Most Disappointing Rolling Stock.

[yorksrob]

I'm not talking about services where you know the carriage is going to be bad. We all know a Voyager is probably going to be a disappointing experience.

I'm talking about where you expect the service to be better.

For me, it's Electrostars with the crappy high density layout. Nasty thin seats that mainly line up with the pillars rather than the windows. I don't mind the ones where the crappy layout is only in the middle two carriages but with decent seating in the outer two so much.

To cap it all, the windows don't appear to have seen a carriage washer since David Cameron was Prime Minister.

 

[mmh]

Merseyrail 777s. I think I had quite high expectations as back when they were ordered the forum was full of positivity and praise for how good Stadler trains were. Sadly when they turned up, they turned out to be awful.

 

[43096]

I'm not talking about services where you know the carriage is going to be bad. We all know a Voyager is probably going to be a disappointing experience.

I'm talking about where you expect the service to be better.

For me, it's Electrostars with the crappy high density layout. Nasty thin seats that mainly line up with the pillars rather than the windows. I don't mind the ones where the crappy layout is only in the middle two carriages but with decent seating in the outer two so much.

To cap it all, the windows don't appear to have seen a carriage washer since David Cameron was Prime Minister.

80x units. They are nowhere near the standard required for a long distance train.

 

[AndrewP]

New Tyne and Wear Metro trains - if Poundland did trains!

 

[Calderdale Ian]

LNER Azumas . Externally they look fantastic but inside they are shockingly poor . I travelled from King's Cross to Leeds on 800113 on Wednesday in bucket class . It was like having a metal bar across the bum , the seats are almost unusable they are so uncomfortable. Sat at a table in coach C I slouched forward to get ahead of the solid bar across the centre of the seat ; I couldn't imagine the discomfort of travelling for 6 or 7 hours on a busy Aberdeen or Inverness service . The alignment of the seats is pretty decent , it's just the lack of padding and overall comfort on a long distance train. You have the soulless interior which goes for almost all newish trains....if you've been on one Azuma,195,700 etc you've been on them all .
The Azumas are very stark , bland and too brightly lit : and the ride quality is terrible, try drinking at 100mph plus over a set of points ....when I have a drink on the train I'm often thinking ah there's a set of points coming up , wait until we're over before lifting cup !
Travelling by train used to be a pleasure when you had a loco on the front ; now for the most part it's simply a means of getting from A to B .

 

[Parallel]

If I am honest, the 195/196/197 fleet. Clearly they were always going to be on the basic side with regional routes rarely being a primary focus after long distance high-speed and local area services get much of the political focus. The seats are uncomfortable, particularly on Northern and TfW, and the ride quality is terrible. Northern has the excuse that they are mostly confined to shorter distance routes by nature of their network but they mostly work long distance services in Wales, and the spec for them is so poor, in my opinion, for a train where passengers spend considerable time on board. And to top it off, some have a section for standard plus which can’t be used due to not meeting accessibility requirements, so is permanently declassified, and the units also have a large, unused food preparation galley physically IN the passenger saloon. The basics haven't been met, before you get to the poor/non-existent implementation of the ‘extras’!

 

[lxfe_mxtterz]

Perhaps a controversial one, and by no means the most disappointing rolling stock going, but I find the Avanti Evero fleet really quite underwhelming, especially when compared to the existing Pendolinos.

Whilst it's no doubt they're the better of the bad bunch that is IETs, I just can't warm to them. It's not something I can put my finger on but they just feel a lot cheaper, blander and poorer quality than the excellent Pendolinos.

That's not to say they are inherently awful trains (as there's far worse out there), but when you look at the Pendolinos which they run on routes alongside, I just feel they could've been a lot better.

 

[tfw756rider]

Anything older than 1998 still in service (whether I have nostalgia for it or not, whether modern trains have flaws or not).

 

[DM352]

Class 700 comfort - seats feels like sitting on the front door mat.

Class 170 speed - takes a while to reach linespeed on semi fast services.

 

[LittleRedTrain]

I have to say, the Mk5As as now used on Chiltern.

