auditors qualified their accounts forcing the NYMR to take this action. Other Railways will be forced to follow to some extent.

 

[Krokodil]

The Snowdon Mountain probably ranks as the most expensive. On diesel it works out as £8.93 per mile on most trains or £7.66 on the first one. On steam it'll set you back £11.70 per mile.

 

[paul1609]

The Snowdon Mountain probably ranks as the most expensive. On diesel it works out as £8.93 per mile on most trains or £7.66 on the first one. On steam it'll set you back £11.70 per mile.

A large part of the average heritage railways costs are fixed which is unrelated to mileage. The extra costs that increase with mileage vary from Railway to Railway depending on the number of structures and also the gradients and curvature. Id say on average something like 80% of the costs are incured the moment you decide to provide a train and then around 20% is marginal based on mileage. If you go on to the national network a huge additional fixed cost is incurred the moment you cross the boundary the marginal cost of mileage on the national network is probably much in line with the heritage line element.

 

[GardenRail]

I went to Pickering (North York Moors Railway) recently and wanted a single to Grosmont. They don't sell singles, so it had to be the £49.50 all day rover. Nice railway, shame about the ticketing.

No Singles.... Why can't it just operate like a real railway. I wouldn't have given them my money. That's a budget airline ticket to somewhere in Europe.... Imagine a family having to pay that.... Annual or not, it's not good value if you live in Penzance and are on holiday, or even from abroad for that matter.

 

[SeanG]

I must have done about 500 miles in my recently expired year on the NYMR. I got the pass when it was £40, but even for £49.50 that works out as 10p per mile. I however live about an hour away.
I've said it before about the NYMR, I think its great value. Even if you go once, £50 for a 50 mile round trip isn't that bad in the grand scheme of other heritage railways. Add in the fact that children are free, and that it is a full day out, rather than just a couple of hours, then the value speaks for itself.

The West Somerset Railway is 19 miles (so 38 round trip), and charges £35, so is roughly the same price/mile. I don't see many complaints about it.

 

[Titfield]

No Singles.... Why can't it just operate like a real railway. I wouldn't have given them my money. That's a budget airline ticket to somewhere in Europe.... Imagine a family having to pay that.... Annual or not, it's not good value if you live in Penzance and are on holiday, or even from abroad for that matter.

It is about the perceived elasticity of demand. A simple example to illustrate this: Better to sell 3 tickets @ £9 each than 5 @ £5 each.

I would also suggest that if you have travelled a long way, you are more likely to pay a higher fare because the chances of being there again is much lower than say an attraction closer to home.

 

[Djgr]

And 90% of the visitors who visit in those circumstances will be happy to pay the £49.50 annual pass with free kids which will help the Railways cover their costs. The days of public transport type fares on heritage Railways are gone I'm afraid the £30ish day return from Pickering to Grosmont doesn't cover the costs. That's why the NYMR auditors qualified their accounts forcing the NYMR to take this action. Other Railways will be forced to follow to some extent.

I do feel the NYMR deserves more than one visit. It certainly ranks as First Division heritage.

 

[Tetchytyke]

I wouldn't have given them my money. That's a budget airline ticket to somewhere in Europe.... Imagine a family having to pay that.... Annual or not, it's not good value if you live in Penzance and are on holiday, or even from abroad for that matter.

Children under the age of 16 go free. So assuming a 2+2 family, that's under £100 for a day out on the trains, and you can come back all year if you want. That compares very nicely with the cost of a day trip to, say, Blackpool Pleasure Beach.

It's not cheap, but steam trains aren't cheap to run either. I'd say it was pretty good value, even if you don't use the annual pass again.

 

[12LDA28C]

Went to Severn Valley Railway, walk up ticket is £32 rail rover pass, on 1940s event it's £40.

If you pay in advance you may get it a little bit cheaoer then you get £2 booking fee so you may gain £4 savings on walk up tickets.


I thought it was a touch on the steep side.

£32 ÷16 miles is about £2 per mileat the cheaper walk up price.


Which railway do you consider to be good value per mile ?

If your £32 ticket was a 'rail rover pass' as you suggest, presumably that is valid all day for multiple journeys and not just one return journey of the line. On that basis, your '£2 per mile' calculation is incorrect as even making two full returns of the line will halve your cost per mile to £1. Maybe your cost-per-mile measurement should be based on the maximum mileage available from your day rover ticket? This could be three, four, five or more trips depending on the length of the line and the timetable on the day.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Jul 2024 ==

Of course if you purchase a day rover ticket, and the timetable has several trains, then the cost per mile will be quite a lot less. I'm sure a dedicated "train basher" could get over 100 miles per day quite easily on several railways.

Exactly this.

 

[Sheldonian]

Dont like, but understand reasons for the higher prices.
I guess that each line is teying to be creative in an effort to make ends meet and all have different ideas.
If you are looking for some sort of justification, i would say that although appreciating the expense for a family, £50 compares well to the cost of a ticket to a top flight football match and that only lasts 90 minutes.
If you are able to revisit two or three tines (and appreciate that many wont) then that price does start to look like a bargain.