They could've been a game changer in terms of modern loco-hauled rolling stock, but there are so many things that make them a worse passenger experience from the Mk3s that preceded them.

Rough riding, much smaller windows which don't align with the seats (I spent my trip this morning staring at a big blank wall), less comfortable seats in Standard.
And of course, lower capacity than a 6 car Mk3 set!

In my opinion, they're a step down from a 168, whereas a Mk3 set was definitely a step up!

The only redeeming features compared to the Mk3s is the movable arm rests, and vestibule end doors which means you don't get the squeaking, banging and draughts from the corridor connection.

 

[Crithylum]

My biggest disappointment is the Desiros (both original and city variants). Everyone says they are good (ride quality wise) but I would prefer an Aventra any day of the week. With the originals they are far too underdamped in roll, causing them to invent oscillations making me motion sick. With the Desiro Cities, I find that they have significant issues with yaw oscillations, especially at speed. IETs/Azumas have better ride quality at the same speed.

It was like having a metal bar across the bum , the seats are almost unusable they are so uncomfortable.

That is because you do have a metal bar across the bum. I've once opted to stand from Bristol to London on an IET (same seats) because they were that bad. I've also experienced Azumas with massage chairs.

 

[tfw756rider]

That is because you do have a metal bar across the bum. I've once opted to stand from Bristol to London on an IET (same seats) because they were that bad. I've also experienced Azumas with massage chairs.

What do you mean by that (bolded)?

 

[Crithylum]

What do you mean by that (bolded)?

Vibrating up and down with vigour. It mainly happened around corners.

 

[Russel]

We all know a Voyager is probably going to be a disappointing experience.

To me, Voyager hate is the same as pineapple on pizza hate, it's just a meme at this point, yes they should be a couple of carriages longer and XC haven't cleaned them since they took the Virgin logos off, but they aren't bad if you get a journey that isn't crush loaded.

I'd take a smooth, comfortable Voyager over an IET with their collapsed seats or any of the modern CAF rubbish that have the ride quality of Fred Flintstones car.

 

[AM9]

My biggest disappointment is the Desiros (both original and city variants). Everyone says they are good (ride quality wise) but I would prefer an Aventra any day of the week. With the originals they are far too underdamped in roll, causing them to invent oscillations making me motion sick. With the Desiro Cities, I find that they have significant issues with yaw oscillations, especially at speed. IETs/Azumas have better ride quality at the same speed.

That is because you do have a metal bar across the bum. I've once opted to stand from Bristol to London on an IET (same seats) because they were that bad. I've also experienced Azumas with massage chairs.

If you are going to compare the ride of a 100mph train with that of a 125mph train then it should be at the equivalent point in both trains' speed range, i.e is an 80x any better at 100mph than a 700 at 80mph, and on the same track of course. For your information, the 700s are among the best trains on poor track, e.g. the MML fasts between Silkstream Junction and Elstree. Ever since their introduction, they have ridden that section at 100mph as the 125mph capable 222s do at 100mph. The 110mph class 387s really struggled with violent lateral lurches at 100mph over that section. If an Aventra, say a 720/730 could actually run that stretch it would be interesting to compare.

 

[Ellis101]

777s with the high expectations from other Stadler units that just weren't met.

 

[Crithylum]

If you are going to compare the ride of a 100mph train with that of a 125mph train then it should be at the equivalent point in both trains' speed range, i.e is an 80x any better at 100mph than a 700 at 80mph, and on the same track of course. For your information, the 700s are among the best trains on poor track, e.g. the MML fasts between Silkstream Junction and Elstree. Ever since their introduction, they have ridden that section at 100mph as the 125mph capable 222s do at 100mph. The 110mph class 387s really struggled with violent lateral lurches at 100mph over that section. If an Aventra, say a 720/730 could actually run that stretch it would be interesting to compare.

I agree that Desiros are better at coping with poor track geometry. However, they tend to invent new "defects" on perfectly good track in my experience. Comparing 730s to 350s, I find the 350s much smoother, however, I find them intolerable do to inducing motion sickness in a way that no other train does. Also I think it is fair to compare them at the same speed, as you could put 125mph suspension on a slower train. IETs have excellent ride quality at 75mph in my experience.

 

[stadler]

British Stadler Flirt stock (745/755) is by far the biggest dissappointment for me. I love the Mainland European Stadler Flirt stock (as you can tell by my username) and find them very pleasant to travel on. But the ones in the UK are utter rubbish. They have such a horrible cramped interior layout. Everything just feels so cramped which i think is due to needing a narrower body to enable low floor access. Narrow aisles. Narrow doorway vestibules. The annoying ramps (which gets rid of the flat floor throughout the train that British trains have) going up and down the ends of the carriages. I actually much prefer a 720 (despite the awful 3+2 layout) to a 745/755 unit. I specifically waited for a 720 when i went to Ipswich and back last month.

The truth is that low floor trains do not work here. We have a much narrower loading gauge than Mainland Europe has and therefore it is impossible to make them feel spacious. They work very well in Mainland Europe because their loading gauge is huge compared to ours.

Stadler is fantastic for Mainland European trains but awful for British trains. So the 745/755 is definitely my biggest dissapointment. I also agree that the 555/777 is a huge dissapointment and both have been plagued with endless problems and awful reliability. It is odd as the Minsk Metro units are part of the same exact Stadler Metro family but yet built so much better. It also seems odd that they could not build them with a level floor throughout despite the S Stock managing it while still being low floor and at the same platform heights.

 

[brad465]

Class 377s on Southeastern: they share routes with 375s, but the 375s have a much cleaner, nicer interior and ambience. Apart from 375/9s, 375s also have nice 2+2 seating with comfy seats and arm rests, but 377s have 2+3 in half the carriages, less comfy overall and have not been refreshed in any way since SE got hold of them. If SE gave them the equivalent mid-life refurb they gave the 375s 10 years ago, I'd approve of them more.

Class 376s as well given they lack air con or alternative sufficient window ventilation and toilets. Were they not currently going through interior refurb, the review would be even worse.

 

[Harpo]

80x units. They are nowhere near the standard required for a long distance train.

80x, making 390s seem good, which in turn made original Mk3s & Mk4s look superb.

The trajectory continues & Evero’s first class ironing board seat is a new low for me and my backside. As for the wilfully perverse seating plan that puts the table for the only pair of FC single seats under a window pillar! Car manufacturers everywhere must be delighted.

 

[FrontSideBus]

Class 8**. 397. 331/19*. Mk5a.
Shockingly bad ride quality with torture device seating on 397, Mk5 and some models of 800!
397 has to be the roughest riding most uncomfortable pieces of junk to be called "Intercity" trains ever made though!
I'm wondering do the Sleeper Mk5's also have the "CAF bogie rattle"? I can't imagine getting to sleep in the end cabins if they do!

777's are also a big disappointment for too many reasons to list and 730 gets a mention for shockingly bad seats! They'd have been better off fitting reclaimed seats from the 350's IMO!

It says it all when you get onto a 25 year old Pendo after riding on Evero's for a while and think "Wow! I never realised just how good these are!" You can tell when 807's are doing MU speeds.... and not in a good way!

 

[Rab Smith]

I did a trip last year on a TfW CAF class 197 from Llandudno Junction to Blaenau Ffestiniog and commented at the time that the units are just wrong for that particular stretch of line. The ride quality was terrible to the point where I thought that these trains would develop severe problems with their wheel profiles, dampers and suspension.
Didn't have a problem with their interiors, just another brightly lit, sterile new train that is the norm with modern rolling stock.
Will also agree about the Azumas but the GWR IET's seating is a lot worse in my opinion. I did Plymouth to Paddington on one and couldn't wait to get off it.

 

[Clansman]

Definitely LNER 80X.

Designed to be modular and technologically sound yet marketed as bespoke and premium simply because they replaced the HSTs and so had to live up to the hype.

Decent trains in mechanics only. Absolutely inadequate inside, and nothing would make them suitable no matter how many times they might replace the seats, luggage racks or redesign the buffet counters in future.

Their modularity is their downfall, blame the DfT for that. Cheap, narrow, rattly and they should be nowhere near long distance intercity services in their current state.

A design that tries to do too much, which combined with the restrictions of the UK loading gauge, is not a good combination.

Hopefully they learn the lesson for future procurements.

 

[bramling]

I'm not talking about services where you know the carriage is going to be bad. We all know a Voyager is probably going to be a disappointing experience.

I'm talking about where you expect the service to be better.

For me, it's Electrostars with the crappy high density layout. Nasty thin seats that mainly line up with the pillars rather than the windows. I don't mind the ones where the crappy layout is only in the middle two carriages but with decent seating in the outer two so much.

To cap it all, the windows don't appear to have seen a carriage washer since David Cameron was Prime Minister.

What’s quite saddening about this, is it’s pretty much everything.

IET/IEP/derivatives - very underwhelming in numerous ways which are well documented. Also the Agility contract works out very expensive and inflexible. I have a feeling these trains will turn out increasingly lame duck as time goes on.

777 - again just not particularly well specified nor well executed. The GA versions come across better, but only because they compare well to what they replaced in terms of a capacity boost.

555 - not great, and for all but the shortest distance users offer an inferior experience compared to the metrocars they replace. A different seat layout would to some way to addressing this.

700 - interior way to austere, should have been specified as per first class through the whole train.

Aventra - not as nice to use as Electrostars, and dislike the longer carriages. To me they feel a step down from the 375/377/387 fleets.

 

[QSK19]

Emotionally, the 700 - having worked at Bombardier when it lost out on the Thameslink contract, it was a worrying time with the threat of redundancy hanging over us. They are a constant reminder of very troubling times. In terms of the hard product aspect, they’re bland, boring and look/feel cheap.

When taking emotion out of it, I would say the 180s. Whilst I do really like them as a train (they are what made my son fall in love with trains; and 180110 is in my avatar), the issues with them are very well known and complained about!

 

[physics34]

800 series first. Just not good enough a replacement for HSTs and Loco hauled mk2 mk3 and 4s.

700 just behind. When i heard the interior was going be basic and seats hard i thought it was going to be an exaggeration......
It definately isnt.

 

[Rail Quest]

I really dislike the 397s and are my least favourite of the CAF units. They were a bit of a downgrade from the 350s in many aspects. Their seats are terrible and the dreaded CAF ride quality is especially poor at 110mph on the WCML. At least the 195/196/331s are generally shorter routes which makes poor seating and ride quality less of a problem.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

I like the Pendolino but hate seating if that makes sense.

 

[Krystal]

345s, 710s and 720s. Living local to the lines the trains operated on, I'd rather the 315s and the 321s that preceded it on the Great Eastern.
Also frankly, the 345s are completely inadequate for the routes they travel on, not just limited to the GEML. I'd imagine on the first day of TfL Rail 345s running out to Reading, the Berkshire commuters expecting their green train would be wholly unimpressed and I don't blame them.
The 720s and their 3x2 seating, don't @ me, I'd rather 321s, 360s and the 357s (which is why c2c is the better railway to go to Southend anyways!!!)
The 710s are probably the worst offender. It gets so hot during the summer, the PIS is horrible (a different story altogether) and the seats are appalling. Sure they're only designed for short hops, such as Liv Street to Enfield, but what about longer journeys such as Richmond to Stratford or Euston to Watford? Come on now.

 

[yorksrob]

What’s quite saddening about this, is it’s pretty much everything.

IET/IEP/derivatives - very underwhelming in numerous ways which are well documented. Also the Agility contract works out very expensive and inflexible. I have a feeling these trains will turn out increasingly lame duck as time goes on.

777 - again just not particularly well specified nor well executed. The GA versions come across better, but only because they compare well to what they replaced in terms of a capacity boost.

555 - not great, and for all but the shortest distance users offer an inferior experience compared to the metrocars they replace. A different seat layout would to some way to addressing this.

700 - interior way to austere, should have been specified as per first class through the whole train.

Aventra - not as nice to use as Electrostars, and dislike the longer carriages. To me they feel a step down from the 375/377/387 fleets.

I think that for me, I always associate the Electrostars with being nice, comfy trains, so when one turns up with a bad interior, I feel the disappointment more keenly.